How do you feel about how the characters were displayed?

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

well in Mikey's defense (2012) He hasn't exactly gotten an episode where he needed to learn to focus more/act mature/ yet.

the only episodes he has had were proving to his brothers that he can be helpful, which he does each and every time....and continues to do....

so he can't really regress if he hasn't learned the lesson to regress from...

does that make sense?

I guess he should have learned not to touch mutagen from Shellacne..but he was doing it so his brothers would like him.

he just needs some character development~ and Ciro said that he's gonna get some~

Oh BabyTurtles... I do admire your optimism for the show, and while I agree 2012 Mikey is overdue for character development, the Shellacne episode undermined Mikey's learning potential where he can't even learn from watching someone else's trauma, and Mikey's supposed to be the "feeler" of the group.

Plus there were the episodes "Parasitica" and "Invasion of the Squirrelanoids" where in those episodes he had to concentrate and focus, but that all went down the toilet, when the show regresses Mikey in being dumb again in subsequent episodes.

Again, while I do agree 2012 Mikey needs vast improvement, currently though the show has regressed whatever little advancement was there.

[Leo656]

Mikey long ago got dealt the "Eternally Comic Relief" card. Sustained character development simply isn't allowed when status quo dictates most of a show's "comedy" revolves around "How many jokes about a character 'getting dropped on his head as a baby' can we make?"

See also: Daffy Duck, Uncle Joey from "Full House", Cody from "Step By Step"... when the series bible describes a character as "Lovable Idiot", that's all they're ever going to be.

The best one can ever hope for with any of these characters is for those few episodes where they're treated more like a savant, and less like someone who ought to still be dabbling in finger-paints. They haven't yet found a good balance with Mikey but I doubt they ever will. For the writers, it's his sole identifying trait. Take that away and he's just a watered-down version of the others.

It's one of the problems with "group" shows in general. Everyone HAS to be a "type" and stay that way, or else they're not unique.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Mikey long ago got dealt the "Eternally Comic Relief" card. Sustained character development simply isn't allowed when status quo dictates most of a show's "comedy" revolves around "How many jokes about a character 'getting dropped on his head as a baby' can we make?"

See also: Daffy Duck, Uncle Joey from "Full House", Cody from "Step By Step"... when the series bible describes a character as "Lovable Idiot", that's all they're ever going to be.

The best one can ever hope for with any of these characters is for those few episodes where they're treated more like a savant, and less like someone who ought to still be dabbling in finger-paints. They haven't yet found a good balance with Mikey but I doubt they ever will. For the writers, it's his sole identifying trait. Take that away and he's just a watered-down version of the others.

It's one of the problems with "group" shows in general. Everyone HAS to be a "type" and stay that way, or else they're not unique.

I guess with me, the reason I enjoyed OT Michelangelo's character far more was that his humor revolved around his eccentricities, idiosyncratic nature, and over-the-top enthusiasm for the smallest and trivial fun things in life while more or less having "normal" intelligence , unlike with 2K3 Mikey and 2012 Mikey where their humor is primarily based on their stupidity.

[Leo656]

He does sometimes seem like he ought to be wearing a helmet in the Nick show.

If they all had the same influences and upbringing, there really isn't any good reason why he's SO dim compared to the rest of them, other than "That's what the show dictates." And maybe to give the kids watching the show a character they can feel smarter than.

Neither really justifies it.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

Oh BabyTurtles... I do admire your optimism for the show, and while I agree 2012 Mikey is overdue for character development, the Shellacne episode undermined Mikey's learning potential where he can't even learn from watching someone else's trauma, and Mikey's supposed to be the "feeler" of the group.

Plus there were the episodes "Parasitica" and "Invasion of the Squirrelanoids" where in those episodes he had to concentrate and focus, but that all went down the toilet, when the show regresses Mikey in being dumb again in subsequent episodes.

Again, while I do agree 2012 Mikey needs vast improvement, currently though the show has regressed whatever little advancement was there.

can't help myself~ positivity is fun....but I've been negative before~ coughAprilcough....


ANYWAY Parasitica and Squirrelanoids were episode where his brothers wouldn't listen to him and he had to do something to prove them wrong.

and even though he had to focus in those episodes he didn't actually learn anything....

in both those episodes his brothers were the "wrong" ones not Mikey. Even in Shellacne in the end his brothers were "wrong" for not listening to Mikey. Thats what the episodes show...each time...it ends with "You were the hero Mikey" or "we should have listened to you Mikey" and even "Mikey you had everything you needed inside"

Mikey needs an episode where he's the wrong one and needs to make up for it. He needs to feel bad for his actions, thus learning a lesson *_*


also....I've always liked the idiot characters >3> I don't know why..but when a character is slightly dumb but can kick-butt it's amusing to watch XD

[Leo656]

I think I liked Mikey best in the Archie comics. He had his comic relief moments, but plenty of serious and flat-out heroic ones, too. I think it was the most well-rounded version of the character there's ever been. And I don't recall a moment in the book where he was ever face-palmingly stupid, either.

There were some good character moments for all four in the Archie book.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

http://25.media.tumblr.com/ab4b98e19...cbm7o1_500.gif

can't help myself~ positivity is fun....but I've been negative before~ coughAprilcough....


ANYWAY Parasitica and Squirrelanoids were episode where his brothers wouldn't listen to him and he had to do something to prove them wrong.

and even though he had to focus in those episodes he didn't actually learn anything....

in both those episodes his brothers were the "wrong" ones not Mikey. Even in Shellacne in the end his brothers were "wrong" for not listening to Mikey. Thats what the episodes show...each time...it ends with "You were the hero Mikey" or "we should have listened to you Mikey" and even "Mikey you had everything you needed inside"

Mikey needs an episode where he's the wrong one and needs to make up for it. He needs to feel bad for his actions, thus learning a lesson *_*


also....I've always liked the idiot characters >3> I don't know why..but when a character is slightly dumb but can kick-butt it's amusing to watch XD

In those two episodes "Parasitica" and "...Squrrielanoids", I was discussing more about his character depiction where Mikey displayed a significant amount of intellect capability, but then the show pushes him back in being dumb.
As for "learning a lesson", in my eyes, it would be in regards to life experience after witnessing such a dark moment in the series. Plus wasn't he the "wrong one" in the Shellacne episode? Hopefully the show made him learn this time about the mutagen.

...But anyways this all ties in to my stance about the Nick series in general:

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

I want to be enthusiastic for the show, but for me, the Nick show is dropping the ball too often here to effectively display believable character growth that I was hoping for (in which Nick displayed the potential for) back in the first season. Pushing aside my own personal preferences of characterization, humor, visual design of the characters, tone of the show, and plot twists, from a storytelling perspective, how can I take the show's drama as seriously as it wants me to believe, when the characters don't follow through on the show's own intense dramatic points?

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

In those two episodes "Parasitica" and "...Squrrielanoids", I was discussing more about his character depiction where Mikey displayed a significant amount of intellect capability, but then the show pushes him back in being dumb.
As for "learning a lesson", in my eyes, it would be in regards to life experience after witnessing such a dark moment in the series. Plus wasn't he the "wrong one" in the Shellacne episode? Hopefully the show made him learn this time about the mutagen.

OH! I agree that Mikey's intelligence is not constant at all XD some writers do him justice while others just don't seem to grasp Mikey's personality and make him dumb.

in "It came from the depths" Mikey wasn't dumb at all, he was shown as sensitive and caring to Leatherhead

even in "Squirrelanoids" he didn't do anything stupid....in fact he predicted everything that was gonna happen XD and made a plan against the squirrels that worked!

but there are episodes like "Mutation situation" where I'm just sitting there thinking....did they read Mikey's lines before they passed them!?

:3 but it's not that often to bother me~ and even if he says 1 or 2 stupid things in an episode, it doesn't last long and he makes up for it with this ninja skillz~ and silly attitude ^_^

Ciro even admitted...that "Mikey was too stupid at first" and that he has to make sure the writers aren't making him too dumb and puts alot of his lines in the trash XD he call it the Mikey pass I think.

they said that they made Mikey this way to give him alot of room from development later. So I'm sure they'll get to it it seems he has a good amount of episodes this season~ unlike last season where he only had 3 to himself.

I'm thinking later season 2 we'll start seeing Mikey wise up a bit Greg says he'll get smarter in his own way.

[turtlefanforever]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections;

2012 Mikey, they consistently regress his character to being dumb again... and again.

The OT Turtles and First movie Turtles, are probably the only depictions of the Turtles where I enjoy all four of their characters.

Couldn't agree more!

[Leofan26]

Mikey is the one I have trouble with, each series it like they keep making him more stupid, potty humor blah. It's the 2003 and 2012 series that have made him my least favorite of the turtles, other shows I had no problem with him. I really hope the writers try to fix this the later half of season two cuz in my opinion his character is getting worse.

[RaphAndDonnie]

When it comes to Michelangelo I have to agree with 2k3's version being the most annoying. They really...forced the comic relief with him. I like 2k3 and all but Mikey's not really one of the aspects I enjoy too much I personally prefer the first movie's version and the 2k12 version.

In the first movie they balenced the comedy and seriousness, especially with Mikey. In the 2k12 version I don't really see him as stupid, just a bit dim sometimes and it kind of irks me when people say he's downright stupid, because he's cearly not. He's proven his intelligence a few times. I do have to agree that his intelligence depends on the writers a lot of the time and I hope that they can make his intelligence shine a bit more as the seasons go on

[BabyTurtles]

I see 2012 Mikey as imaginative.

and I read creative people have short attention spans and are easily distracted XD

I can relate to that... focusing is hard when you daydream....everyday..every minute....I can block out an entire class lesson. (which is bad..I wouldn't recommend)

so when People say Mikey is stupid...I feel like it's a little unfair...he's NOT stupid....he's just in his own world, not paying attention...seeing things his own way.

I think that's why I like him so much~ People usually choose the turtle they most relate too after all

[turtlefanforever]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

I see 2012 Mikey as imaginative.

Well now you're just splitting hairs.

[Jester]

Splliting hairs = making an observation about a character...

M'kay.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by turtlefanforever

Well now you're just splitting hairs.

he isn't??

he had a dream about himself and Donnie as cowboys solving the mystery of who stole a diamond XD spoiler alert it was the CLOWN!

and his personal dream is to find a mummy and become a rapping duo...while flying on a spaceship.

and he as the coolest looking skateboard! that's some nice art XD

also demon cheese monsters....

OH! and the food recipes he makes....smoothie and pizza....pizza noodle soup...

I don't know....I think that's pretty imaginative

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Well, he's always been the most creative and artistically inclined of the four. He became a writer in Mirage, after all. I'd say that says a lot about his character. Perhaps those bits were Nick's way of paying tribute to that trait.

[plastroncafe]

I would not agree with the idea that the four of them have had their equal time in the limelight.

One thing the Nick show got right was the lampshading of Raph and Leo being the A-Team, with Mike and Donnie being the B-Team. That's pretty much how it's always gone down, which is sad...but what happens when you base your character design on archetypes and not fully fleshed out people.

Mike usually gets the shaft in characterization because Competent Comic Relief is hard to come by, and apparently equally as hard to write as a three dimensional female character.

I do give Nick and Ciro a whole lot of credit with the characterization they've created in the new cartoons. I like bully Raph, and over-eager Leo. I really love watching Don get flustered, and Mike's plots would be far harder to get through without Cipes making the little ankle-biter so damn endearing.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

I would not agree with the idea that the four of them have had their equal time in the limelight.

One thing the Nick show got right was the lampshading of Raph and Leo being the A-Team, with Mike and Donnie being the B-Team. That's pretty much how it's always gone down, which is sad...but what happens when you base your character design on archetypes and not fully fleshed out people.

Mike usually gets the shaft in characterization because Competent Comic Relief is hard to come by, and apparently equally as hard to write as a three dimensional female character.

I do give Nick and Ciro a whole lot of credit with the characterization they've created in the new cartoons. I like bully Raph, and over-eager Leo. I really love watching Don get flustered, and Mike's plots would be far harder to get through without Cipes making the little ankle-biter so damn endearing.

yea Mikey does get away with alot because he's so darn adorable.

He can literally say something facepalm worthy...but then he makes a face...

and I forget why I was mad at him. They're lucky they have Greg on the voice team XD they can get away with more stuff

in fact all the turtles are pretty adorable.....I can't stay mad at any of them for long.

I remember I was getting upset with Donnie and his April obessesion...but then he just does his Donnie thing....and I forgive him XD

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

I do give Nick and Ciro a whole lot of credit with the characterization they've created in the new cartoons. I like bully Raph, and over-eager Leo. I really love watching Don get flustered, and Mike's plots would be far harder to get through without Cipes making the little ankle-biter so damn endearing.

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

yea Mikey does get away with alot because he's so darn adorable.

He can literally say something facepalm worthy...but then he makes a face...
http://th06.deviantart.net/fs71/200H...xx-d5oah7b.png
and I forget why I was mad at him. They're lucky they have Greg on the voice team XD they can get away with more stuff

That kind of leads to my earlier rant , about how Mikey's cuteness can get away with so much, but with Timothy who's just as cloying with his over-the-top enthusiasm and mistakes is vilified (being not so visually "cute"). Which is something to think about...

[Leo656]

I think part of it is, they overdo that back-and-forth with Mikey between "cute" and "annoying", and so hyperactive, that he almost comes off as way too young, like 10. They all come off much younger this time out - and it definitely works well in some cases; I like the new take on Leo, for example - but whereas some people said they always seemed too old in other versions, I think Mikey comes off a little too young sometimes in this one. Even very hyperactive 13-15 year olds, generally, are a little more "balanced" than Mikey's sometimes shown to be.