Most Overrated TMNT Character?

[Prowler]

Despite her being an interesting character, I don't think Mona Lisa deserves the cult following she has.

Originally Posted by chrisdude

I would love to see Bebop and Rocksteady reimagined in a more serious light, so they can be given some depth. I don't see why people love them so much, now. They're funny. Cool...

Honestly, while we're at it, someone should try to make Venus less lame.

Bebop and Rocksteady were popular because of their looks and their hilarious stupidity. They were never meant to be serious characters and I have no interest in seeing a serious version of them.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

I would love to see Bebop and Rocksteady reimagined in a more serious light, so they can be given some depth. I don't see why people love them so much, now. They're funny. Cool...

Honestly, while we're at it, someone should try to make Venus less lame.

The problem with Venus was that she was the gimmicky 5th ninja turtle character. If I could fix her, I would change her backstory and point out that she have no relation and no connection to the day that the turtles were change by the ooze. Her only connection was that she was mutated like everyone else. I wouldn't even make her a ninja (either a shaman or kung fu martial artist from China) or even same type of turtle. Slash is sometimes a snapping turtle or some other form of species so she should be a sea turtle or tortois

[Donatello19]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

The problem with Venus was that she was the gimmicky 5th ninja turtle character. If I could fix her, I would change her backstory and point out that she have no relation and no connection to the day that the turtles were change by the ooze. Her only connection was that she was mutated like everyone else. I wouldn't even make her a ninja (either a shaman or kung fu martial artist from China) or even same type of turtle. Slash is sometimes a snapping turtle or some other form of species so she should be a sea turtle or tortois

Agreed. She should have no connection to the turtles. MAYBE if that was the case, people wouldn't mind her too much. Also instead of her being a part of the team, she could just be an ally that helps on occasion, like Leatherhead.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Slash. Could have been an awesome character if not so stupid, looking for a palmtree.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Slash. Could have been an awesome character if not so stupid, looking for a palmtree.

Read Archie's Slash. The awesome character is exactly what you get....

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The joke was that Shredder and Krang were incompetent villains, and they would constantly fail no matter how many times they tried to take over the Earth. Its how shows were written back then.

The joke was that Shredder and Krang were an old married couple, with Shredder the hen-pecked husband and Krang the nagging wife.

Seriously, though, to get on-topic... mileage may vary, but by my definition, to be "overrated" someone/thing should have had a fairly substantial or semi-recurring role in the mythology, be fondly remembered by more than a few, while at the same time having lots of potential that for some reason was never realized. Since some fairly popular characters who others have named only appeared once or twice, like Mona Lisa, they don't fit my personal criteria, since their popularity can be more attributed to "I liked that character's potential, and would like to have maybe seen them explored further" rather than simply being overrated, since they weren't even given a chance to become over-played or whatever. But again, everyone's personal definition will vary on that one, I'd rather stick to main or semi-main characters in order to be "overrated", especially the MOST overrated of all.

I have to agree with those who say Raphael. As a Leo fan, I admit being biased a little bit, but they're really more like the TMNT versions of Superman and Batman than anything: More similar to each other than either is comfortable admitting, each having similar goals, wants and desires but choosing to express themselves in entirely opposite ways, one is "dark" while one is "light", etc. That's how I've always seen Leo and Raph, anyway.

I like them both a lot, but at times, I've been a little perplexed and annoyed by how rabid some of Raphael's fans can be. It's a lot of the same thing with rabid Batman/Wolverine/Spawn fans: "dark" and "angry" doesn't necessarily equal "character development", and while there are plenty of good to great stories with those characters to go around (Well, except Spawn... never, ever Spawn), most people who say they identify with one or the other character almost always says some variation of "I can really relate to being a dark, angry loner"... which really says more about that individual than the characters, honestly.

I don't want to sound like a basher, because I absolutely know the next step is a bunch of "Leonardo is the most overrated character because __________" posts (although I have to argue he can't be, because his popularity is probably muniscule compared to Raph and Mikey, and maybe a little greater than Donnie's). I do like Raphael. He's probably my second favorite Turtle. But as I've pointed out elsewhere, in most versions, Raph only has one storyline: The one where he's angry all the time for no reason, sometimes psychotically so (remember that early Mirage issue where it seemed like he was actually going to kill Mikey for no damn reason? WTF was that about?). And he never really evolves past this. I mean, even in Mirage, the so-called "canon"... almost 30 years of stories, and despite being turned into some kind of dinosaur monster by the end, Raphael was the exact same character as when he started. Angry, violent, and pretty unlikable really.

Granted, he was entirely different in the original cartoon, but since a lot of his jokes fell flat and at times his constant sarcasm and fourth wall-breaking made him even more annoying than Mikey (IMO), I can't entirely say it was an improvement, just "different". But that leads into another reason I don't think Mona Lisa, for example, was overrated, because at least that episode gave Raphael something different to do for a change, and the same can be said for Ninjara in the Archie series. One could argue Mona Lisa and Ninjara are both overrated because they weren't around much and yet have fairly enthusiastic fan support, but I'd argue that is negated by the fact that each one had a turn at making a somewhat one-dimensional main character briefly more interesting. Since that was the entire point of their creation, and they each succeeded to a point, I can't say either should be overrated per se; but since those stories were almost the only time we saw Raphael act any different at all from what we always see, I could easily argue that he himself is.

He's just a walking ball of rage. I have my own theory that it's because the rest of the Turtles each get practical, useful weapons and he gets stuck with over-sized salad forks, but that's neither here nor there. He's pretty one-note either way. All four of them are, to various degrees, but since he's the most popular despite having no more depth than a character in a Steven Seagal movie, I'd honestly have to say he's the most over-rated character.

Splinter comes in second for me; despite his importance to the mythology, 99% of the time he's just a living fortune cookie, Mr. Miyagi with fur. Most of the time he might as well be in a wheelchair; rarely is he required to do anything other than lecture, chastise, encourage, or give exposition through his dialog. He doesn't even have to move, let alone fight anyone. Plus, in Mirage he's kind of a prick, raising the Turtles and training them for the sole purpose of killing his blood enemy from decades ago. Think about it, Shredder must have felt like the wife in Jaws: The Revenge when he realized that the PET RAT of someone he killed ages ago had somehow come back for revenge. Pretty much Splinter's most memorable arc in the comics was being played for a chump by the Rat King. He got a little more to do in the original cartoon, but just barely. I've never really "bought" this crusty old rat having been able to physically teach the kind of stuff that the Turtles are seen doing all the time; not when the quickest he ever moves is turning off his soap operas when the guys get home.

So those are my picks: Raphael (too much angst for no real reason, his character never evolves) and Splinter (Says lots, does little) are the most overrated in my opinion, because despite being heavily-featured main cast players with large fanbases, they don't really do much on their own to earn it. Feel free to disagree.

[Jester]

See, that's just it Leo. You're right, it's all subjective, because for me "overrated" is a minor character that seems to be loved beyond what's due a 1 episode appearance and a figure.

[cryan]

[QUOTE=Prowler;1122242]Despite her being an interesting character, I don't think Mona Lisa deserves the cult following she has.


Well Playmates made a figure of her. Though a bit different in appearance but still.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

That's exactly why I chose Krang- Basically, he was like Splinter- says a lot, but spends most of his time watching soaps and fussing at Shredder without doing much himself. He may have been the "brains" of their operation, but since most of his schemes fell flat, that's not saying much. And even his android body seemed a bit over-rated. He had all this tech, and could build those Foot robots to perform fighting skills, and yet he couldn't make the thing a little less clunky and clumsy?!

[Leo656]

Jester, I get ya. To me, it still reads different. Probably because of most of those types of "Overrated" characters, every one of their fans would call them "underrated": lots of possible potential, but never fully realized. And they'd have a legitimate point. Mona Lisa, for example, could be called "overrated" because little in her one appearance seems to justify her having many fans, but on the flip side, if she had only had more episodes she could theoretically have become one of the most popular characters on the show, given time. We'll never know for sure how that would have gone, obviously, but the potential could easily lead others to argue she was an underrated rather than overrated character.

So yeah, it's all subjective, and depends greatly on the individual's definition of "overrated". When coming up with who I consider the MOST overrated, my definition throws out automatically any characters who could be equally argued as both overrated AND underrated. I also avoided supporting cast; something in me just feels like the MOST overrated has to be a main hero or villain character. Raph is generally the most popular Turtle and Splinter is essentially the series's Yoda, so it's safe to say neither can be UNDERrated. I honestly don't think Krang is anywhere near as popular as some other characters, so his general uselessness gets a pass.

But everyone applying their own definition leads to a wider range of answers, which is nice. If I was going into the supporting cast I could make long arguments for why the Neutrinos, Irma and even April are overrated. But I'll save that for another time.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Leo656

The joke was that Shredder and Krang were an old married couple, with Shredder the hen-pecked husband and Krang the nagging wife.

Seriously, though, to get on-topic... mileage may vary, but by my definition, to be "overrated" someone/thing should have had a fairly substantial or semi-recurring role in the mythology, be fondly remembered by more than a few, while at the same time having lots of potential that for some reason was never realized. Since some fairly popular characters who others have named only appeared once or twice, like Mona Lisa, they don't fit my personal criteria, since their popularity can be more attributed to "I liked that character's potential, and would like to have maybe seen them explored further" rather than simply being overrated, since they weren't even given a chance to become over-played or whatever. But again, everyone's personal definition will vary on that one, I'd rather stick to main or semi-main characters in order to be "overrated", especially the MOST overrated of all.

I have to agree with those who say Raphael. As a Leo fan, I admit being biased a little bit, but they're really more like the TMNT versions of Superman and Batman than anything: More similar to each other than either is comfortable admitting, each having similar goals, wants and desires but choosing to express themselves in entirely opposite ways, one is "dark" while one is "light", etc. That's how I've always seen Leo and Raph, anyway.

I like them both a lot, but at times, I've been a little perplexed and annoyed by how rabid some of Raphael's fans can be. It's a lot of the same thing with rabid Batman/Wolverine/Spawn fans: "dark" and "angry" doesn't necessarily equal "character development", and while there are plenty of good to great stories with those characters to go around (Well, except Spawn... never, ever Spawn), most people who say they identify with one or the other character almost always says some variation of "I can really relate to being a dark, angry loner"... which really says more about that individual than the characters, honestly.

I don't want to sound like a basher, because I absolutely know the next step is a bunch of "Leonardo is the most overrated character because __________" posts (although I have to argue he can't be, because his popularity is probably muniscule compared to Raph and Mikey, and maybe a little greater than Donnie's). I do like Raphael. He's probably my second favorite Turtle. But as I've pointed out elsewhere, in most versions, Raph only has one storyline: The one where he's angry all the time for no reason, sometimes psychotically so (remember that early Mirage issue where it seemed like he was actually going to kill Mikey for no damn reason? WTF was that about?). And he never really evolves past this. I mean, even in Mirage, the so-called "canon"... almost 30 years of stories, and despite being turned into some kind of dinosaur monster by the end, Raphael was the exact same character as when he started. Angry, violent, and pretty unlikable really.

Granted, he was entirely different in the original cartoon, but since a lot of his jokes fell flat and at times his constant sarcasm and fourth wall-breaking made him even more annoying than Mikey (IMO), I can't entirely say it was an improvement, just "different". But that leads into another reason I don't think Mona Lisa, for example, was overrated, because at least that episode gave Raphael something different to do for a change, and the same can be said for Ninjara in the Archie series. One could argue Mona Lisa and Ninjara are both overrated because they weren't around much and yet have fairly enthusiastic fan support, but I'd argue that is negated by the fact that each one had a turn at making a somewhat one-dimensional main character briefly more interesting. Since that was the entire point of their creation, and they each succeeded to a point, I can't say either should be overrated per se; but since those stories were almost the only time we saw Raphael act any different at all from what we always see, I could easily argue that he himself is.

He's just a walking ball of rage. I have my own theory that it's because the rest of the Turtles each get practical, useful weapons and he gets stuck with over-sized salad forks, but that's neither here nor there. He's pretty one-note either way. All four of them are, to various degress, but since he's the most popular despite having no more depth than a character in a Steven Seagal movie, I'd honestly have to say he's the most over-rated character.

Splinter comes in second for me; despite his importance to the mythology, 99% of the time he's just a living fortune cookie, Mr. Miyagi with fur. Most of the time he might as well be in a wheelchair; rarely is he required to do anything other than lecture, chastise, encourage, or give exposition through his dialog. He doesn't even have to move, let alone fight anyone. Plus, in Mirage he's kind of a prick, raising the Turtles and training them for the sole purpose of killing his blood enemy from decades ago. Think about it, Shredder must have felt like the wife in Jaws: The Revenge when he realized that the PET RAT of someone he killed ages ago had somehow come back for revenge. Pretty much Splinter's most memorable arc in the comics was being played for a chump by the Rat King. He got a little more to do in the original cartoon, but just barely. I've never really "bought" this crusty old rat having been able to physically teach the kind of stuff that the Turtles are seen doing all the time; not when the quickest he ever moves is turning off his soap operas when the guys get home.

So those are my picks: Raphael (too much angst for no real reason, his character never evolves) and Splinter (Says lots, does little) are the most overrated in my opinion, because despite being heavily-featured main cast players with large fanbases, they don't really do much on their own to earn it. Feel free to disagree.

You sure have some stones there, sir.

[Leo656]

Brother, I'm the Patron Saint of Unpopular Opinions. I loved "Superman Returns". I'm on Axl's side. I hate The Rock. "Young Guns" is my favorite movie of all time. I think "Chinese Democracy" is brilliant. I'm a Hogan fan. I love the "Masters of the Universe" movie. Kevin Nash is my Real Dad. Emilio Estevez is the greatest actor ever to walk the Earth. I sort of run against the grain, generally speaking.

And I like Raphael. A lot. But he's probably the most overrated character of the main cast. Mostly because he's essentially popular just for being Wolverine without actually being Wolverine. That doesn't make him "bad".

[The Big Bad]

I'm going to go and say The Shredder: I've recently concluded that the core concept of the character is rather uninteresting outside of his design, and that therefore some external element needs to be added before he is made worthwhile.

I mean, why is the Mirage Shredder memorable? Not because anything he did, necessarily, but because he died, and that death led to interesting stories. Fred Wolf Shredder? He's funny and whiny and incompetent, and has great chemistry with his fellow evildoers. Ch'rell? He was an Utrom, a father, genocidal, none of which were things any other version of the character possessed and which helped make him way more fun than he had a right to be. (Okay, so Image Shredder was technically a father, but he was also dead.)

Take away those additional elements, and he becomes a rather standard villain. The Shredder is my least favorite character in the original film, and I don't think it's a coincidence that he's more or less faithful to the original.

As for the takes on the character since Nick's takeover, they've felt more or less equally uninteresting, in part because the writers seem to expect me to find the character awesome despite evidence to the contrary. The cartoon version has kicked the turtles' asses, but hey, so did Mirage's version, and that didn't make him interesting; aside from that, he's empty, and while we haven't seen a whole lot of him, I don't really care to see more, either. Meanwhile, while the IDW version has lots of added elements, none seem to overtake the fact that the character feels incompetent--not in the intentional way the Fred Wolf version was, but incompetent because the writers can't figure out how to make him otherwise (time has not made the "let's recruit Leo to be my successor" any less stupid). What's more, both versions have neglected to give him an inner life: he's all about being bad and abusive, which makes both versions dreadfully boring. Granted, they're following the template set by the original, but that's the problem: the original wasn't terribly good.

[Bauer536]

Big Bad - I understand how you feel about the Shredder. Sometimes he is just empty because of how evil he is. But, I still have to disagree on an extent. I don't think he's boring, and according to fans, he's badass. I love it. He's the Lex Luthor to the turtles. Yet, if you're gonna give your opinions, maybe give something positive with that. I mean, do you always have to be so negative in your posts?

Other than that - the most overrated character, to me, would be Hun. I never thought he was that cool. It was pretty much the stereotypical muscular guy that worked for Shredder. I didn't want that. However, we're getting that with Dogpound (who is way cooler). Still, I miss Tatsu. That's probably another reason why I didn't like Hun so much.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I actually LIKED Hun. He had an interesting backstory that tied him to Casey, he had personality outside of being Shredder's head-goon, and he led the Purple Dragons as his own thing, so he had that going for him. He also turns out to be an avid gamer with an on-line game persona that Mikey is actually jealous/afraid of, LOL! And his loyalty and dedication (rescuing Karai even though she was basically his replacement) was cool. To me, Baxter was more overrated in that series, due to how many times he (almost) died. Seriously, when were they gonna' just put him out of his misery? It was almost like a running joke in the show- "How many times can we (pretend to) kill off Baxter?" It got old after a while.

[Leo656]

I liked Baxter's eternal torment on that show. For some reason I found it darkly humorous that his entire life was a walking nightmare. Whatever kept him from chewing through his tongue and offing himself, I will never know.

Actually, his life pretty much sucked in the Fred Wolf show, too, from an entirely different direction. Baxter Stockman: The Universe's Bitch in every single TMNT Universe. I kinda like that.

[RaphAndDonnie]

No matter how much I like the character I have to say Mona Lisa. She was great in "Raph Meets His Match" but the large following always confused me. I also want to say Lotus Blossom, even though it doesn't seem like she has the biggest fan base.

[Leo656]

Is Mona Lisa really that popular, though? She's very obscure. I never see her mentioned outside the 'Drome, and even that's rare.

Feel free to correct me, though. I just always assumed she didn't have a big following.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by RaphAndDonnie

No matter how much I like the character I have to say Mona Lisa. She was great in "Raph Meets His Match" but the large following always confused me. I also want to say Lotus Blossom, even though it doesn't seem like she has the biggest fan base.

Probably because the quota of "sexy ninja chick" is already out filled by Karai in most incarnations of TMNT.

[Leo656]

Didn't Lotus predate Karai, though? Wasn't Lotus's first appearance earlier than Karai's?

It's interesting that, despite being so similar, Karai seemingly took the place of Lotus in the overall mythology. Maybe not directly, as I know they're not meant to be the same character, but "in spirit".