Could we be getting Tengu Shredder?

[Puddinpop]

Okay.. I know that there was an earlier thread about Utroms but not the Tengu Shredder. So forgive me if this new thread annoys you. I think this warrants a new discussion about what this origin story could possibly be about. I've been doing a little research about the different versions of Shredder and what Fichtner could have been referring to when he said that " there are guys that become Shredder" in an interview. So don't read this if your one of those people that doesn't want to know anything before seeing the film ok. This is purely speculation though. I think that there are MAJOR Easter eggs in the scroll posted a while back. The fact that the studio had requested not to have any HD shots of it posted tells me that it is important to the story. Heres some info from Wiki on the different versions of Shredder. Some of you have asked " why the white powerful businessman".. There is a way it could work. It is quite interesting and Id rather have this version in a movie bc we never saw this story in a movie before. For those of you that favor the 03 series you might also find this interesting after reading this. This could be EPIC if done right. Again I'm speculating but it looks like a possibility. Ive highlighted certain things I thought were relevant and important in CAPS, just so you know, the CAPS are me ok. Anyways.. take a look at this from Wiki:

In the 2003 animated series, the "Shredder" title is used for four separate villains:

Utrom Shredder

Ch'rell as the Utrom Shredder.

Ch'rell as "Oroku Saki".
The Utrom Shredder is the central antagonist of the series and the most recurring villain. He was the main Shredder; he has the most history with the Turtles and Splinter. He is called the Utrom Shredder as he is NOT TRULY HUMAN, but an UTROM named Ch'rell who uses an UTROM EXO-SUIT ( A HUMANOID VESSEL ). He is voiced by Scottie Ray.

Ch'rell is a dangerous enemy of the Utroms; as it would happen, he was being transported as their prisoner but escaped and sabotaged their spacecraft. The Utrom crash-landed on Earth during the Sengoku period of FEUDAL JAPANESE history, forced into hiding using their EXO-SUITS. Ch'rell confiscated one such suit and used the LEGEND OF THE DEMON SHREDDER TO CRAFT A NEW IDENTITY. BECOMING OROKU SAKI AND THE NEW SHREDDER. He also founded the Foot Clan, which grew into a massive underground criminal empire by the 20th century. In the late 20th century, he discovers an abandoned girl named KARAI, whom he ADOPTED AND TRAINED. Outside of the Utroms, SHE is the ONLY one initially to KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT HIM. Despite not being the demonic VERSION of the Shredder, Ch'rell is shown to have contacts with the mystical world, visible by the fact that some of his minions are supernatural beings. Throughout it all, Shredder hunts for the Utroms to exact his revenge and prevent them from re-capturing him.

While in New York City to establish a branch of the clan there, Shredder locates HAMATO YOSHI, one of the Utroms' foremost guardians, and kills him after failing to force their location from him. During the struggle, Yoshi's PET RAT, Splinter, escapes and winds up in the city's sewers where he and four baby turtles are ACCIDENTALLY exposed to mutagenic ooze CREATED BY the UTROMS and consequently mutate into sentient HUMANOID forms.

Fifteen years later, the Turtles begin encountering the Foot Clan and unknowingly foil several of Shredder's plans. SHREDDER REVEALS HIMSELF to the Turtles and (after failing to make them ally with him) becomes their bitter enemy. He loses his first major battle against them and Splinter, but he later deals them a crushing defeat, in which Leonardo is severely beaten, April O'Neil's antique shop is burned to the ground and everyone is presumed dead. After recovering out of town, Leonardo leads his brothers and Splinter in an attack on Foot headquarters, culminating in Shredder's beheading. Not knowing his Utrom nature, the Turtles think him dead.

However, Ch'rell survived, but was gravely injured. As his body was healed, Karai assumed LEADERSHIP of the Foot Clan, ending an ensuing war for CONTROL OF NEW YORK CITY and supposedly making peace with the Turtles. But when Ch'rell returned, he vowed to destroy the Turtles by any means necessary. After the Turtles help repel a Triceraton invasion, New York City is heavily damaged. OROKU SAKI STEPS FORWARD TO HELP REBUILD, SPENDING MILLIONS AS A COVER TO RETRIEVE TRICERATON TECHNOLOGY THAT WAS LEFT BEHIND. He has a spacecraft constructed, so that he may leave before the Utroms return for him. It is completed, but his plan suffers complications courtesy of the Turtles, their allies and Agent Bishop. The ship is launched, but the Turtles and Splinter sneak aboard. In a more powerful exo-suit, he easily defeats them. The Turtles and Splinter self-destruct the ship to stop the Shredder, but the timely arrival of the Utroms saves all their lives. On the Utrom homeworld, Ch'rell is placed on trial, found guilty and sentenced to eternal exile on an icy asteroid.
In the Fast Forward season episode, "Timing is Everything," Leonardo and Cody Jones are accidentally SENT BACK to just after the Utrom Shredder's first defeat. Before returning to 2105, Leonardo briefly battles him and Shredder notices "something different" about his foe. Later, Shredder and several Foot ninjas are transported to 2105. They are, however, easily outmatched by their more advanced foes.
In "Same As It Never Was", an alternate future showed Ch'rell ruling Earth with an iron fist and poised to take over other planets. He is later killed by Donatello. In "Tempus Fugit", the future is shown in which the Shredders (Utrom, Tengu, and Cyber) engage in a war for control of the city. The Turtles use part of this Shredder's exo-suit to help repair android Serling and return to their own time. This future would have happened in the next season of "Back to the Sewer", but because it got cancelled this was never shown.
In Turtles Forever, Ch'rell is brought back from his exile by his counterpart from the 1987 series. Ch'rell then takes over the Technodrome and examines various alternate realities. Finding reality after reality of heroic Turtles, Ch'rell vows to eliminate them all by destroying the prime dimension.

Tengu Shredder " NOW THIS I FIND VERY INTRIGUING WHEN CONSIDERING THE SCROLL "

The Tengu Shredder was the original Shredder and a DEMON FROM ANCIENT JAPAN. He POSSESSED A HUMAN NAMED OROKU SAKI, and was eventually defeated and sealed away in a casket. HE ESCAPES IN THE MODERN DAY AND IS DEFEATED BY THE TURTLES and their allies. The Tengu Shredder is also voiced by Scottie Ray.

COULD THIS BE WHAT WE SEE IN THE SCROLL?

In Japan circa 300 AD, a powerful demon THREATENS THE PEOPLE. In an attempt to stop him, the EMPEROR OF JAPAN RECRUITS POWERFUL WARRIORS: the FIVE DRAGONS, who clad themselves in armor enchanted by DRAGON SPIRITS. The demon appeared to be defeated by one of the dragons, OROKU SAKI. However, before the final blow was delivered, the demon contacted Saki on a mental plane and offered him great power. Saki agreed, allowing the demon's soul to INHABIT HIS BODY. Reborn as the Tengu Shredder, Saki SEIZED CONTROL OF THE LAND. THE FOUR REMAINING DRAGONS (the Ninja Tribunal) TRAINED AND ACQUIRED MORE POWER TO DEFEAT THEIR FORMER FRIEND, which they were eventually able to do. They SEALED AWAY HIS BODY IN A CASKET AND HID IT AWAY, AS WELL AS THE SEPARATED HELMET AND GAUNTLET. The Ninja Tribunal began a seemingly eternal watch to make sure the three artifacts would never be reunited, as doing so would revive the Tengu Shredder. The Tengu Shredder was not forgotten by followers, the Heralds, who had long since sought to restore their master, but were impeded by being under the control of the Utrom Shredder and then Karai. However, they successfully managed to manipulate the Turtles and Agent Bishop into setting them free, allowing them to proceed with resurrecting their master. The Ninja Tribunal recruited the Turtles and four human fighters as their Acolytes to retrieve the artifacts first. Unfortunately, the Heralds were ultimately successful and the Tengu Shredder returned.

After battling the Turtles and severely injuring Karai, the Tengu Shredder remakes New York City into a demon wasteland. The Turtles recruit Karai, the Justice Force, Bishop and the Purple Dragons to fight back. Karai is able to drain the demon's power via a mystic link, while the Turtles (using their dragon avatars) battle him. They destroy his helmet and gauntlet before summoning the spirit of Hamato Yoshi to deliver the final blow to the Tengu Shredder transformed into poison. The first episode of "Back to the Sewer", the final season of the 2003 series, indicated that the Tengu Shredder would have eventually returned, and the events of his return would have likely been detailed in the following season of Back to the Sewer had it not been cancelled.

SO WHEN THEY SAY THAT THIS FILM IS DEEPLY ROOTED IN THE HISTORY OF TMNT BUT AT THE SAME TIME CREATING A FRESH TWIST I THINK IT COULD BE THE COMBINATION OF THESE TWO STORIES. JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT I GUESS : )

[MastahShredder]

Listen to this interview knowing what we know now. He seems to really skirt around the Shredder ordeal. He never once mentions he plays Shredder. However, he probably does and it's an Iron Man suit based on his comments.



"Yeah, well, Eric Sach's or, Oroku Saki..the original Shredder..or so I'm told and I've read."

"They're are guys who become Shredder. That's also my understanding of it. So when Shredder becomes Shredder in this movie, it gets into the real back-story of his fascination with..and I can't give away too much but it gets into his deep fascination of armor and who is the Shredder who he creates. Anybody could play Shredder when they put the Shredder suit on. I don't care if it's an actor that's 5' tall. He's going to be Shredder and Shredder is a bad dude."

[Puddinpop]

He's gonna kill it. Fichtner plays a villain better than anyone I've seen and I think in the context of this new movie he could be perfect for the role. Exactly what they wanted.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by MastahShredder

Listen to this interview knowing what we know now. He seems to really skirt around the Shredder ordeal. He never once mentions he plays Shredder. However, he probably does and it's an Iron Man suit based on his comments.

I think he's just uncomfortable playing a character called "The Shredder" unless he's really punking us he makes clear even in this video his character will be wearing the armor.

And to answer the OP I don't think we're getting Tengu Shredder - at least not as we had in the show. I'd say it's more that it's a mantle that any schlub can take up - we'll be lucky if Oroku Saku gets a mention.

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by Puddinpop

Okay.....

I loved your post and it has alot of insight i think there is a large chance of something like this happening

Originally Posted by MastahShredder

Listen to this interview knowing what we know now. He seems to really skirt around the Shredder ordeal. He never once mentions he plays Shredder. However, he probably does and it's an Iron Man suit based on his comments.



"Yeah, well, Eric Sach's or, Oroku Saki..the original Shredder..or so I'm told and I've read."

"They're are guys who become Shredder. That's also my understanding of it. So when Shredder becomes Shredder in this movie, it gets into the real back-story of his fascination with..and I can't give away too much but it gets into his deep fascination of armor and who is the Shredder who he creates. Anybody could play Shredder when they put the Shredder suit on. I don't care if it's an actor that's 5' tall. He's going to be Shredder and Shredder is a bad dude."

I think there is something about this character that we just dont know and Have been told on countless occasions that what people are saying online about the shredder is wrong buy multiple people working on the movie I think there is evidence to it not being something we expect it to be.

Originally Posted by Puddinpop

He's gonna kill it. Fichtner plays a villain better than anyone I've seen and I think in the context of this new movie he could be perfect for the role. Exactly what they wanted.

Agree, Really when his casting came out i was super happy having sen him in countless roles and knowing his acting chops and how good of a bad guy he can be, strong, imposing. I was and am still shocked by how much his casting is hated. I baffles me he is such a great actor and he pretty much just written off. but hey.

[Puddinpop]

Originally Posted by samxsteal

I loved your post and it has alot of insight i think there is a large chance of something like this happening

I think there is something about this character that we just dont know and Have been told on countless occasions that what people are saying online about the shredder is wrong buy multiple people working on the movie I think there is evidence to it not being something we expect it to be.

Agree, Really when his casting came out i was super happy having sen him in countless roles and knowing his acting chops and how good of a bad guy he can be, strong, imposing. I was and am still shocked by how much his casting is hated. I baffles me he is such a great actor and he pretty much just written off. but hey.

Thank you Sam. Yea I was reading up on all of the versions of Shredder and when I came across some of this stuff it just made me think of that scroll and that they're probably going to do some Sci fi type origin story with Krang/Utrom/Tenga villains and have lots of flash back scenes etc. So I wanted to share it with everybody. I think they will really go in deep with this film. Im so happy that we aren't getting the same exact story that we saw in 1990, which was awesome but.. I want something fresh and new and interesting.

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by Puddinpop

Thank you Sam. Yea I was reading up on all of the versions of Shredder and when I came across some of this stuff it just made me think of that scroll and that they're probably going to do some Sci fi type origin story with Krang/Utrom/Tenga villains and have lots of flash back scenes etc. So I wanted to share it with everybody. I think they will really go in deep with this film. Im so happy that we aren't getting the same exact story that we saw in 1990, which was awesome but.. I want something fresh and new and interesting.

Agreed I really cant wait to see where they take this movie

[DarkLightDragon]

I dunno. Tengu Shredder was one of those things in the 2k3 series that fell under the 'supernatural' elements of it's mythos.

Nothing about this movie so far has shown that there will be any of the mystical sort, so Tengu's very unlikely.

[Candy Kappa]

A sci-fi twist on Tengu Shredder... Eeeeh.

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by Puddinpop

Thank you Sam. Yea I was reading up on all of the versions of Shredder and when I came across some of this stuff it just made me think of that scroll and that they're probably going to do some Sci fi type origin story with Krang/Utrom/Tenga villains and have lots of flash back scenes etc. So I wanted to share it with everybody. I think they will really go in deep with this film. Im so happy that we aren't getting the same exact story that we saw in 1990, which was awesome but.. I want something fresh and new and interesting.

Originally Posted by DarkLightDragon

I dunno. Tengu Shredder was one of those things in the 2k3 series that fell under the 'supernatural' elements of it's mythos.

Nothing about this movie so far has shown that there will be any of the mystical sort, so Tengu's very unlikely.

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

A sci-fi twist on Tengu Shredder... Eeeeh.

Or ijs just hidden which isn't a bad thing let us be surprised for once are are people saying about spiderman right now "we see to much in the trailers"

Just keep this part a surprise. There are hints of this with in the trailer and what we have seen. We dont need them to outright paint the picture right in front of us so we?

[Puddinpop]

Originally Posted by DarkLightDragon

I dunno. Tengu Shredder was one of those things in the 2k3 series that fell under the 'supernatural' elements of it's mythos.

Nothing about this movie so far has shown that there will be any of the mystical sort, so Tengu's very unlikely.

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

A sci-fi twist on Tengu Shredder... Eeeeh.

Yea im thinking more Utrom/Android more than Tengu Shredder. I think it could be the Same Utrom that operated in Saki in Feudal era Japan maybe.. I just put Tengu as a headline bc we've already had Utrom threads and I thought there was interesting things in both stories. But anyways.. Thanks for posting responses : )

[MastahShredder]

So we know he is fascinated with armor. He has to get that fascination from somewhere, right? I just don't know if it's Oroku Saki from the past or what but I think he is just obsessed with "Shredder" and brings him back/tries to re-create Shredder to fight the Turtles. Just spitballin'

[Sumac]

For what purpose?
I mean, this whole "multiple Shredders" stuff felt a bit overdone in the 2K3. Partially because it was obvious retcon, that there was another Shredder before Ch'rell.

I am not completely against idea of Shredder being a title, but only if its carefully executed.

[UGHShellshocked]

I like the idea of having Sachs putting on the suit and becoming possessed by the spirit of Saki. The Shredder armor being unbreakable and impervious to any method of destroying it. While you might kill the man inside the suit the Shredder will live on by being handed down through generations.

I would also like it if we get a close up of Shredder that there be Japanese eyes peering out from the eye holes for when Saki takes over a host, the host becomes every aspect of Saki.

[Galactus]

Let's say it is something along the lines of Tengu Shredder and the armor is possessing or corrupting Sachs

Where does Splinter fit in to this. Whether he is Yoshi's former pet or Yoshi himself his story doesn't work without Oroku Saki.

So unless Saki is pretty much one in a line of Shredders that murdered or attempted to murder Yoshi and or he's the original Tengu based Shredder and there's reincarnation similar to the IDW series we can expect major revisions to Splinter also.

All these possibilities sound all shades of horrible especially in a movie with a limited time to make it work sharing screen time with establishing April and her quirky Channel 6 News Crew, the backstory with April's father and the ooze/mutagen, the kidnap and rescue plot with Raph and C6 News crew and (hopefully) decent screentime for the other turtles and whatever save the world shenanigans they've got going on.

*sigh Couldn't they just make an actual Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by AlphaAF

Because it's clearly a reboot of Power Rangers

Obviously not but it seems to have little in common with TMNT.

[Puddinpop]

Originally Posted by AlphaAF

I sense a possible Utrom / Shredder connection, but nothing definitive enough. There will be some mystery to Erich Sachs, that much is confirmed. The ancient Japanese scroll, there is some clues. I don't get the supernatural vibe of Tengu Shredder. That was one of the many aspects to the 2k3 show I didn't appreciate. That show IMO took one too many liberties with supernatural, sci-fi to the point of becoming very hoaky. I can understand some sci-fi, alien elements but only to an extent.

Why have his name be the Americanized version of Oroku Saki thought you know what I mean? I think Saki is WAY to important of a figure for them to not at least mention him in this movie. But I suspect that in the trailer, Sachs is explaining who and what he is to April telling her about the utrom attack back in Feudal Japan. I think that scene is where she finds out what he is. I also think we will get some IDW influence here. That's all Eastman and Eastman is the Co-creator that Bay and Liebesman decided to consult. It is DEF. a TMNT movie though. Just not the same one we saw in 1990. That is a good thing, bc I already have that movie in my DVD player. When I think of all these other reboots going on.. I would think a TMNT reboot would eventually go into the whole Sci fi Dimension X thing and I cant wait to see it on screen. How does it have little to do with TMNT? I just posted it from the TMNT Wiki page lol. These stories came from the minds of the original creators. Just with a few twists to freshen it up and have it stand on its own two feet.