New Ciro Nieli podcast... the future of Nick TMNT & more!

[Powder]

Nice listen for sure. I'm happy with how everything's going and I eagerly await what's yet to come.

[turtletoons81]

Originally Posted by demonsweat

Really fantastic interview, thanks Andrew! Good to hear he's a Mirage fanboy first with a strong love of the first movie. I'm right there with him. I feel like this show is in good hands.

Some highlights:

- Interviewer: "I don't know if a lot of these people are happy in life."
*snerk*

- He mentioned doing a closed story line, with an actual ending and not letting it peter out... I think that's really great. Too many shows (not just TMNT) make the mistake of tapering off without any closure and I think that tends to leave a sour taste in the mouth.

- Nice shout out to Gargoyles. Miss that show.

- April's radio he mentioned (reference to The Royal Tenenbaums, I believe he said?)

Spoiler:

- First cartoon to stab heads, unprecedented! Keep pushing those censorship boundries guys, I friggin' love it.

Spoiler:

jesus...and people say this is a kid's show.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by NinjaMan

But most women don't buy toys for themselves. The demographic are the boys.

Proof, or it never happened.

[MaximeLoonatic]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

Proof, or it never happened.

I'm buying the toy figure for myself, and I'm a woman!

[Slime State Alumni]

This was such a good interview. The more I hear Ciro talk about his interests, the more I know that the show is in good hands.

[Papenbrook]

Maybe Ciro doesn't want any female characters to became too powerful because it makes them look like Mary Sues. Also, I pretty sure that if more female characters appear, more ships will be created.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by turtletoons81

jesus...and people say this is a kid's show.

Well, that is the Foot robots, not actual people

[BubblyShell22]

Loved that podcast. Thanks for sharing, Andrew. I love everything I've heard and can't wait to see what this show has in store for us down the road. You can tell Ciro really loves what he's doing and really wants to create a good show, which he has done.

[NinjaMan]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

Proof, or it never happened.

You really think grown women are the target audience when it comes to action figures in a show aimed at boys?

[MaximeLoonatic]

Originally Posted by NinjaMan

You really think grown women are the target audience when it comes to action figures in a show aimed at boys?

To grown women who has been fans of TMNT since childhood? Heck Yeah!

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by MaximeLoonatic

To grown women who has been fans of TMNT since childhood? Heck Yeah!

Exactly. Apparently us men are the only ones allowed to never grow up. Far be it for women to not like their childhood shows. Admit it, most girl shows were stupid and insulting to girls. The smarter ones dug the boys shows.

[demonsweat]

Target demographic =/= entire audience of the show.

The show is definitely aimed mostly at young boys. But that doesn't mean ladies or older fans can't enjoy it (and buy the toys). It's marketed towards a specific audience, just like everything else. No need to defend your love of it, we're all superfans here, right?

[Shark_Blade]

There's already another female enemy - Mrs Campbell. I trust Ciro on this, what he's doing now is great.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

What I got out of the podcast is that what those two "have" now is just transitional. And ultimately they'll arrive at the same platonic place they're at in most TMNT media.

Kinda like how Teen Titans ending I guess. But I have a feeling Ciro and his team will surprise us all, since he's aiming for closure after all.

Originally Posted by MiBs

haha, I hope there's more to it than that

Yeah me too.

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

One of the bigger things to me is the early comment he made about how things will progress, that potentially the Fred Wolf fans are potentially going to feel left out as things become more 4Kids-like. That could mean a lot of things.

I...really don't see it. The second season so far has felt like it's pushing much more in the direction of the Fred Wolf show; in that they're going for more mutants, the Technodrome underwater, a Shredder/Kraang alliance, and April living apart from the Turtles. I'm not calling Nielli a liar, but the dissonance really makes me wonder why we needed to squeeze this stuff in between the first season, which so far has had a stronger (if not all that strong) story arc, and his later more 4Kids-like stories.

The one area I credit for being similar to 4Kids' show is that the status quo doesn't stay still in this show. A lot of characters change their appearance, roles, etc, and all of that is nice, but it never seems like the priority of the plot. We're basically getting a light repeat of the problem from the start of the first season; in that April loses her father, it's portrayed as something very dramatic, and then it gets ignored in many subsequent episodes. The episode with Casey, they didn't even bother to have April sad and neurotic over the loss.

Now that we're talking about April, I'd like to address Ciro's point about how when there's a female character in a show, she runs the risk of being too powerful. I agree that's happened sometimes as of late. In earlier shows, like the Fred Wolf series, females were usually barred from action roles, and this has created a situation of resentment where we've gone the opposite direction. For example, The Powerpuff Girls and Kim Possible, where it seems the importance of feminism alone is enough to make girls invincible, which actually makes them less relatable to actual women. Naturally, those are comedies, but there's also Transformers Animated, which gave Sari Sumdac way too much power without providing any explanation, and to an extent, even the 4Kids show, which gave April just a bit too many talents. It's really not often you get somebody who can function as a brainy computer nerd, a ninja, and a jungle warrior, all in one. I mean; Batman can, but he's the star of his series. So there really is a risk of female characters becoming Mary Sues.

I do have to criticize Nielli on a lot of his other related points, though. First of all, I don't think his Teen Titans show made Starfire and Raven too powerful; given the source. Starfire was, if anything, underpowered next to her graphic novel origin; there she was from a race of catlike warriors, while the show made her more of a ditz who had a lot of physical strength, but little finesse. Cartoon Raven was a better fighter than her graphic novel origin; both in terms of hand-to-hand combat and having gained telekinetic powers, but her most cosmic, demonic, dangerous abilities were, in fact, taken from the original. Secondly, how could Nielli be worried about creating a Mary Sue in terms of abilities, yet think doing so in terms of popularity and plot-centricism is fine. I wonder just how close we came to a Ninja Turtles show that was mostly about April, with all of the Turtles having crushes on her. Third and finally, though there is, in fact, the risk of making females too powerful, it's far from inevitable, and I don't think it's right to use that as an excuse not to have females.

[BabyTurtles]

^ it's moments like this I appreaciate the avatar the last airbender series

I mean Katara.....she was weak at first but practiced just like any person should and became a beast. AND SHE EARNED IT.



heck most of Aang's enemies were girls XD I just don't understand why we can't have more girls in TMNT

April DOESN'T need to be some super powerful ninja....she didn't need to be some special plot for the kraang.

she could have just been a normal human girl, but was resourceful in her own way. We saw that she was pretty good at collecting info for the turtles....why not keep her doing that? give her a good personality and BAM awesome heroine *_*

and if they needed more kick-but girls, they had Karai...and could have put some mutant chicks in there.....heck even ANGEL!!

there's no excuse...sorry...

[pannoni1]

Very informative interview, thanks NDB! My favorite tidbit was about how all of the buildings were named after different creators of the show; next time I watch I'll check the credits to see which represents who. I just hope that the show lasts longer so that Nick can invest in more sets since that's clearly the show's biggest budget limitation. I always feel that the show takes place between Canal street and 14th Street in Manhattan and after all parts of Philly do feel like parts of Manhattan between Downtown and Midtown. Many of the streets are also crooked down there in the real NYC. Bleeker street is one of the streets in the area, so it did a good job of getting the location that the first movie used. But its nice to see himself doing a steady workflow with a new episode every two weeks; sounds like a fun job once you got the hang of it!

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by MaximeLoonatic

To grown women who has been fans of TMNT since childhood? Heck Yeah!

This.

I bought the toys for myself because I like collecting stuff. I can safely say I'm not alone in this.

[Heather Breckel]

Yeah, us grown women definitely aren't the target demographic, but we're out there!

Avatar is a pretty good example of one of the few American cartoon series that have a lot of good female characters. It was a pretty big deal when Korra came out and boys weren't bothered by the fact the main protagonist is a girl. Boys apparently aren't that bothered by female characters. (now if only we'd get Avatar toys outside of the really bad ATLA ones they made)

[NinjaMan]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

This.

I bought the toys for myself because I like collecting stuff. I can safely say I'm not alone in this.

You apparently don't understand how toys/tv show aimed at boys work. This is a kids show aimed at boys probably around the age of 10-11. They don't care if grown women watch the show. Most boys from what I've read and seen with other toylines besides TMNT don't buy female figures. Hasbro has said the same thing themselves with some of their lines. That's just the way it is. Me, I want a Karai figure for my collection. But I know her chances are slim.

And on that note, I'm done with the topic.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by NinjaMan

You apparently don't understand how toys/tv show aimed at boys work. This is a kids show aimed at boys probably around the age of 10-11. They don't care if grown women watch the show. Most boys from what I've read and seen with other toylines besides TMNT don't buy female figures. Hasbro has said the same thing themselves with some of their lines. That's just the way it is. Me, I want a Karai figure for my collection. But I know her chances are slim.

And on that note, I'm done with the topic.

Don't worry, I understand how backwards western cartoons/toy companies are back then. It's why I switched to anime as a teen. I don't need to get hung up on Korra not getting an action figure because I can get a Mikasa Ackerman one.

However, it's 2013. Girls can play with action figures now. Guys watch My Little Pony. It doesn't need to be "it's always like this" mantra anymore.