Who is the best fighter between Raph and Leo?

~~FellowChucker~~ · 03-21-2014, 01:48 AM

Amongst the brothers? In some incarnations it's Leo, some it's like insinuated to be Raph. I always considered it to be Raphael.

Or is it Raphael is the most eager fighter of the group, the brawn, and Leo is the most skilled who tempers his willigness to fight with reason? I don't know who I'd consider the better fighter between the two.

See their fight in TMNT 2007 as example. Raph is kicking his ass, holding nothing back. Leo is holding his own, but clearly not being as self indulgent with his abilities.

I do think it's cool that Mike is clearly the best innate athlete.

But I always waffle on who the best fighter is of the group. Anyone care to share their thoughts of who, and why?

Also, if you had to rank the martial arts or fighting abilities of everyone in the mythos, how would you rank them?

1) Shredder
2) Splinter
3) Raph / Leo
4) Mikey
5) Don
6) Casey

*Powder* · 03-21-2014, 02:39 AM

I feel like you can't really say one is better than the other. Leo is more calculated whereas Raph is a brawler. They have different strengths but ultimately they're probably equally matched. My bias for Leo wants to lean in his favor, as Raph's anger could get in the way, but all that aside, it also depends on each universe... Overall, I say it's a tie.

*Candy Kappa* · 03-21-2014, 02:59 AM

This topic pops up every now and then, and each time, I still think Leo got the edge as the better fighter over Raph in the overall context. That's not to say Raph can't win over Leo, or that Leo is invincible.

*BabyTurtles* · 03-21-2014, 03:07 AM

the better fighter? probably Leo.....

who would win an actual fight though? depends~

they all have something that could help them win a fight.
Leo most skill
Donnie smartest
Raph strongest
Mikey most agile and unpredictable

Ramboraph4life aka Matt · 03-21-2014, 03:10 AM

It'll sound stupid, but it would just depend on the context of the story told within the fight. I

For example, if at that moment of the story Raph could have moments of clarity to control his anger or use his anger with purpose instead of 'wild & crazy' (like withstanding pain via Adrenaline or such) then Raph could do it.

And you could say/do stuff on the other side for Leo. And I guess, to be honest, you could probably do that for any of the 4 turtles. So it's a hard question to answer.

It's like way back then when people were arguing on who really won the fight in the 2007 film, "Raph or Leo."

Some would say Raph because of the outcome and how close Leo came to getting a Sai to the face.

Others would say Leo did because he was 'holding back' and not 'going at Raph at full force' (for example, the thrust of Leo's sword that went by Raph's face. Did Raph get out of the way in time and do that on his own? Or did Leo hold back/move his sword there on purpose so that he didn't hurt Raph?)

So even in that 2007 fight, it was just on how you looked at it.

Or maybe it's just that old phrase "It's in the Eye of the Beholder."

*BubblyShell22* · 03-21-2014, 08:37 AM

I honestly believe that both are evenly matched in a fight and that one isn't better than the other. They just choose to fight in their own ways.

*pannoni1* · 03-21-2014, 08:38 AM

Overall:

1) Shredder
2) Leo
3) Raph
4) Splinter
5) Donatello
6) Michelangelo

It does show that it takes a team in order to beat Shredder in most cases (possible exception Mirage). Splinter can hold his own for awhile, but will just get defeated by the Shredder just like he did as Hamato Yoshi. Leo and usually Raph tend to have a good passion for Ninja training. Raph's biggest strength is his speed; the Sai can quickly catch an enemy off guard. However, Leonardo tends to be the most versatile and patient in battle, and usually having the best defense, which allows time for the others to take down Shredder. A key moment in Mirage was when Raphael was defeated by the Elite Guard before Leonardo rescued him as he defeated Shredder during RTNY. It's natural that respecting the leader is the one who is overall the best fighter. In the OT the comparison is more lopsided. Leonardo most commonly rescued others and Raphael was more of a goofball in this. The 1990 movie again shows that while Raph is the most daring to battle, he wasn't the one who first knew where Splinter would have been. That movie was unique in that Splinter was clearly more powerful than the other Turtles and even defeated Shredder himself. However, the Nick series is the exception as this Raph is smarter than any previous one yet remains the tough strength found in the Mirage version, and Raph of course defeated Leonardo during the pilot, but simply bragged too much.

*turtlefanforever* · 03-21-2014, 10:53 AM

but essentially it is a toss up. Their fights always go the same. Raph gets angry, leo tries to reason and then fights. And then one of them ends up winning and is like, what are we doing? and then it's back to normal

alliance · 03-21-2014, 12:09 PM

Leonardo, is probably better in every way accept strength and brawling..

Raph may rely too much on rage sure hes probably better when hes in that zone but thats against foot soldiers and those who arent familiar with his style..if theres one being who knows how to take advantage of something like that it would be without question Leonardo,

Davin · 03-21-2014, 03:13 PM

My heart says Raph, only because he's my favorite turtle. But most likely any among that list could win any fight. I'd compare it to competing in any martial art. Some times you lose to people if even if you are "better" than your opponent.

I will say Raph's style will result in a loss of durability over time. Think of an aging boxer whose had too many wars.

Nameless · 03-21-2014, 03:36 PM

Leo wins simple because Raph is a hot head where leo is tactical. skill will beat brute strength every time in my books.

*Warhorse* · 03-21-2014, 05:28 PM

I tend to really not like these, because it seems like in order for Leo to win, Raph has to have a weakness that lets him slip up. I'd like to see what would happen if Raphael did not have his temper (but I guess that's why the creators gave him that weakness, so he don't get too powerful?)

But I am going with depending on the circumstances. Either of the Turtles could have that edge if the time is right.

909 Turtle Fan · 03-22-2014, 01:47 PM

Leonardo would carve up Raphael like a thanksgiving pheasant

*Warhorse* · 03-22-2014, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 909 Turtle Fan

Leonardo would carve up Raphael like a thanksgiving pheasant

What if they didn't have their weapons? No swords, no sais.

*TheBlueTurtle1* · 03-22-2014, 02:32 PM

Leo, simple because he never lets himself overcome with anger, which is what makes Raph wreckless.He lacks discipline. ("you rack a disciprine")

*Warhorse* · 03-22-2014, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueTurtle1

Leo, simple because he never lets himself overcome with anger, which is what makes Raph wreckless.He lacks discipline. ("you rack a disciprine")

And what about the one time Raph controls his anger? He's been known to do that too!

*BabyTurtles* · 03-22-2014, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBlueTurtle1

Leo, simple because he never lets himself overcome with anger, which is what makes Raph wreckless.He lacks discipline. ("you rack a disciprine")

that's true...but then how come he did better in that 2007 raph/leo fight when he got angrier?

*Warhorse* · 03-22-2014, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

that's true...but then how come he did better in that 2007 raph/leo fight when he got angrier?

Oh, and then there was the one 2k3 episode. They spend the entire series, preaching to us that Raph will never be the best because of his hot headedness, his anger and what not. Then there was that heated sparring match with Leo and Splinter, and Leo was all pissed off because his girlfriend stabbed him in the back, and he got so angry, he over powered Splinter and accidentally cut him in the head. So, so much for that theory of Anger clouding the mind.

But then, we could look at things this way, Raphael has stages of anger. Most are on the surface, petty things like insults. That kind of anger does throw him under the bus, but then there is that deep down anger, the one that he tends to keep in check most of the time, but it takes something special for that beast to awaken, and then it's all over. Like the almost killing Mikey in 2k3, almost killing Leo in 2007, almost killing Casey in 2012, and almost killing Karai in 2k3. I guess it's a good thing Splinter and his brothers are in his life, he easily could have gone down the path of Darth Vader.

909 Turtle Fan · 03-22-2014, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhorse

What if they didn't have their weapons? No swords, no sais.

I think Leo would still win. Maybe with some kind of submission hold

*Warhorse* · 03-22-2014, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 909 Turtle Fan

I think Leo would still win. Maybe with some kind of submission hold

But Raph is stronger and faster? And he knows about pressure points too? See, it's not so cut and dry as people like to think. I bet if you even got Donnie pissed off enough, he'd over power Leo and Raph as well. It depends on the circumstances.

03-21-2014, 01:48 AM	#1
~~FellowChucker~~ Banned Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 113	Who is the best fighter between Raph and Leo? Amongst the brothers? In some incarnations it's Leo, some it's like insinuated to be Raph. I always considered it to be Raphael. Or is it Raphael is the most eager fighter of the group, the brawn, and Leo is the most skilled who tempers his willigness to fight with reason? I don't know who I'd consider the better fighter between the two. See their fight in TMNT 2007 as example. Raph is kicking his ass, holding nothing back. Leo is holding his own, but clearly not being as self indulgent with his abilities. I do think it's cool that Mike is clearly the best innate athlete. But I always waffle on who the best fighter is of the group. Anyone care to share their thoughts of who, and why? Also, if you had to rank the martial arts or fighting abilities of everyone in the mythos, how would you rank them? 1) Shredder 2) Splinter 3) Raph / Leo 4) Mikey 5) Don 6) Casey

03-21-2014, 02:59 AM	#3
Candy Kappa The Agenda of Existing Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vikingland Posts: 14,596	This topic pops up every now and then, and each time, I still think Leo got the edge as the better fighter over Raph in the overall context. That's not to say Raph can't win over Leo, or that Leo is invincible. __________________ devianArt Instagram Youtube Tumblr Art Blog Patreon

03-21-2014, 03:07 AM	#4
BabyTurtles Foot Elite Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 4,177	the better fighter? probably Leo..... who would win an actual fight though? depends~ they all have something that could help them win a fight. Leo most skill Donnie smartest Raph strongest Mikey most agile and unpredictable __________________

03-21-2014, 08:37 AM	#6
BubblyShell22 Leo-holic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 16,912	I honestly believe that both are evenly matched in a fight and that one isn't better than the other. They just choose to fight in their own ways. __________________ "A warrior who never fails, never learns."-The Ancient One. "Embrace your inner a**holiness."-Mr. Anderson.

03-21-2014, 08:38 AM	#7
pannoni1 Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: USA Posts: 3,447	Overall: 1) Shredder 2) Leo 3) Raph 4) Splinter 5) Donatello 6) Michelangelo It does show that it takes a team in order to beat Shredder in most cases (possible exception Mirage). Splinter can hold his own for awhile, but will just get defeated by the Shredder just like he did as Hamato Yoshi. Leo and usually Raph tend to have a good passion for Ninja training. Raph's biggest strength is his speed; the Sai can quickly catch an enemy off guard. However, Leonardo tends to be the most versatile and patient in battle, and usually having the best defense, which allows time for the others to take down Shredder. A key moment in Mirage was when Raphael was defeated by the Elite Guard before Leonardo rescued him as he defeated Shredder during RTNY. It's natural that respecting the leader is the one who is overall the best fighter. In the OT the comparison is more lopsided. Leonardo most commonly rescued others and Raphael was more of a goofball in this. The 1990 movie again shows that while Raph is the most daring to battle, he wasn't the one who first knew where Splinter would have been. That movie was unique in that Splinter was clearly more powerful than the other Turtles and even defeated Shredder himself. However, the Nick series is the exception as this Raph is smarter than any previous one yet remains the tough strength found in the Mirage version, and Raph of course defeated Leonardo during the pilot, but simply bragged too much. __________________ http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...d.php?t=37065- MY WANT LIST TMNT FAN CLUB LINK: http://sot.ag/gCjK/ 30 years of Turtle Power!

03-21-2014, 02:39 AM	#2
Powder 40 Years of TMNT Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell-Ri-La Posts: 26,954	I feel like you can't really say one is better than the other. Leo is more calculated whereas Raph is a brawler. They have different strengths but ultimately they're probably equally matched. My bias for Leo wants to lean in his favor, as Raph's anger could get in the way, but all that aside, it also depends on each universe... Overall, I say it's a tie.

03-21-2014, 03:10 AM	#5
Ramboraph4life aka Matt Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2004 Location: North Liberty, Iowa Posts: 1,234	It'll sound stupid, but it would just depend on the context of the story told within the fight. I For example, if at that moment of the story Raph could have moments of clarity to control his anger or use his anger with purpose instead of 'wild & crazy' (like withstanding pain via Adrenaline or such) then Raph could do it. And you could say/do stuff on the other side for Leo. And I guess, to be honest, you could probably do that for any of the 4 turtles. So it's a hard question to answer. It's like way back then when people were arguing on who really won the fight in the 2007 film, "Raph or Leo." Some would say Raph because of the outcome and how close Leo came to getting a Sai to the face. Others would say Leo did because he was 'holding back' and not 'going at Raph at full force' (for example, the thrust of Leo's sword that went by Raph's face. Did Raph get out of the way in time and do that on his own? Or did Leo hold back/move his sword there on purpose so that he didn't hurt Raph?) So even in that 2007 fight, it was just on how you looked at it. Or maybe it's just that old phrase "It's in the Eye of the Beholder."

03-21-2014, 10:53 AM	#8
turtlefanforever Foot Elite Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 3,098	Leo but essentially it is a toss up. Their fights always go the same. Raph gets angry, leo tries to reason and then fights. And then one of them ends up winning and is like, what are we doing? and then it's back to normal

03-21-2014, 12:09 PM	#9
alliance Hench Mutant Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 328	Leonardo, is probably better in every way accept strength and brawling.. Raph may rely too much on rage sure hes probably better when hes in that zone but thats against foot soldiers and those who arent familiar with his style..if theres one being who knows how to take advantage of something like that it would be without question Leonardo, __________________ 80's TURTLES MUCH COOLER THAN FORGOTTEN 4KIDS

03-21-2014, 03:13 PM	#10
Davin Stone Warrior Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: ...into the night Posts: 899	My heart says Raph, only because he's my favorite turtle. But most likely any among that list could win any fight. I'd compare it to competing in any martial art. Some times you lose to people if even if you are "better" than your opponent. I will say Raph's style will result in a loss of durability over time. Think of an aging boxer whose had too many wars.

03-21-2014, 03:36 PM	#11
Nameless Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 1,042	Leo wins simple because Raph is a hot head where leo is tactical. skill will beat brute strength every time in my books. __________________ "Close. But close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.... Knew i should have brought those grenades." My Collection:http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...09#post1103509

03-21-2014, 05:28 PM	#12
Warhorse Emperor Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 5,544	I tend to really not like these, because it seems like in order for Leo to win, Raph has to have a weakness that lets him slip up. I'd like to see what would happen if Raphael did not have his temper (but I guess that's why the creators gave him that weakness, so he don't get too powerful?) But I am going with depending on the circumstances. Either of the Turtles could have that edge if the time is right.

03-22-2014, 01:47 PM	#13
909 Turtle Fan Hench Mutant Join Date: May 2008 Location: Eastbound & Down Posts: 477	Leonardo would carve up Raphael like a thanksgiving pheasant __________________ "Infinite possibilities have been opened to me thanks to this...Technodrome."-Ch'rell aka The Shredder, Turtles Forever "Breathe in the smoke, Oroku Saki, and meditate. Open your mind and all will become clear."-Kitsune, SHotFC #3

03-22-2014, 02:32 PM	#15
TheBlueTurtle1 Foot Elite Join Date: May 2012 Location: UK Posts: 2,892	Leo, simple because he never lets himself overcome with anger, which is what makes Raph wreckless.He lacks discipline. ("you rack a disciprine") __________________ http://jandmdev.deviantart.com/ (My Brother and I have a dev page, I am J, brother is M)