Why are people getting mad at Michael Bay?

[Walkabout]

I was right into Larry Hama's Marvel GI JOE comics as a kid, he did a fantastic job of it IMO (until the 120's or so) considering what he had to work with...they could have made a brilliant movie(s) from some of those stories.

Im glad you enjoyed the first film, you may possibly enjoy the second (I still got a kick out of seeing HISS tanks and Cobra Commander) but it suffers from that stupid thing where for example the Cobra Mercenary Firefly uses little fireflies as a weapon

[Tazi]

Look, they revealed the first in-movie shot of General Schrader:

Spoiler:

[sgtfbomb]

Those GI Joe movies were godawful. The second is even dumber than the first. The only thing to like about it is the casting of the Rock and the fact that the action was a bit more grounded (i.e. none of that hoppy, bouncy, zoom through a train horse crap -- I'll buy that stuff more with Ninja Turtles, but I do hope the fighting is slightly more grounded, with a bit more realistic weight, gravity, and physics). Still, with the costume of the Cobra Commander, the dialogue, plotting -- Retaliation is comparable to the Street Fighter movie from the 90s.

The GI Joe movies (and the latter two Transformer films) are precisely what I fear this Ninja Turtles film might be.

Somebody made a comment in another thread about "checking your brain at the door." Umm, I don't know about anybody else, but I just naturally find these films unbearable, without even trying to think.

[Leo656]

No idea, I genuinely like the first one. It's cheesy, but I expected that. Maybe it's because I wasn't the most religious of G.I. Joe fans; I watched it but never really got "into" it as heavy as some. My wife, on the other hand, has always been huge into it and she also loved the first movie.

I agree that I don't want a TMNT movie to have the same style or tone, it should be a completely different thing.

[Jester]

That's what kinda scares me about the Turtle movie. I didn't mind either of the GI Joe movies (but I wasn't a huge fan of the series). I thought the 1st Transformers flick was ok, the sequels were abysmal (but I was never a huge fan of Transformers either.)

BUT Turtles....that's MY childhood brand. I know there's no "raping my childhood" because as soon as I watch this movie I could easily play my DVD of Barron's Turtle film and feel great again, but I'm sure my love for Turtles will make this painful.

The closest I think I can to how this will effect me the Abram's Trek films....though I didn't mind the 1st. Wrath of Khan 2 on the other hand just made me long for Ricardo Montalbán.

[Powder]

I've never really suffered through an adored franchise being bastardized before myself, but I don't think I'd go on the same type of hate campaign that Transformers fans did. I may be just as mad, but there's no use in going on about it. As crappy as many changes may be, I understand the reasons behind them (mostly) and I'm fully aware there's nothing we can do about it. Like Jester said, something new that sucks isn't going to undo all the great stuff that came before it. But then again I'm one of those turtles fans who likes everything, right down to TNM & COOTS, so I'm sure I can find redeemable qualities even in a crapfest of a flick.

[CyberCubed]

This movie sounds like it will join Next Mutation as the worst TMNT product ever.

[Powder]

If you think Project Blue Line, Getting Down In Your Town, and various other low budget wacky videos are better than TNM, you're outta yer gourd.

[sgtfbomb]

The Next Mutation sucks. I mean, it really, really sucks. The new movie might not be all that great, but it couldn't be as bad as that.

Really, one of the biggest things I'm concerned about is the director. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Beginning was bad. What I've heard about Wrath of the Titans wasn't too much better.

[Powder]

It was a very successful program that many kids in the demographic loved at that time. It doesn't suck, you just dislike it.

[sgtfbomb]

Originally Posted by Powder

It was a very successful program that many kids in the demographic loved at that time. It doesn't suck, you just dislike it.

Demographics and generalized "well, people liked it" comments are pretty weak defenses, and neither seem to apply. I mean, successful? It was a fart in the wind, lasting only one season, just over 20 episodes, and barely anyone outside of the fanbase (which isn't exactly a majority of the population) and niche internet communities seem to even remember this show ever existed. That's a very loose interpretation of successful. Besides, I was in that demographic at the time, as well as my friends and other kids at school, and none of them liked it. Many people like many things. Name something and there are people who like it. Doesn't make it good.

[Powder]

Your justifications for why it "sucked" are objectively no more valid than what I said, you know.

[Jester]

Don't take this the wrong way Powder, I just know you're younger than me, how old were you when NT:TMN aired? I know by then I was in my early teens, still collecting the figures (which were awesome) but we didn't get the show where I was at the time. All I saw of it was East Meets West: The Movie and it wasn't bad...but then again I wasn't too choosy...TURTLES! AWESOME!! That said, I actually finally watched the whole of it on Netflix and I couldn't find much to praise. But then again, I was outside the demographic...and it was edited (how much we may never know.)

That said, is it just a "fan rumor" is there truth to the story that NT:TNM was putting Power Rangers (IN SPACE!!!) to shame in the ratings and Saban killed it so that its favored child may live?

[Leo656]

I kinda think TNM was poorly put together, partly by necessity and partly by design. I think it's a "bad show" in the textbook sense, as in the writing, acting, costumes etc. were all pretty poor-to-mediocre. BUT, that doesn't make it entirely bad or worthless in and of itself. It can absolutely still have value and enjoyment for some people.

For me, the distinction comes down to a viewer being able to objectively recognize something as flawed and choose to enjoy it anyway. I think it's important not to try and ignore something's flaws and/or pretend they don't exist, but rather appreciate what its ambitions were and recognize the effort that was made. TNM wasn't what probably any TMNT fan would have asked for, and if it was the ONLY representation of TMNT that ever existed in pop culture, it would truly be awful. As it is, it's at least something most fans can chuckle about.

I kinda feel like that about the new movie, too. It might turn out bad, but at least there's so much other TMNT stuff out there that we can just kind of shrug and disregard it if it comes to that. I mean, it'd be nice if we didn't have to, but eh.

[sgtfbomb]

Originally Posted by Powder

Your justifications for why it "sucked" are objectively no more valid than what I said, you know.

Yes, however you tried to pander your opinions with false facts, calling it successful when it clearly wasn't, as well as trying to play me off as being either too old or too young for demographic. Plus, you're getting way too touchy over something as mediocre as TNM. Seriously, who cares if someone does and doesn't like it to you?

And also, you've done very little to tell me why you like the show. All you're doing is making snarky, over-sensitive comments because someone doesn't like it. Which is silly because you've practically led yourself into this whole TNM by stating "you like anything and everything TMNT, even the crapfests," implying you mentally refuse to have any at all standards for anything TMNT, which is hardly valid enough at which to judge other's. It's not great, you just like it, and refuse to face the harsh truth that you just might be in the minority.

That said, is it just a "fan rumor" is there truth to the story that NT:TNM was putting Power Rangers (IN SPACE!!!) to shame in the ratings and Saban killed it so that its favored child may live?

I believe that really was just a rumor. In all likelihood, it was probably Fox's decision to axe the show, not Saban's. I've also heard that, believe it or not, the show was just a bit too expensive. It is possible that because the reception and ratings of the show, which I heard actually dropped towards the end, just weren't over-enthusiastic enough to make spending money on it practical.

In looking around, I'm actually shocked to find out it was #1 on FoxKids for a while. That surprises, as it was a show that no one seemed to talk about. No one really had their toys, or were mentioning at lunch, like they would Power Rangers. After hearing about it, I tried to mention it to friends, and they just seemed to wave it off. From what I gather, the show's footprint in the history of TMNT (and Saban) is nothing more than a tidbit of trivia.

[Bob]

I just find the OP's insistence on calling it TMNT Part 5 baffling.

[Xav]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I haven't seen it yet, but I liked the first one so I may enjoy the second. We haven't seen it yet because of The Rock.

What's wrong with the Rock?

[Powder]

Originally Posted by sgtfbomb

Yes, however you tried to pander your opinions with false facts, calling it successful when it clearly wasn't, as well as trying to play me off as being either too old or too young for demographic. Plus, you're getting way too touchy over something as mediocre as TNM. Seriously, who cares if someone does and doesn't like it to you?

And also, you've done very little to tell me why you like the show. All you're doing is making snarky, over-sensitive comments because someone doesn't like it. Which is silly because you've practically led yourself into this whole TNM by stating "you like anything and everything TMNT, even the crapfests," implying you mentally refuse to have any at all standards for anything TMNT, which is hardly valid enough at which to judge other's. It's not great, you just like it, and refuse to face the harsh truth that you just might be in the minority.

In looking around, I'm actually shocked to find out it was #1 on FoxKids for a while.

No false facts, you saw for yourself it was #1. The show had great ratings, it was just extremely expensive to make. Play you off...? All I'm saying is most of the people who reeeally dislike TNM were in their teens or at an age where they were transitioning into it, likely giving them a sort of bias. I was 8, I took it for what it was- TMNT at their silliest. I was bothered by Splinter's voice acting, the goofy sound effects, and some of the half-assed lip syncing, but on a whole I thought it was on par (if not better than, in many ways) the third TMNT film.

Why would I care if you don't like it? You're entitled to your opinion. It's just important that people make the distinction between opinion as fact, given so many choose to speak the former as if it were the latter. I'm not being touchy, over-sensitive, or snarky about the issue at all, mang. Dunno where you're getting that from. If anything, you seem to be reacting in a bit of a hostile fashion.

Believe me, I have standards for the TMNT. I've been excessively critical of the IDW books for using old tropes, stereotypes, pigeon-holing or under-developing characters, and much more. I still love the book because there's quality art, emotional depth, new twists and turns, etc. I am still able to enjoy versions of the TMNT widely regarded as bad because at the end of the day, I'm still watching 4 walking talking turtles with weapons wisecrack & spew pop culture references. That's the TMNT in a nutshell, so as long as these factors are a constant, there is some chance of the product being redeemable. I don't take non-comic turtles all too seriously, so I'm able to laugh at bad jokes and ideas rather than think "Wow this childrens TV series is far too childish for me".

I love The Next Mutation because it is another chapter of the green guys. It had some really awesome plots, themes, & concepts. Not everything was executed wonderfully, but there was infinite potential as both an extension of the film trilogy or as its own series. The costume design was on point, the turtles and characters like Dragonlord looked crazy cool. They had tons of personality. Pretty much all of the villains were great in concept, if re-worked slightly, the bulk of them would make ideal Mirage baddies. A hunter out for mutant turtles, a group of ancient Chinese vampires, etc, perfect fits. I dislike it because it made the Foot look like a joke, took away their blood brotherhood, Splinter's voice actor and head were kinda wack, the sound effects made it seem sillier than it was, & so on. I can be objective, too. I just think that as a TMNT series, it was more good than bad. It had all the requirements of a good turtle show.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

What say you?

I think people see his name and by default think the movie will be as abysmal as the Transformers movies.

He could be the explosions effects supervisor and still be prematurely blamed for ruining a movie.

[Jester]

Film Catering by Michael Bay.