Wonder Woman will be in Batman vs Superman movie

[ObiWanFan4life]

Here's Jeremy Jahns' input on the casting decision:

[chrisdude]

I agree with most everything said in that video. Except the part about being excited to see Batman and Superman together. Superman deserves his own film. Man of Steel was about becoming Superman. This is like if they did a crossover after Batman Begins. It's a lot like that. It's just like that.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

She is still trained in the arts of war and combat since childhood, tends to make you bulk up.

Not really. Most of the best Navy SEALs and Marine Special Ops guys are fairly skinny, wiry guys.

[Leo656]

chrisdude: Yep. They wanted MoS to hit the magic $1 billion number (despite the movie being fairly bleak and not very conductive to kids, women, or a lot of repeat business) but it "only" made $700 million, so WB hit the panic button because "Batman fixes everything."

I agree, I'd be a lot more excited for "Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman All-Star Jamboree" (let's all just give up calling it a sequel to MoS anymore; it's not) if it wasn't just a knee-jerk reaction to the studio's greed combined with a ludicrous idea that "Superman doesn't sell". Had they lightened things up a bit, MoS could have hit the numbers they wanted easily. It was a good movie, but one that only men and comic nerds cared to see repeatedly. Most women hated it, and a lot of people didn't want to bring their kids, especially after word of mouth got out. "Joyless", was a word that was thrown around a lot, and while I don't agree, I can't fully disagree, either. It's their own fault; they limited their audience in the name of making Superman "Dark" and "More like the Batman movies". Meanwhile, Iron Man 3 made a ton of money just for being "fun" and "exciting", while most objective people agree it was merely cookie-cutter tripe squeezing a few more bucks out of the franchise after "Avengers".

What hurt MoS wasn't that Batman wasn't in it, it was that for everything the movie was, it wasn't "fun", and most people want movies to be at least a little bit fun. It's entertainment, after all. Otherwise, there's no logical reason Iron Man 3 made more money than MoS; it almost certainly wasn't a better film, it just had more mass appeal.

Of course, WB reads it as "anything NOT Batman doesn't make money," and now, here we are. I'd be a lot more excited if Superman got to have his own damn movie for a change. Even MoS, Jor-El had almost as much going on as Superman, and that's pretty ridiculous, honestly.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Oh my god, you just stole the words out of my mouth. You know, they could have kept the tone, but added a few bits of much needed humor. Part of why The Justice League cartoon and animated movies are soo good is also why Marvel movies nowadays are so successful because they EMBRACE their silly nature and the cosmic universe they exist in.

[Leo656]

I think taking itself mostly seriously is the right track for most of these movies to go - there has to be depth and drama or else it's just fluff - but even the Dark Knight movies took little good-natured swipes at the Batman mythos throughout. You gotta wink to the audience a *little* bit. Go too far, you get "Superman III", and nobody needs or wants that again. But these comic book movies really need something for everyone, unless it's something purposefully niche like The Punisher or Kick-Ass or Watchmen. All of them gave a "grown-ups" take on super-heroes, played "straight" to various degrees, they were all good movies, and all made poor money compared to their "all-ages" brethren.

I'm not saying we should dumb down the material - frankly, those movies mentioned could not exist as anything but what they were and I'm glad they exist - but when these studios are making a Superman or Batman (or TMNT) movie, and the real goal is to make the most possible amount of money, not necessarily "smarten up" the material (which isn't necessary anyway), it makes zero sense NOT to try and make a movie everyone can enjoy. WB succeeded in making a darker, "more action-y" Superman movie, but not a whole lot more people saw it than did the "slower, talkier" previous one, and the criticisms of either film are almost entirely contradictory. It's as if Returns and MoS each only really got 2/3s or so "right", and the other film "fixed" the other's mistakes. It's like somewhere in between the two is the "right" way to do Superman, and it seems dumb they can't figure out how to tweak those little things that would ensure a much broader audience and so much more repeat business.

Example: I've not yet sat through a screening of MoS where someone in the room didn't in some way object to the "dick splash" and "measuring dicks" lines. I'm serious, it seems like such a little thing, but it makes a difference. You take that junk out, a lot more kids get to have their parents bring them to see it, or see it more than once (a lot of parents I know said once was enough, where movies like Avengers were Just Fine for their kids). You can't under-estimate how one or two small changes in the concession of a more fun, family-friendly movie can add millions of dollars in that money they're chasing.

Batman's not the issue, it's that WB thinks their super-heroes have to be "grown-up" to make money, when you really just have to make a movie that isn't a pandering piece of sh*t, or something like Green Lantern, which was good but flawed in that it didn't know whether it was trying to be funny or serious from one scene to the next.

[chrisdude]

To be fair, The Dark Knight and Avengers series were hugely successful at the same time. Maybe they maintained their confidence in their style. And there was surely an element of, "Let's make sure no one thinks this will be like Superman Returns." People said they wanted a fight, and they got like an hour of it...

But yeah, it's hard to see Batman as anything else but the big red button.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Call me slow but I had no idea Wonder Woman was at least six feet tall.

Anyway, I'm sure Gale Gadot will do a good job as Wonder Woman. My problem with this news is not that she will be the one playing as WW but the fact that DC or WB once again is shoehorning another superhero in a "Man of Steel" sequel. What role will WW be playing in any of this? How much airtime will she be getting? Will she eventually get her own movie? It just seems like, as some of you said, DC is trying to play catch-up with Marvel.

I pray they don't bring in Nightwing in this movie. I would like to see Dick Grayson start off as Robin first before he becomes his own superhero. As well as his own possible movie.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

Call me slow but I had no idea Wonder Woman was at least six feet tall.

She's not. Necessarily.

[The Stryker]

She doesn't exist so technically she can be whatever anyone wants her to be.

[plastroncafe]

So long as the only people being polled are white men between the ages of 18 and 35.

Which is why we don't have someone built like Chyna playing her.

[The Stryker]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

So long as the only people being polled are white men between the ages of 18 and 35.

Which is why we don't have someone built like Chyna playing her.

Oh. I thought it was because of the porn and cocaine thing.

[Allio]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Which is why we don't have someone built like Chyna playing her.

You haven't seen her in awhile, have you?

[chrisdude]

Do you think this happened because Henry Cavill and Gina Carano broke up?

EDIT_____

Good heavens! At least have the decency to show her in makeup!


*rimshot*

[Jester]

Yeah, oddly enough what "hurt" Man of Steel was making Superman too much like Batman. I mean, despite the uber-depressing "Last Son of Krypton" moniker, he's always been a more upbeat character than Bats. He's always been hopeful and a beacon.

Originally Posted by Jor-El

Live as one of them, Kal-El, to discover where your strength and your power are needed. Always hold in your heart the pride of your special heritage. They can be a great people, Kal-El, if they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you... my only son.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Jester

Yeah, oddly enough what "hurt" Man of Steel was making Superman too much like Batman. I mean, despite the uber-depressing "Last Son of Krypton" moniker, he's always been a more upbeat character than Bats. He's always been hopeful and a beacon.

Superman wasn't really the Superman we know until the end of the movie. But that was exactly the point.

[Jester]

Yeah, but you can still learn to be THAT Superman without being The Batman...

[Cowabunga Carl]

I just really want a solid movie, but am worried that DC instead of taking their time to build characters people will care about are cramming everything in and seeing what works. It scares me to think if it doesn't do well they'll say something along the lines of, "See we said WW doesn't sell."

[Leo656]

I didn't think Clark himself was anything like Batman in MoS. I think people make that association because Nolan and Zimmer worked on both, and the tone of MoS was a bit darker. Other than having a bit more of a temper than has been seen in films so far, there was nothing wrong with his portrayal. Even that, in the comics he's *always* had a bit of a short fuse, it's just that he has to always take such care in the use of his powers because he knows everything and everyone around him is so fragile. One thing I liked about George Reeves and Dean Cain's portrayals, was that in either case they showed a Superman who wasn't afraid to get a little gruff.

As for MoS, it was a time in his life when he was confused and still figuring things out, and I did enjoy seeing him grow into his role. But at the same time, he had such a determined, authoritative presence. He spoke with such conviction, and came off as someone who isn't to be messed with, and did it without growling, snarling or threatening. When he calmly stood up and snapped those handcuffs, you could feel the guys on the other side of that glass all clench. Without even raising his voice, he commands everything and lets you know in no uncertain terms that he's the one in charge of any situation he's in. That's exactly what Superman needs to be. And he did it in such a subtle way, using facial expressions and body language to put it over. I thought he did a really great job, and I am (was?) looking forward to seeing his take on "Clark as a disguise", which we didn't really get to see in MoS.

One thing he nailed perfectly, was that his Clark, even when he says he isn't sure what to do, instinctively knows anyway. It's been often stated that Superman's greatest ability is the ability to instinctively know right from wrong and what needs to be done in any situation. That's something he was raised with, not something he got by being an alien. A good example was the scene in the church where Father Leone asked him what his gut told him, and he simply said "Zod can't be trusted." Just that one take, the matter-of-fact way he delivered that line, was a subtle but brilliant illustration of Cavill's understanding of the character. Learning to trust his own judgment was really the last thing he needed to learn to fully become Superman as we know him, and I thought the film showed a great transition from his uncertainty to his confidence. To be the hero Earth needs, he needs to act with that bold confidence, even if he is uncertain deep down. You can have a Superman who is conflicted, but when it's time to act he can't hesitate. That's something MoS got right where I always felt "Smallville" got it very, very wrong.

If nothing else about the next film, I'm sure Cavill's portrayal will be excellent. I enjoy his performance a little more each time I see the movie. I really, really enjoyed both Reeve and Routh's performances, but I'm starting to feel like Cavill is the comic book Superman fully come to life in a way even Reeve didn't quite capture. Well, he did, but through no fault of his own it isn't the more modern take on the character. It's fitting the film was called "Man of Steel", because all of it and especially Cavill's portrayal really feels like the Byrne-era Superman from the books.

As for Wonder Woman and her height, it fluctuates depending on the writer and artist, but she's usually listed around 6' or 6'1. Some go more extreme with it; when Darwyn Cooke did "DC: The New Frontier", he fell in love with the more "purely Amazon" take on Wonder Woman, and made her a shade under 7 feet, which I feel was a little bit much. He made it a point to repeatedly show her towering over Superman, who's almost always said to be 6'4, no less than 6'3. Part of why he did this, so it's been said, was symbolic, as he felt in a way that the creation of Wonder Woman's character, a strong, ostensibly-equal super-heroine, was a "greater step" in our society than Superman, who was "simply" another strong male hero with a snazzier outfit than had ever been done. Since showing women as equal to men in any form of fiction was still a novel idea when Wonder Woman and Superman were created, Cooke chose to represent Wonder Woman as being a "bigger deal" than Superman in "New Frontier", all the way up to making her 7' tall "Just because". I don't really think it looks right, though.

Obviously, none of the actors involved are anywhere near the character's canonical heights, but that doesn't matter at all. I think the actress is said to be about 5'9, which is just fine for a convincing Wonder Woman. Especially when Cavill's nowhere near 6'4, far as I know. Height-wise, she's fine, just needs to buff up a bit. I'm not suggesting they throw down in the movie, but Wonder Woman's been known to take Superman down with a punch, and it'd be nice if she looked believable, as if something like that was possible, even if they don't go there. She doesn't have to hit Chyna-levels (speaking of... WTF happened THERE?! ) but WW's flipped a few cars in her day. Be nice if she had some definition, at least. The legs might not matter because they'll probably go with one of the newer, pants-based costumes, but she's gonna need some visible shoulder and arm muscles if she's gonna look believable.

[Jester]