New Ciro Nieli podcast... the future of Nick TMNT & more!

[Avatar Yuffie]

Originally Posted by Jester

Yo mean like Season 2 of TMNT seems to be doing so far?

Oh please, by next episode Don's arm will heal and Raph wouldn't think about Slash and people will forget about batdad. Again.

Just because the main characters get harmed a little more =/= mature story.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by DarthEmpress

How do you mean? Season 2 doesn't seem any more "mature" than Season 1. It's become a tad bit darker (like Slash bruising up the turtles), but it still hasn't reached the level of "maturity" that I felt the 2k3 series had, especially in its first two seasons.

Maybe we just have different views of "mature". I think the wailing that Slash gave the turtles, especially Mikey, was very brutal, and I would say it is too "mature" for younger Kids.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by DarthEmpress

How do you mean? Season 2 doesn't seem any more "mature" than Season 1. It's become a tad bit darker (like Slash bruising up the turtles), but it still hasn't reached the level of "maturity" that I felt the 2k3 series had, especially in its first two seasons.

Some of the fights are getting just as brutal as the 2k3 fights. Its not quite there yet but we're seeing signs of it getting close.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Konchadunga

Perhaps he didn't feel he needed to give a crap. I wouldn't. If this thing was broadly accepted, I never heard of it. Compared to such things as making sure women can fight, don't always wear pink, and aren't just sex objects, I don't recall it being any widely-held standard of feminism. You can't just pull an innovative idea that many people don't know of, and then criticize them for not following it.

Then he should have said that.
If he didn't know what the Bechdel Test was he should have asked.
He didn't.

The Bechdel Test isn't a standard of feminism at all, but rather a BMI'esque measure of female representation in media.

No; you shouldn't always have to justify a character being female, but Bradford, I think, needed to be male for what they were doing. Being the traditionally dominant sex and still power-hungry makes it clear to viewers that he's an inexcusable villain. He may not have appreciated being stuck in clumsy body (though honestly, I don't remember him complaining about it until the episode he became Razar), but it wasn't meant to make him the woobie; rather it was displaying outside what he'd always been; a big bully.

Bradford needed to be male so they could make Chuck Norris into a bad guy.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

The Bechdel Test isn't a standard of feminism at all, but rather a BMI'esque measure of female representation in media.

And like the BMI, just as messy.

[plastroncafe]

Agreed.

But...it's kind of sad that there are so few things out there were two female named characters have a conversation about something that isn't the male protagonist.

Luckily, thanks to "Target: April O'Neil," Season Two of Nick's TMNT is now on the short list.

[Shark_Blade]

Found a pic of Ciro.

[turtletoons81]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

Found a pic of Ciro.

holy corn chips this dude as a ton of comics of tmnt... wonder how if he read the archie one's.also flaming carrot is at the bottom left.

[CyberCubed]

LOL @ The Flaming carrot comic sitting there.

[Electric]

Originally Posted by DarthEmpress

How do you mean? Season 2 doesn't seem any more "mature" than Season 1. It's become a tad bit darker (like Slash bruising up the turtles), but it still hasn't reached the level of "maturity" that I felt the 2k3 series had, especially in its first two seasons.

because this show isnt going to be as mature as 2k3? its a new series, its not trying to be like OT or 2k3. its going to have some goofiness and immature humor, but just because it hasnt reached 2k3's all seriousness doesnt mean it hasnt matured.

the show has matured. not just gotten darker. the turtles are maturing. mikeys getting smarter, donnies taken on a ton of responsibility, raph just lost his childhood friend, leo found out their enemy is their sister. the plots are maturing, the characters are maturing, and its reduced some of the immature humor. but its not just going to become all serious. because its still a kids show.

[DarthEmpress]

Originally Posted by ElectricN

because this show isnt going to be as mature as 2k3? its a new series, its not trying to be like OT or 2k3. its going to have some goofiness and immature humor, but just because it hasnt reached 2k3's all seriousness doesnt mean it hasnt matured.

the show has matured. not just gotten darker. the turtles are maturing. mikeys getting smarter, donnies taken on a ton of responsibility, raph just lost his childhood friend, leo found out their enemy is their sister. the plots are maturing, the characters are maturing, and its reduced some of the immature humor. but its not just going to become all serious. because its still a kids show.

I haven't seen Mikey maturing yet, but I suppose that'll come later. I know it's not supposed to be like the 2k3 series and that's a good thing--it should keep it's light-heartedness and humor, but I find that when this series attempts to be a bit "darker" and go into territory that just doesn't fit it (such as Leo attempting a self-sacrifice in season one) it falls completely flat.

In the podcast, Ciro said we're going to be seeing more 2k3 influences in the show later on so I wonder what that'll mean. I doubt Hun and Bishop or a SAINW-like episode would work in this series.

[plastroncafe]

I wish I could remember the guy's name, but I randomly ran into one of Ciro's old roommates in Artist Alley at this past SDCC. I usually pick up Dooney's Con Poster Du Jour and use it as a "yearbook" of sorts. Usually people look at me funny. Sean Astin told me that Year Book is a great name for it, when I sheepishly explained the purpose behind the memento.

This gentleman though, the one who identified as the old roomie, took it as an opportunity to tell me all about Ciro's comic collection and how devoted he was to them. It was equal parts awesome and heartwarming.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by DarthEmpress

I haven't seen Mikey maturing yet, but I suppose that'll come later.

Actually I think Mikey is maturing :3

before he was the one with the crazy imagination and didn't mind that his brothers didn't listen to him, cause all he wanted was attention from them (like most little siblings)

but now he doesn't want to just be seen, he wants to be heard.

every time Mikey has an idea and his brother blow him off, you can tell it annoys him alot not now.


he's slowly but surely becoming mature in his own way :3

[turtletoons81]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

Actually I think Mikey is maturing :3

before he was the one with the crazy imagination and didn't mind that his brothers didn't listen to him, cause all he wanted was attention from them (like most little siblings)

but now he doesn't want to just be seen, he wants to be heard.

every time Mikey has an idea and his brother blow him off, you can tell it annoys him alot not now.


he's slowly but surely becoming mature in his own way :3

for example remember the shadow puppet distraction he did to the kraang's that's was smart move by him normally alot of dumb character's don't do that and it's honestly showing mikey is slowly maturing and not mature quickly like *snaps finger* that,i mean look at april she hasn't gotten stronger i mean yeah she fight's but she isn't quite near the level of strength the turtles are yet.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by turtletoons81

for example remember the shadow puppet distraction he did to the kraang's that's was smart move by him normally alot of dumb character's don't do that and it's honestly showing mikey is slowly maturing and not mature quickly like *snaps finger* that,i mean look at april she hasn't gotten stronger i mean yeah she fight's but she isn't quite near the level of strength the turtles are yet.

I hope she never gets to the level of the turtles.....and if she does she better be 31 years old. (15 years plus training)

(April seems to be getting good a little too fast....)

[demonsweat]

Originally Posted by Avatar Yuffie

... Oh, btw to the guy who insisted Marceline was a love interest. A friend of mine updated on the subject, and I was apparently wrong.

Marceline was Princess Bubblegum's love interest. And apparently they had something going on there that the writers confirmed was romance that they had to be subtle about it. There was a fairly recent episode about a t-shirt.

Still more progressive than TMNT though.

You're still wrong. The Marcy/Bubblegum thing was never official, and never confirmed by the writers. It all started with the episode "What Was Missing," where we find out Bubblegum has a t-shirt which was given to her by Marcy in the past, implying that they were once friends (but nothing more). Of course the shippers ran with it, to the point that Frederator made a saucy promo video revolving around the two. However - AT official freaked, the video was taken down, and the guy who made it was fired. So to recap:

- Marceline and Bubblegum have no romantic history.
- Marceline did indeed date an abusive asshole (Season 3), who Finn (another dude) saved her from, just for the record.
- Finn crushed on Marcy early on in the series too. And she enjoyed teasing him, making him blush, etc.

Also

Spoiler:

Who said I was a guy?

Look, I love both shows, but obviously I love TMNT a little more or I wouldn't be here. I think Marceline is a rad lady, and a strong female character. Probably my favorite, just above Karai (I got a thing for badass ladies, can you tell? ). But Marcy doesn't fit into these narrow-minded sets of rules you guys keep laying down for the females in this show. Face it, you just like that show better, so you give it more of a pass. But you can't have it both ways. If you're going to call out Karai and April for being love interests, then stand by your convictions and admit that some of your favorite female characters don't measure up to that as well.

And then the question is: does it really f'ing matter? Why make any standard set of rules? Isn't it enough that both Karai and April are tough, independent, smart, strong... but they still have flaws? I think those are good characters and far better female role-models than the ones we had when I was a kid. That's progressive.

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

The Bechdel Test isn't a standard of feminism at all, but rather a BMI'esque measure of female representation in media.

Originally Posted by Jester

And like the BMI, just as messy.

So... I missed the "I" at first and read that as BM. Which pretty much sums up this thread.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by demonsweat

Also

Spoiler:

Who said I was a guy?

Look, I love both shows, but obviously I love TMNT a little more or I wouldn't be here. I think Marceline is a rad lady, and a strong female character. Probably my favorite, just above Karai (I got a thing for badass ladies, can you tell? ). But Marcy doesn't fit into these narrow-minded sets of rules you guys keep laying down for the females in this show. Face it, you just like that show better, so you give it more of a pass. But you can't have it both ways. If you're going to call out Karai and April for being love interests, then stand by your convictions and admit that some of your favorite female characters don't measure up to that as well.

And then the question is: does it really f'ing matter? Why make any standard set of rules? Isn't it enough that both Karai and April are tough, independent, smart, strong... but they still have flaws? I think those are good characters and far better female role-models than the ones we had when I was a kid. That's progressive.

I'm sorry...but April is nothing like Bubblegum or Marceline....OR even Karai.

Bubblegum is (or was) Finn's love interest but she is shown being, smart, independent, and kind. Adventure Time treats Bubblegum MORE than just Finn's love interest. Bubblegum interacts with her candy people and cares about them and is shown trying to approve for them. She's also a little bit of a mad scientist.

April isn't like that....we are told that she is independent....but as soon as danger comes she's calling the boys.....(which I can't blame her for...I mean they are ninja heroes so they're doing their job) but it's hard to even pin down her attitude...is she sassy? kind? quirky? independent? Most of the time she just stands there looking clueless at Donnie's flirting. which brings up another point! Does she like the flirting? she seems to brush it off alot...but she also hugs and kisses him as if Don has a chance....thats CONFUSING.

both April and Bubblegum are love interests....but while Bubblegum is treated as something more, April is 90% of the time being the girl Donnie is drooling over...or stalking...or trying to win over. April is barely shown with personality (Until she gets mad...) She says she's good friends with the turtles...but let's face it...she's friends with only Donnie. The writers don't take any time to develop her relationship with the turtles and when they do it's about Love.

Karai might be Leo's love interest...or was, but she's shown to have alot of personality, and...make her own choices even if they aren't good. She has problems and she's on the wrong side...but you can tell she's confused about who she is...and if her father even loves her.

Same for Marcy, she's all kinds of awesome. She's just a cool girl, not really a love interest, just a friend. (yea girls can just be friends and not love interests)


April is just moving a plot. Whether it be the Kraang plot...or the romantic plot

I had better heroines growing up. Kim Possible and Katara are my favorites. (Bubblegum, Marceline, and Karai are also very cool)

[demonsweat]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

I'm sorry...but April is nothing like Bubblegum or Marceline....OR even Karai.

Bubblegum is (or was) Finn's love interest but she is shown being, smart, independent, and kind. Adventure Time treats Bubblegum MORE than just Finn's love interest. Bubblegum interacts with her candy people and cares about them and is shown trying to approve for them. She's also a little bit of a mad scientist.

No I agree, Bubblegum is cool. I really like that she's a scientist on top of being a princess. I can't recall any princesses from the old 'toons that did anything but sit on the throne and wait to be saved. Plus they did the whole, "Bubblegum ain't got time for a man," storyline, so that pretty much cements her character as out of the love game for now.

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

April isn't like that....we are told that she is independent....but as soon as danger comes she's calling the boys.....(which I can't blame her for...I mean they are ninja heroes so they're doing their job) but it's hard to even pin down her attitude...is she sassy? kind? quirky? independent? Most of the time she just stands there looking clueless at Donnie's flirting. which brings up another point! Does she like the flirting? she seems to brush it off alot...but she also hugs and kisses him as if Don has a chance....thats CONFUSING.

both April and Bubblegum are love interests....but while Bubblegum is treated as something more, April is 90% of the time being the girl Donnie is drooling over...or stalking...or trying to win over. April is barely shown with personality (Until she gets mad...) She says she's good friends with the turtles...but let's face it...she's friends with only Donnie. The writers don't take any time to develop her relationship with the turtles and when they do it's about Love.

Well, you said it yourself - she has to call on them sometimes because she's not a fighter. I don't see that as a flaw exactly. Remember, she did blow them off for a while... it's not like she kept hanging around them just for protection. But she's tough too. She's stood up to Karai on more than one occasion. She fearlessly went into battle against the footbots with Casey. Plus, in Season 1 she insisted on going undercover; once to plant a bug in the Purple Dragon's hideout, the other to distract the Kraang so LH and the turtles could infiltrate. The PD thing was her idea too, so she got smarts (plus she tutors Casey). IDK, she's stepped up a lot, man... April is no slouch in this show.

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

Karai might be Leo's love interest...or was, but she's shown to have alot of personality, and...make her own choices even if they aren't good. She has problems and she's on the wrong side...but you can tell she's confused about who she is...and if her father even loves her.

Same for Marcy, she's all kinds of awesome. She's just a cool girl, not really a love interest, just a friend. (yea girls can just be friends and not love interests)


April is just moving a plot. Whether it be the Kraang plot...or the romantic plot

I had better heroines growing up. Kim Possible and Katara are my favorites. (Bubblegum, Marceline, and Karai are also very cool)

Marceline has been a love interest at certain intervals. That's my point - I think it's fine, it doesn't take away from how awesome she is. If she ends up with a guy again, maybe permanently, would that ruin the character for you?

I don't know about Karai, but April and Casey are totally going to hook up. And that's okay with me because April is more than just Casey's girlfriend. She's got her own thing going on... can't a girl get some love in a show anymore?

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by demonsweat

I don't about Karai, but April and Casey are totally going to hook up. And that's okay with me because April is more than just Casey's girlfriend. She's got her own thing going on... can't a girl get some love in a show anymore?

but that's the problem she DOESN'T have her own thing going on.

she's a plot mover. it's like having Donnie talk to only April and not do anything except do his inventions.

that's April! she pretty much only talks to the guys that have a crush on her and shows up when the plot needs her to.

and fine..if she HAS to have a romantic subplot with Donnie....can she AT LEAST talk to the other 3 turtles and be friends with them too!!!?

SHE'S NEVER EVEN SAID RAPH'S NAME!! (that's not a problem to anyone?)

I don't care that she's a love interest.......but when that's all she is, that's bad.

I made a joke with my sister once...that the only way for the other turtles to interact with April more is for them to develop a crush on her....or a gap. (extra attention if you have both)

sorry for the rant....I just can't understand why the writers are using April this way......she can be more helpful. she could have helped cheer Raph up after the Slash fiasco....or talk to Mikey about the other turtles not giving him the time of day....anything.

I don't need ninja April....I want an April with personality....a caring April.....a sister (like she usually is)

[Cure]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

SHE'S NEVER EVEN SAID RAPH'S NAME!! (that's not a problem to anyone?)

Well since you asked, no, because I don't watch the show for April, therefore I don't care. At all.