Turtles Forever: a direct insult to the old 1987 cartoon?

[FoxBoxKid]

I could argue that the 80's cartoon is an insult to the Mirage comics, but am I going to? No, because it doesn't matter. Even if the 80's Turtles are out of character in Turtles Forever, you still have the original cartoon. It's not like it was replaced.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Powder

This guy's not right in the head.

He's the worst kind of casual. He's the type of casual whose so bad that he doesn't even realize he is a casual.

[Gabriel GP]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

He's the worst kind of casual. He's the type of casual whose so bad that he doesn't even realize he is a casual.

You like to say casual don't you?

[1987]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

He's the worst kind of casual. He's the type of casual whose so bad that he doesn't even realize he is a casual.

better than being a troll over-using the word "casual" and wanting to lock every thread

i feel i have a valid argument here and most people agree that the ot turtles are out of character in "turtles forever"

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by ironman29758

It was just Mikey poking fun, while Donnie admiring April's jumpsuit and the Turtles, April and Casey looking at shock/confusion at the FW Turtles. Then the OT Turtles(voiced by the original actors) at the end doing what they do best. And to be fair the Nick show does seem to have elements from the OT cartoon as well as other versions.

I do think the worst thing they did was have the Turtles do in the movie was crying, running and fear when the situation got to out of hand, yes some of it felt like a good tribute, Some of it felt like a parody/caricature but that was too out of hand even for the movie. I understand they have to differentiate the two groups of Turtles but still.

I though the Nick cartoon treated the old show with respect in that short time frame.

I have a hard time with Turtles forever, because from the old turtles crying with danger came to giving each other noggies ever 15 mins was really not what the 80's turtles were all about. The turtles from the 80's stood there ground and never back away unless force to reteat. And they never cry during the mist of battle. That was what got me upset the most. Sorry guys, even though it was short, Nick did it ten times better than Forever did. Forever was a insult to the old turtles by making them seem like cowards, which they were not. If they can stand there ground vs killer pizzas, than they can take on anything with out acting like cowards.

[Gwydion]

I'm pretty sure I've made my opinions on the OT's portrayal in TF clear in other threads, but just wanted to mention that I love Konchadunga's "scavenger hunt".

There were accurate jokes about the OT in TF (loved the ongoing one about the 4th wall), but I'll always feel those were overshadowed by the over-the-top gags, and it ultimately left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

[Konchadunga]

Originally Posted by FoxBoxKid

I could argue that the 80's cartoon is an insult to the Mirage comics, but am I going to? No, because it doesn't matter. Even if the 80's Turtles are out of character in Turtles Forever, you still have the original cartoon. It's not like it was replaced.

Thing is, calling the Fred Wolf show a direct insult to the Mirage series presumes the writers actually read it. For the short first season, they obviously did, though they made changes they felt were necessitated by cartoon standards. After that, well; I don't see much evidence they paid attention at all.

I think a case can be made, actually, that this lack of fidelity might give the Fred Wolf show staying power compared to the 4Kids show. Because it virtually wiped the slate clean and started from scratch, it had the ability to become its own thing. With 4Kids, they were essentially following but also watering down Mirage constantly, which made it still more exciting than Fred Wolf, but compared to the source material instead, it just feels pointless now.

That being said, the bits of the 4Kids show that more-or-less follow Mirage still are more entertaining than the ones that don't, which is another reason TF pisses me off; by that time, the 4Kids show was in no position to cast stones at Fred Wolf over lack of accuracy.

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

This is the must utterly moronic comment I've read in a while. Most cartoons don't reach 100 episodes, and the fact that the 4kids series made 156 episodes is unbelieveable.

Batman: TAS, one of the greatest cartoons of all time, only lasted about 110 episodes. Superman: TAS was only 54 episodes. Teen Titans was only 65 episodes. Almost all Marvel shows are short-lived.

There aren't many cartoons from the 2000's that aren't comedies that lasted as long as the 4kids series did,

You cant really compare Batman TAS or Superman because the same team did every thing in regards to this.

Bruce Timm and crew pretty much jump from Batman to Superman to Batman Beyond, to Justice League to JLU. It was not like any show got "can", more like the team moving on to the next part in the story. But from Batman to JLU really lasted about 15 or so years.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by turtle1237

You cant really compare Batman TAS or Superman because the same team did every thing in regards to this.

Bruce Timm and crew pretty much jump from Batman to Superman to Batman Beyond, to Justice League to JLU. It was not like any show got "can", more like the team moving on to the next part in the story. But from Batman to JLU really lasted about 15 or so years.

However their shows were still canceled before they ever knew they were getting another series. When Batman and Superman ended they had no clue they would create Justice League in 2000. They simply got lucky.

Superman and Batman Beyond only lasted 54 and 52 episodes respectively. I'm sure those shows would have went on a lot longer if given the chance.

[plastroncafe]

Can we nix the idea that Run Length is indicative of overall quality of the show in question?

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

However their shows were still canceled before they ever knew they were getting another series. When Batman and Superman ended they had no clue they would create Justice League in 2000. They simply got lucky.

Superman and Batman Beyond only lasted 54 and 52 episodes respectively. I'm sure those shows would have went on a lot longer if given the chance.

I did watch the bouns features on all the Batman-JLU dvds, and pretty much they had a feeling that when Superman was wraping up, Justice Leauge was going to happen, but they also needed a "Feel" of a superhero team up, hench why Superman got team ups with Lobo, GL, Batman, Steel ete over the course of the series. To pretty much get ready for this 7 member super team.

At one point the guys were doing 3 shows at once with the New Batman cartoon, Superman and Batman beyond all at once during the end, so they were getting wine down from all the work. If JL got the green light was never 100 percent, but they did know that JL would be possible.

[ABrown]

If anything was an insult to something, I feel like that "Wormquake" episode of the Nick series is a direct insult to Turtles Forever. The 4Kids series already did a portrayal of the original cartoon's turtles. It's bad enough that Nick botched up the dvd, now they pretend like the film didn't even happen.

[BubblyShell22]

Dude, what are you talking about? It was just a short cameo hinting that there might be another cameo and meeting between the Nick Turtles and the FW Turtles. Nothing insulting about that at all considering they actually had the original VAs, which is something TF didn't do.

[sdp]

Why is this turning into a 2k3 vs OT thread? They're different shows and they're both respectably great.

Anyway I fail to see how people don't see it as a caricature or people who justify it as necessary to see the differences between them. The Nick show handled the turtles perfectly, the dorks job was a quick jab and that was it. The eating Pizza was not entirely accurate but it works to show this is a lighter universe however the turtles go into action with their catch phrases. If the Turtles Forever OT Turtles had been in the Nick show they would've run from the problem and given nuggies to each other. The Nick show exagerated the qualities of the OT turtles without making them into parodies. Ironically the 2k3 show made the OT turtles act like Mikey from their own show who was far more goofy than the OT.

Shredder being incompetent? He was actually quite competent for the most part in the OT. In the first two seasons he was seen as this feared opponent the turtles themselves couldn't go against him. Sure most of his plots failed but when he was there for the most part you knew it meant business. In some of the later seasons he does start being less of a threat even when fighting the turtles but that's still less than most of the 100+ episode run. Sure he whined a lot but to say he would let Ch'rell do what he wants is another thing. He didn't suffer that bad from Villain decay as other villains from the OTs generation. I think he was defeated ONCE by having a pizza thrown at his face. The turtles always meant action and while they had fun and never had contact they were not weak or afraid to fight.

No nostalgia glasses here either, while I grew up with the turtles I rarely got to watch the TV show besides the Burger King VHS tapes. I saw most of the show as it came out on DVD. Now why is it upsetting that they treat them like that? Because it was supposed to be a celebration of the turtles with the two shows, they could've handled the "they're goofy" better than treating them like some Looney Toons version of the characters. Instead of being happy that they got one last hoorah they were made fun of. I'm also not trying to say the OT was some epic struggle between Shredder and Krang but between its universe's rules it followed them and was consistent it wasn't Looney Toons logic or only a comedy show and you can't watch Turtles Forever after watching the "wackiest" of the OT's episodes and think they're the same turtles.

[Konchadunga]

Except that depending on which character we're talking about, the Fred Wolf Turtles/villains could've been made like "Looney Toons" and still been competent.

[turtle1237]

I am not saying the show didnt have its goofy movements, from Mikey trying to a giant fly trap fall in love with him, or a ape taking off with April right out of King Kong, or even Irma getting turn into a gaint.

The show had a comic value to it. What Forever did was well, mess the whole thing up. Yes I can take Raphael breaking the 4th wall, because he did that though out the show. I can deal with Don fixing stuff with a flashlight or gum, because he pull it off, but even in the show, they had to make you belive he could do it(Which here they didnt)

Things that did not set well was the noggies all the time, talking about pizza instand of planning on a way of attack, The crying got me the most, being afraid, and not really acting like the OT cartoon turtles.

The show had comic vaule, but they also never ran from a fight.

[billbot85]

Originally Posted by turtle1237

The crying got me the most, being afraid, and not really acting like the OT cartoon turtles.

Yeah, the turtles crying was like a total slap in the face to all fans of the OT. Even though I tried to look at TF through a fair and unbiased perspective in my previous statement, it felt like the overall recurring theme in that movie was the 2k3 series pissing all over the OT series.

[Pterobat]

Well, I'll have you know that my OT cred is off the charts. Don't you dare question it!

Anyway, being angry that Turtles Forever didn't get every tiny detail right, and reducing your rebuttal to the special to a checklist, is not seeing the forest for the trees. No, TF can't be completely accurate to the original cartoon because it's NOT the original cartoon, but an imitation filtered through a different production team.

However, it's an imitation for the purpose of tribute. The special is here to have fun with both universes, and Mirage, too. It's a tribute to all things TMNT.

And sometimes, believe it or not, people mock the things they like. Shocking on the internet, I know. Poking fun at the OT and playing up the contrasts between it and the 4Kids Turtles is'nt "bashing", it's playful, fun mockery.

I'd also like to add that we still don't know how popular or well-remembered the 4Kids series will be in the past, because it's only a decade old--not long enough yet for the wheel of nostalgia to start turning for 00s kids.

Plus, the vast majority of kids who watched it then didn't know Mirage from nothing, so calling the 4Kids series less successful 'cause it was derivative of Mirage doesn't hold water. Most of the viewers didn't know these were adaptations of older comics.

ETA: "Casual" is an idiotic term. Everyone, no matter who they are, has better things to do than police who are "real fans".

[CyberCubed]

I don't get why people complain about the walking banana. Did people not watch the episode where the Turtles fought moving vegetables? (Season 4 finale?)

Not to mention there was a time Michaelangelo fought a pizza that was trying to eat him, even if it was a hologram from a mad scientist.

[turtle1237]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I don't get why people complain about the walking banana. Did people not watch the episode where the Turtles fought moving vegetables? (Season 4 finale?)

Not to mention there was a time Michaelangelo fought a pizza that was trying to eat him, even if it was a hologram from a mad scientist.

I not complaining about the banana, The turtles in its ten seasons fought all kinds of odd stuff from pizza meat balls to alien kids toys to even a computer trying to take over the world with toasters and freezers. I have nothing against the 2003 series, 7 seasons, over all a good run and fun to watch. Loved the show.

It was the way they pretty much insulted the old show with how the 80's turtles were acting in that cross over, From the noggies, to running away scared, and I not even going to get into how Shredder and Krang were protrey.

I think the tickle ray gun in the end was too much for showing suppose how lame 80's Shredder was. He didnt even do anything but wait around and let 2003 Shredder do everything pretty much.

OT Shredder at his best was a real threat, from almost cooking the earth, to leading invaded Rock armys, to pretty much making Newton's law invailed.

He even got one over Dredd in the last season. He was a force to recon with. Yeah he may not of been scary like 2003 Shredder, but with his robot armies, he was a very good villian.