Alan Moore's The Killing Joke

[JakeSully]

Loved this one since junior high and always been one of my favorites.

One of Moore's best stories even if Moore himself doesn't like it, i thought it was a great take on Joker's past and present.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I've actually never read it

Wait

Why are you looking at me like that?

[ZariusTwo]

Grant Morrison recently brought this back into the limelight when he revealed that he interpreted the ending as Batman killing The Joker...the very same conclusion I came to after reading it as a kid.

Too bad it's long-term impact has finally been nullified what with Barbera running around as Batgirl again. God I miss Oracle.

[DoctorFacilier]

It's great but my favorite has to be Year One, it's the purest batman story ever written.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by whatswiththeheadbands?

I've actually never read it

Wait

Why are you looking at me like that?

You should try and give it a read really great Joker story.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Grant Morrison recently brought this back into the limelight when he revealed that he interpreted the ending

Spoiler:

as Batman killing The Joker...the very same conclusion I came to after reading it as a kid.

Too bad it's long-term impact has finally been nullified what with Barbera running around as Batgirl again. God I miss Oracle.

I actually completely missed that interpretation,but thats bc I saw the Dark Knight Return animated movie before hand which almost completely follows the comic except for the internal monologue.

Killing Joke was supposable suppose to be the last Joker story supposably.
Frank Miller kind of screwed the pooch on that one.

[Cipher]

I'm a decently big Batman fan, but I've never had any interest in reading it, mostly because it's only available in collected-edition-priced hardcovers.

It just sounds really ... trite. I can see why Moore would have looked less favorably on it later years. I love Watchmen to bits, but most of his commercial superhero work isn't that layered or successful.

[LeonardosBane]

Originally Posted by Cipher

It just sounds really ... trite.

Maybe you should actually read it before passing judgement.

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by LeonardosBane

Maybe you should actually read it before passing judgement.

I'll read it when I find it at the price of a normal comic.

But I'm also capable of making the judgement that I don't want to pay the prices it goes for based on previews and endless summaries I've read.

[LeonardosBane]

Originally Posted by Cipher

I'll read it when I find it at the price of a normal comic.

But I'm also capable of making the judgement that I don't want to pay the prices it goes for based on previews and endless summaries I've read.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/ol/14012...8662104&sr=8-1
https://m.comixology.com/Batman-The-...al-comic/48363

Don't see anything absurd about that, it's longer than a normal comic, pretty normal.

[DonnyMac]

I LOVE The Killing Joke, its one of my favorite Batman stories. I recommend this to everyone who asks me what comics they should read.

[shuriken]

It's a great read and I Don't even remember if I still have it. But to me that just shows what a twisted individual the Joker is, torturing Gordon and maiming Barbara, just to prove a point. The long Halloween is still my fave Batman story though.

[Leo656]

It's great. Moore's just one of those guys who over-analyzes his own work. And I don't think it's *that* over-priced if you know where to look. I swear I've seen later print copies for like $5. I'm pretty sure it's just the original first-print that's expensive.

I mean, at the end of the day, it probably can't live up to anyone's mental picture after a decade or more of reading *about* it once that person actually reads it, but what makes it so great is, it's THE definitive Joker story. It's literally the only Joker story anyone would ever need to read in their entire lives. The most epic, the one with the most long-term impact to the overall mythos? Maybe, maybe not. But it's the only one that is, in and of itself, entirely *essential*. A person could know literally nothing about The Joker, and this one self-contained story tells you everything. It's a great character piece, and since then it's almost become more prominent in how much of the Joker material since then has come to rely on it in various ways.

As far as different interpretations of the ending, well...

Spoiler:

Moore's original script says nothing at all about Batman killing the Joker at the end, and since his scripts are usually very highly detailed, it stands to reason that if that was the intended reading, it would have been mentioned in the script itself even if it wasn't explicitly spelled out on the page. Moore's scripts have line after line about things like ripples in a puddle and stuff... he more than likely would have mentioned "...and then Batman leans over and snaps his neck" or whatever, even if it was sort of ambiguous to the reader.

I also don't think Moore would have bothered keeping it a secret, especially for this many years, since he's never been too shy about explaining exactly what all of his stories are about in painstaking detail. He doesn't really care about Killing Joke, so it makes little sense that he would try and sneak something like that in there and never tell anyone, just to trump it up a bit. He always says it's not a bad story but it "bores" him. By now, he would definitely have said, "It bores me, but you know what I snuck in there that hardly anyone noticed...?"

So, not "Officially" debunked, as far as I know, but if it wasn't written that way, it's just one of those fan speculation things that makes for conversation. You can read it that way, but it almost definitely wasn't written that way.

[Slade]

Guess I'm gonna have to break the trade I have out again and give it another read.

[Voltron]

I loved the book. I just don't like the ending. I'm a purist when it comes to the "no-killing" code of Batman. I think it's a really important part of the character and blah, blah, blah.

I understand what Moore was getting at. The Joker won. He just. . . broke Batman instead of Gordon.

Awesome book, either way.

[TMNT_Guy]

Originally Posted by Voltron

I loved the book. I just don't like the ending. I'm a purist when it comes to the "no-killing" code of Batman. I think it's a really important part of the character and blah, blah, blah.

I understand what Moore was getting at. The Joker won. He just. . . broke Batman instead of Gordon.

I'm a bit confused by your post. Batman didn't kill anyone in the book. Also, the Joker didn't win, Batman and the Joker laughing at the joke in the end is supposed to represent that both of them are equally insane, it’s just that they choose to act out their insanity in different ways.

“You had a bad day once, am I right? I know I am. I can tell you had a bad day and everything changed. Why else would you dress up like a flying rat?”

[JamieH]

The ending is left to the reader's interpretation, but it has been noted that Moore meant for Batman to kill the Joker.

The Killing Joke was never meant to be canon, it was originally meant to be an Elseworlds story. But parts of it did become canon, such as Barbara becoming crippled. So officially, Bats didn't kill Joker at the end.

Yet, if you look at the last few panels it shows the Joker laughing, panel by panel his laughter is coming down, until it suddenly stops. Batman's hands were shown around the Joker's neck before this. So, it's still possible to come to the conclusion that the Joker finally pushed Batman too far and cracked him.

[Leo656]

Again, I can see why it can be *interpreted* that way, but just curious: Where's your source to confirm that Joker did indeed die at the end? Because literally every time I've ever read anything about it, nobody's ever heard Moore himself say so. And like I said before, since he so often publicly dissects his own work, I think he would have said something about it by now.

If he has confirmed it, great. But again, just curious... is there a source, or just "well, that's what it seems like happened"? Because when it comes to any of Alan Moore's stuff, if he doesn't flat-out say so, I don't buy it.

[TMNT_Guy]

Huh, I was unaware of this theory until now.

From what I can tell, this misconception comes from the book "And the Universe so Big: Understanding Batman: The Killing Joke" and popularised by a podcast interview with Grant Morrision, however since niether didn’t work on the book it’s nothing more than fan speculation. Also, Batman’s hands are clearly not around the Joker’s neck. Not to mention nowhere in the original script is this mentioned.

I think it’s an interesting way to look at the ending, but I don’t think it should be treated as fact.

[Leo656]

Yeah, like I said, Alan Moore loves to talk about his stuff. Almost 30 years, and he never said, "And nobody even noticed where I killed The Joker..."

Some people are mysterious and some people are wide open. Moore doesn't even like Killing Joke, so he'd have no reason not to "spoil" the "hidden ending". Unless he himself says so, I'm saying it's not true. He of all people would have said so, were it true. Just an interesting alternative reading/interpretation.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Too bad it's long-term impact has finally been nullified what with Barbera running around as Batgirl again. God I miss Oracle.

I also miss Stephanie as Batgirl. I think DC's excuse was that Barbara is more recognizable.

I'll have to re-read The Killing Joke sometime. Alan Moore's run on Swamp Thing was awesome too. If you haven't read it yet, track it down. Even the "filler" stories are memorable.