Is the mutagen a bit too "magical" in this show?

[CyberCubed]

It seems like in this show the mutagen can do whatever the writers want it to based on the episode. No longer does it just turn the person into the last animal they were in contact with but it now:

- Mutates inorganic manner with flesh and blood (Cockroach terminator)

- Can give people the power to control Rats (Rat King)

- Can double mutate someone if they fall into it twice (Dogpound/Rahzar)

- Turns people into useless blobs for no reason (Mutagen Man)

- Some mutants don't have the ability to speak, yet others can speak naturally

- Can cause zits on mutant turtles


It seems like in every new episode the mutagen can just magically do whatever the writers want it to for the episode. Are there any "rules" to the Nick mutagen at all? It all seems rather random.

[Coola Yagami]

That's just it.. it's unstable and random.

For Timothy, we can say he didn't touch any animal or anything so it broke him down. Mikey used a failed attempt of retromutagen (which is super dumb, he could have accidentaly turned himself back into a normal turtle). Falco was doing all sorts of weird experiments and alterations to Mutagen.

No explanation for those squirrels, or why some can talk and others can't. Or why the wasp just turned giant sized.

[Shark_Blade]

"Unpredictable" is what I would call it.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

"Unpredictable" is what I would call it.

True, but there seems to be no "rules" for it at all. Literally anything can happen when you touch mutagen in this show.

At least in the original toon/4kids/Mirage it seemed to actually only change you based on what was established.

[Jester]

FW ooze was all over the map, too. Though that could be chalked up to formulation.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Jester

FW ooze was all over the map, too. Though that could be chalked up to formulation.

At least they explained it in some episodes, like when it went all rainbow in one episode because it was unstable.

[Leo656]

A little consistency would be nice, but I don't think this show is really worried about that.

It sucks that it's function is basically "whatever the writers need it to do", and that it's so blatant, but eh, kids' show.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Jester

FW ooze was all over the map, too. Though that could be chalked up to formulation.

Originally Posted by Leo656

A little consistency would be nice, but I don't think this show is really worried about that.

It sucks that it's function is basically "whatever the writers need it to do", and that it's so blatant, but eh, kids' show.

Exactly, at least when the OT mutagen was unstable we knew some defect would occur ("Were-Rats of Channel 6") but for the most part we knew the mechanism of the mutagen (combining the forms of two previously touched entities.)

With the Nick Mutagen, its a crapshoot when it comes to the mutants intelligence, if they'll even have a form (Timothy/Mutagen Man), how exactly they interact with it (drink vs. touch it, Squirrelanoids vs. Dogpound and Fishface), how can it cause a "bad ass" looking mutation (Dogpound to Rahzar), whether it will be big or not (the "Parasitica" wasps).

It almost begs the question, if this mutagen is so unpredictable, why would Nick Shredder even bother in wanting it? He doesn't seem like the person who would be patient enough or willing to make many mistakes to have his "mutant army".

The Nick mutagen appears to be more of a writer's/creator's imagination "grab bag" as a device to insert whatever character design they want to, rather than following a stricter set of biological, chemical, or physical mechanisms that other TMNT universes have.

[Leo656]

I could see Shredder wanting the mutagen so he could try and find a way to stabilize it, but yeah, in its current form it kinda does seem like more trouble than it's worth. In trying to build a mutant army, he could theoretically end up with a whole lot of misfires and only a few viable ones.

[Jester]

There's more to the FW mutagen that "Caused whoever touched it to take on the form of what ever animal they have most recently been in contact with." Some made things bigger, like insects. Some completely merged animals, like the cows Mutagen Monster. The FW mutagen, as often as it was used, also had a variety of uses. Heck, the same formulation that made the Punk Frogs and Leatherhead also made a Fountain of Youth.

Ooze has always, aside from maybe Mirage (but there it was a one off thing), done what's plot convenient.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Jester

There's more to the FW mutagen that "Caused whoever touched it to take on the form of what ever animal they have most recently been in contact with." Some made things bigger, like insects. Some completely merged animals, like the cows Mutagen Monster. The FW mutagen, as often as it was used, also had a variety of uses. Heck, the same formulation that made the Punk Frogs and Leatherhead also made a Fountain of Youth.

Ooze has always, aside from maybe Mirage (but there it was a one off thing), done what's plot convenient.

At least in those episodes OT Donatello or Krang was there to explain why things didn't work out in that episode, rather than leaving the viewer to grasp at straws in figuring out why things didn't lead up to the combined mutant form.

In Mutagen Monster, didn't Rocksteady and Bebop mess up the chemicals that were supposed to make mutagen?

In the Big Bug Blunder, Rocksteady and Bebop knocked in an additional chemical in the mutagen to cause the growth effect in the insects and arachnids.

In the Leatherhead episode, at least Donatello explained the diluted mutagen with the minerals caused a fountain of youth.

Maybe not as strict and of course subtly for plot convenience , but at least there was something "gone wrong" or an additional chemical that made these other outcomes more tolerable. In the OT, we didn't have to beat our heads in aggravation trying to decipher why the same untainted mutagen was so unpredictable and random as say the Nick mutagen.

[Jester]

There was a line back in season 1 that mentioned that the fact that it is of Dimension X origin makes it unstable...but I'll agree it's a rather large spectrum of instabilities.

[Refractive Reflections]

Is there really a "spectrum" Jester? That would be assuming the mutations would be classified within a finite range of possibilities, and we certainly didn't see it's full limitations yet. I think "numerous unknown variables" would be a better description , but that's me being a stickler for details sometimes.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by JYX

Is there really a "spectrum" Jester? That would be assuming the mutations would be classified within a finite range of possibilities, and we certainly didn't see it's full limitations yet.

Touche...But it seems like all the mutations (save maybe Rat King, but that IS explained away) have 3 types: Combine elements (like The Turtles, Splinter, Dogpound, Fishface, Spider Bytes, Snake Weed, the Cockroach Terminator, Kirby), makes things larger (like the wasp, the Squirlanoids...and to a point Rahzar), and acts as an acid (Timothy...and again you could almost say Rahzar.)
It's not as broad as it's made to seem.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Jester

Touche...But it seems like all the mutations (save maybe Rat King, but that IS explained away) have 3 types: Combine elements (like The Turtles, Splinter, Dogpound, Fishface, Spider Bytes, Snake Weed, the Cockroach Terminator, Kirby), makes things larger (like the wasp, the Squirlanoids...and to a point Rahzar), and acts as an acid (Timothy...and again you could almost say Rahzar.)
It's not as broad as it's made to seem.

Ah, I see you are very analytical about this. I got to give you a lot of respect on that.
But if we were to truly get some form of a concrete understanding of how this Nick Mutagen worked, we could bring out the (I can't believe I'm bringing this up ) scientific method, we would need to know the fixed variables of the mutation that would produce the same outcomes every time.

To explain how I'm viewing this is, for example, when you classified "make things larger": the wasp, the squirrelanoids, and maybe Rahzar.
All of their mutations weren't solely being bigger as a whole:

With the wasps they were big, but they had some mind-altering property in their stinger that regular wasps don't have.
With the squirrelanoids they were big, but their life cycle depended on asexual reproduction within a host's stomach for a stage before becoming the squirrelanoid.
With Rahzar he was big, but some how he became more visually threatening.

As for the acid properties, how exactly does that come into play? The "acid burning" is the behavior of the reaction, but their outcomes are too different.
Why is it that Dogpound/Rahzar was made to be a threatening "wolf", but yet Timothy was made into a blob?

So, at least in my own thinking , the number and types of variables in the environment were too ambiguous and numerous (for me at least) and probably fickle, which gave each of these mutants vast additional changes besides just getting larger or just having acid behaving reactive properties. As for the combine elements, if you notice, most of those mutations were around the beginning of the series but the principle or "laws" of the Nick mutagen became progressively looser. That's why, for me at least, I call the Nick mutagen a "grab bag" because the outcomes are never quite the same every time as the series goes on because they acquire more than just those 3 categories of mutations.

...Yeah, I know. I'm going down the long "rabbit hole" of detail and logic here. Far more detail I should... me and my details.

[Jester]

Maybe that's it too....the age of the mutagen.
The Turtles and Splinter are the most stable because they were mutated 15 years prior and they have all kinda gone down hill since....

But again it's just a (very untested) theory.

[Refractive Reflections]

You're gonna hate me for this Jester.

I could also put Splinter/Hamato Yoshi within the acid category too since he screams in the premiere.

In addition, Snakeweed, Spiderbytez and the Cockroach terminator also become bigger than its larger species/element, and I could place them in the "makes things larger" category.

So... yeah... if I had to choose a theory it could be a progressively unstable mutagen, but it's a whisper away from falling flat though, as you similarly stated earlier.

[Jester]

Mutagenic MacGuffin....

[Ninja Tiptup]

Progressively unstable is a theory but Dogpound and Fishface came out more like Hamato Yoshi and there's the whole crap-shoot when it comes to intelligence thing and I'd be willing to say anyone of above average intellect loses their intelligence but that wasn't the case with Hamato Yoshi. The real test will be Baxter but I seriously doubt he's going to go mind-less when he becomes a fly man.

Mikey's puss pockets and Dr. Falco's experiments on himself and on the other professor along with the freezing mutagen were all due to manipulation of the mutagen but everything else has been caused by supposedly the same mutagen however unstable it may be.

A few more things that get my goat is traces of mutagen is usually enough to do something and yet some of that was found on the street by Donatello's tracking device with no consequence and I'm pretty sure when Donny picked up the broken mutagen container some of it was still in the box and probably touching something it could mutate.

The squirrel licked mutagen up but in almost every seen circumstance mutagen reaction is instant and doesn't take time to build up before happening and the only other case of delayed reaction was caused by manipulating the formula.

When the whole mutagen vat spilled knocking Xever and Bradford off the building why didn't it mutate anything but them? There was a ton of it down there. I am however almost willing to accept Dogpounds rock spikes because of concrete getting mixed in and we've seen inorganic matter can affect the outcome with this mutagen but given that the cardboard box situation still bothers the crap out of me.

Related to that there is clear signs that when the mutagen activates it uses up whatever mutagen is present and leaves no trace. So when Vic got oozed by a sizable amount of mutagen it all just vanished so I guess that's some explanation for where the rest of the mutagen ended up when Bradford and Xever got washed away by it.

And that double dunk for Bradford begs the question what happens if you leave organic matter inside the tank for an extended period of time? Additional mutations? Would they ever stop?

And don't even get me started on how it makes no sense that Timothy can consume mutagen now even if he is a blob. I suppose it can be argued that his unique form allows him to consume mutagen and use it to gain limbs and strength but why is that? I'm not willing to accept that under the rules that created most of these creatures "he didn't touch anything because of his suit" that's a cop-out if you ask me. I'm much more willing to believe the stuff is so unstable that even if he had touched something recently this could still have been the result. I'd have preferred they used the explanation of someone tampering with that batch of mutagen but oh well.

[Technogeek29]

I don't get this Mutagen formula. My bro cracked the joke and I qoute "So a science degree major loses almost all reasoning, but a couple of average joes and a slob retained theirs?" Seriously I roll my eyes at that one (mainly from laughing)