Does Splinter seem a bit... incompetent?

[Bauer536]

It was just in ONE episode, people. Just because his intention for the weapons lesson was stupid, it doesn't mean he's an incompetent sensei. So he made a mistake. Big deal. At least he still manages to be right. Besides, even the turtles have made mistakes, but none of them are really incompetent.

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

That is a ridiculously naive statement. So parents are by default right to do what they'd do with their children; even in the case where if they had their druthers, the children wouldn't exist? Wrong. I bet you still believe Santa is real, too.

Also, it's easy for us adults to say yeah; Splinter's heart is in the right place even if his head isn't, we admire his ends, if not his means, and being more fallible makes him more fun--but what of the intended demographic? As I said before in my thread about this, they need to make sure they provide a positive model for children to follow, and that means when Splinter seriously goofs, even if they have to throw in some "and knowing is half the battle" segments, they need to point out to children that Splinter was wrong. Do that, and they'd go right from annoying me to getting my immense respect. "Authorities are not always right" is a great lesson to teach children, and there's plenty room to teach that here, and April sort of did, but I wish they did more. If Splinter continues to have stupid ideas, then the need for him to be shown up for that increases.

Uh, no, I don't believe in Santa, thank you very much. What I meant by that is that parents do make mistakes, but they do know more than their children, and they are mostly right in the lessons they impart to their children. I don't think his technique was sound, but the lesson he was trying to impart WAS right in that anything can be a weapon and the Turtles will have to adapt to that. That was what I was trying to say.

[bridgegrn]

The entire point of the weapons switch was to drill it into their heads that it shouldn't matter what weapons they have. They need to be ready and effective no matter what. The turtles failed that lesson because they got caught up in their weapons to the point where it affected them in a crucial fight. Then they bragged about it when they deliberately disobeyed him. If I was Splinter I'd be rip **** too. And as proven during the final fight during the episode, it didn't matter what weapons they had, they can get the job done just as well.

I like this Splinter. He doesn't have all the answers but he does what he can and freely admits when he is wrong (a crucial aspect being him confessing that there was a flaw in the way he taught them to fight that lies squarely on him.) He's tough, no nonsense but he cares and he's balancing the father aspect and the teacher aspect the best that he can. I dig it.

[saber16]

Honestly, I don't see the problem with the weapon switch exercise.

The turtles were getting cocky, so Splinter decided to make them put their money where their mouths were and made them switch. It wasn't strict, idiotic or cruel, it was a lesson. He doesn't want his sons to let their egos get the better of them, and likewise- What if they find themselves forced to use a weapon they're not familiar with to fight for their lives? He'd rather them learn first hand while the supply of Foot soldiers were on the weaker side rather than later.

Next, they chose to abandon Splinter's instructions. Not because they were being overwhelmed by foot, but because they were getting frustrated with these new rules.

... Then they carelessly showboated in front of Splinter about how awesome they were again, not learning a thing. He tried going easy on them, they disobeyed him, so now the gloves come off and lets them know he's not messing around.

Now, this where I hear the complaint, "How could he let them go weaponless on a mission to stop the Foot who were armed with Mutagen?"

The Turtles never told him. He didn't know anything about them using Timothy to spy on the Foot, or anything of that.
And the lack of weapons thing was never an issue anyway. The moment they got their, they were able to make temporary weapons to fight off the enemy and held their own nicely.

[Konchadunga]

You still don't it; do you? Priorities! The Turtles may have needed a lesson, but more than that, the world needed saving. Splinter was willing to risk the world for his own ego!

Also, I'd point out Splinter's hypocritical in this regard, because if he truly wanted to teach them that "What weapon you're using doesn't matter," then he should have, and could have done that starting on day one; he should never have allowed the Turtles to choose a preferred weapon to begin with. Years of cross-disciplinary training would have been far better for that than one cram-session.

[Gonstead]

Exactly!

A better method of training would have been "You will be allowed to be trained with a specific weapon of your choosing but you must also be trained in how to use other weapons in case it is unusable."

If this skill is such a basic move for a ninja to learn, Splinter obviously hasn't done a good enough job in actually teaching said basics.

[Shark_Blade]

They're ninjas, they must adapt to changes to survive. And they did.

No biggie.

[bridgegrn]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

You still don't it; do you? Priorities! The Turtles may have needed a lesson, but more than that, the world needed saving. Splinter was willing to risk the world for his own ego!

Also, I'd point out Splinter's hypocritical in this regard, because if he truly wanted to teach them that "What weapon you're using doesn't matter," then he should have, and could have done that starting on day one; he should never have allowed the Turtles to choose a preferred weapon to begin with. Years of cross-disciplinary training would have been far better for that than one cram-session.

You still don't get it man. The weapons they have should not have mattered! There was no reason why they should have been out of their elements. They can fight with anything or nothing and still get the job done. The turtles were too short sighted to understand that. And Splinter was proven right by the end of the episode.

And do you not even remember that Splinter addressed that in the first episode that he made the mistake of originally training them as individuals? So it makes sense that they each had extensive training using a prefered weapon. Obviously the parameters of their training is different now because the reality of their lives are different now so change is necessary for success. There is no longer time for preferance. The fact is they are at war now and have to be prepared and ready to go. Besides, wasn't the weapons switch before the evil deed of the day came to their attention? And he took their weapons after walking in on them bragging about beating up bad guys while ignoring his lesson forcing them to realize,that the weapons do-not-matter, unless you allow yourself the mistake of thinking that it does matter.

[BubblyShell22]

If Splinter had known about the Foot or anything of that nature, I doubt he would have taken their weapons away. However, he didn't know what was going on and merely saw that his sons were not learning the lesson he was trying to teach them and that they deliberately disobeyed him by not using the weapons he asked them to. When kids disobey, they're punished, and that's what Splinter did. The Turtles still managed to win and do it with other weapons in the process, which was the point of the lesson.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

They're ninjas, they must adapt to changes to survive. And they did.

No biggie.

No biggie, thay almost died

[Lord Nightwalker]

So far, No. He dose not come across inept to me.

[Shark_Blade]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

No biggie, thay almost died

They almost died in most battles, but they didnt.

[saber16]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

No biggie, thay almost died

Really? you mean when Timothy mutated himself and attacked them? Yeah, bad Splinter, BAD! Or when Dogpound set the place to blow up? Splinter's fault, man. Or when they could have easily gotten out of their on their own, but stayed behind till the last second to save Timothy? Man, if they had their weapons, none of that would have happened! Damn you, Splinter!

The turtles were not helpless at any point. The lack of weapons taught them to improvise. Splinter is teaching them NOT to rely on their weapons and broaden their perspective. If anything, their problem was less about being armed and more about feeling naked without their established methods of fighting.

[bridgegrn]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

No biggie, thay almost died

What's your point? Everytime they fight they are at risk of being killed! Splinter's lesson helps them because now they know they have to be ready and able to fight under any circumstances.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by saber16

Really? you mean when Timothy mutated himself and attacked them? Yeah, bad Splinter, BAD! Or when Dogpound set the place to blow up? Splinter's fault, man. Or when they could have easily gotten out of their on their own, but stayed behind till the last second to save Timothy? Man, if they had their weapons, none of that would have happened! Damn you, Splinter!

The turtles were not helpless at any point. The lack of weapons taught them to improvise. Splinter is teaching them NOT to rely on their weapons and broaden their perspective. If anything, their problem was less about being armed and more about feeling naked without their established methods of fighting.

Still though, not having weapons is a dumb move, I like this Splinter but I will admit if he screwed up or not

[bridgegrn]

Dude you would have failed the lesson lol. Ninja Turtles with weapons can be just as dangerous as Ninja Turtles without weapons (or Ninja Turtles without signature weapons). All they have to do is be able to think outside the box and adapt as needed.

[Coola Yagami]

The problem is they don't. They obviously suck hard unarmed. And when they got makeshift weapons they still grabbed things that are too similar to what they have. Why not have mikey grab the broom or crowbar. Why not have don find a knife. Etc etc

[Technogeek29]

The Free Comic Book Day version handled the weapon switch better "IMO" Heck Mikey had an awesome moment the last few panels.

[saber16]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Still though, not having weapons is a dumb move, I like this Splinter but I will admit if he screwed up or not

... They did have weapons. "Anything's a weapon."

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

The problem is they don't. They obviously suck hard unarmed. And when they got makeshift weapons they still grabbed things that are too similar to what they have. Why not have mikey grab the broom or crowbar. Why not have don find a knife. Etc etc

Splinter said improvise. He said use anything as weapon, he didn't say how.

[Bossa Nova]

Originally Posted by saber16

... They did have weapons. "Anything's a weapon."


Splinter said improvise. He said use anything as weapon, he didn't say how.

Problem is, you can tell someone to do just about anything. It doesn't mean they're going to know how, especially their first time around, and especially if they're under stress because they're in a situation that could cost them their life. Sure, these guys have been training a better portion of their lives, but that doesn't make them martial art geniuses that can pick up a new technique at the drop of a hat. ALL new techniques take much practice, and throwing them into the fray and "forcing" them to learn on the spot is just stupid.