To everyone against the clothing/gear

[Radical Raph]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

And, again. It's not just the clothes, but the whole design.And I am not only talking about the faces, so relax.

No, one of the main offenders for me, is the lack of turtle-y features. They have shells, sure. but the plastron looks more like a thick hide over their hunky man-abs rather then an actual plastron. The Carapace do not make me think of a turtle, or more closer a terrapin. A Box Turtle maybe, but that's because the shells of a Box Turtle is shaped more akin to a tortoise.

Their limbs are not very reminiscent of a turtle. Now, several incarnations lacks this as well mind you, but. With the current cartoon having such a nice sense of details, I feel it's a shame the movie don't do it either. A turtle's limbs usually are smaller at the shoulder/hip and widens at the paws, same does the Nick designs, and some of the IDW designs and early Mirage.

Spoiler:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/IMG_3752.jpg

For me, the PD Turtles looks like generic Reptilians then specific Bipedal Turtles.

And then comes the clothes on-top of these issues, and their faces, and their weapons.

One of the swords are shorter, personally. I think it could be shorter, but it is noticeable shorter, on both on-screen and in toy form.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Radical Raph

http://images.bidnessetc.com/content...210c3664ec.gif

...


...No.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

Mm, nope.

Nick cartoonishly exaggerates the varying body types too much. When I said "varying body types", I was thinking of the first film. Nick is trying too hard.

I wouldn't say Nick exaggerates "too much" but the body forms are very cliche, and fits visual stereotyping to the smallest detail. Of course Raph is going to be the shortest (excluding Mikey) and have the most muscle, so it implies there's some underlying subconscious height envy/insecurity (about wanting to be seen as a leader). Donatello is tall, scrawny, skinny, egg-headish, and a gap in his teeth to highlight the "dorkiness" or nerd aspect of his character. Mikey has freckles, light blue eyes, and be the most petite to make him look the most innocent. Leo is stereotypically average in height and build, to suit the "well-rounded" aspect of his character.

I preferred the same body types in the earlier cartoons (OT and 2K3), the movies, and comics because at least it forced the audience/reader (who were unfamiliar with TMNT) to learn about the characters rather than presumptuously assuming their individual personalities by visual assessment.

This 2014 movie takes those Nick TMNT body forms to an absurd caricature degree and goes beyond "exaggerating", not only in body form, but in apparel as well. (I've come up with the theory that you can tell how much a reinterpretation is depending on stereotypes based on how much contrast there is between Donatello's vs. Raphael's appearances.) Really? We need THAT much visual reinforcement to know about Leo's traditional ways, or Donatello's consuming interest in technology, etc. that it makes their gear highly impractical in fighting? We can't just let the dialogue, and plot reveal and expand on each of the Turtles' personalities? ...And here society prides itself on being above visual stereotyping.

[Sumac]

Unrecognisable? 2003 Don was unrecognisable from his 80's version. 2012 Don keeps his caring for people from 2003.

If anything they were different takes on the same idea. 87 Don was more "snobby", less patient, more leaderlike then even Leo at times. 03 Don was softer and more pacifistic, but they definitely have a lot of similarities.
If anything, it was Raphael who was VERY different in the 87 series and other incarnations. Seeing him as a "tough guy" in the 03 series took some time to use to. I didn't had such problem with others - I immediately accepted them as a new versions of the same characters. It was true even for the April. Not so much for the Casey, though. Not that I cared about his character back in the 87 series.

[Sighphi]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

the katana is even depicted as straight bladed swords instead of a curved blade. But, it's easier to draw a sword with a straight blade then a curved.

The Japanese had straight swords.
Maybe Leo picked a pair of those and learn with that not really knowing what they were.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Sighphi

The Japanese had straight swords.
Maybe Leo picked a pair of those and learn with that not really knowing what they were.

Yes, back in the 10th century called Chokuto, AND are very different then the tachi and katana. It predates the tempering used for the tachi and katana. So no, Leonardo do not have those swords cause the swords clearly resemble a katana, but are incorrectly depicted as straight bladed.


And if you refer to the straight bladed "Ninjato", that is wrong, there is no historical evidence of straight bladed katana/Ninjato and was first surfaced back in the 1960's. In fact, if there even was straight bladed katana back in the feudal period, they would not be ideal Ninjato swords, because it would be far more costly to make straight swords compared to the curved swords, cause the tempering of the steel sword smiths used naturally curved the blade.

And Leonardo, who was taught by a martial arts master, should know what swords he holds in his hands, your reasoning there is way far fetched.

[electric_sheep]

Isn't Katana supposed to be a two handed weapon, like lightsaber? He kinda looks silly holding two Katanas....

[Candy Kappa]

A katana is primarily a two-hander, but it can also function as a one-hander.

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

A katana is primarily a two-hander, but it can also function as a one-hander.

Musashi LIKE A BOSS best samurai ever

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by SwiftNinjaFox

Truthfully, like you stated, it doesn't matter how they're held on the back. Get a katana. Or get a straight bladed "ninjato" if you like. Slap that sucker on your back either way and try to draw it. Your dagblasted arms aren't long enough to go straight up far enough to properly draw it from the scabbard. Unless the scabbard is designed with a slit down the side for the blade to slip free from, I suppose.

Yep. I've tried it before, and you're exactly right.

Originally Posted by SwiftNinjaFox

Leo, despite cover art which is just meant to look awesome, also fought with only one sword at a time A LOT in the comics. He didn't actually dual wield all the time.

Oh yeah, I do realise in the comics he used one sword at a time a lot. I hit character limit so I couldn't include that part in my post.

Originally Posted by SwiftNinjaFox

I've read speculation that realistically a ninja dual wielding would more logically have used two wakizashi, possibly even wakizashi stored in a katana's scabbard to hide the quickness of the draw's capability and have the opponent misjudge capabilities.

...I really like this idea. Holy **** I want to use this idea for a project I'm working on now.

Originally Posted by SwiftNinjaFox

A dynamic I feel is often overlooked. Leo/Raph dynamic is the most obvious - Raph NEEDS Leo to put him in his place from time to time, Leo NEEDS Raph to challenge his decisions from time to time. Their different personalities counter-balance one another.

I like how the Northampton arc in IDW had a little bit of interaction with the different brothers and how Leo/Don have actually been shown through the series to have some personality conflicts with Leo's being more spiritual against Don's scientific basis.

Yep. I feel the turtles are best characterised when each of them creates a foil for another; where you can pair any two of the turtles together and their personality differences are highlighted by the other. It just creates this sense of balance and I love it.

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

I wouldn't say Nick exaggerates "too much" but the body forms are very cliche, and fits visual stereotyping to the smallest detail. Of course Raph is going to be the shortest (excluding Mikey) and have the most muscle, so it implies there's some underlying subconscious height envy/insecurity (about wanting to be seen as a leader). Donatello is tall, scrawny, skinny, egg-headish, and a gap in his teeth to highlight the "dorkiness" or nerd aspect of his character. Mikey has freckles, light blue eyes, and be the most petite to make him look the most innocent. Leo is stereotypically average in height and build, to suit the "well-rounded" aspect of his character.

I preferred the same body types in the earlier cartoons (OT and 2K3), the movies, and comics because at least it forced the audience/reader (who were unfamiliar with TMNT) to learn about the characters rather than presumptuously assuming their individual personalities by visual assessment.

This 2014 movie takes those Nick TMNT body forms to an absurd caricature degree and goes beyond "exaggerating", not only in body form, but in apparel as well. (I've come up with the theory that you can tell how much a reinterpretation is depending on stereotypes based on how much contrast there is between Donatello's vs. Raphael's appearances.) Really? We need THAT much visual reinforcement to know about Leo's traditional ways, or Donatello's consuming interest in technology, etc. that it makes their gear highly impractical in fighting? We can't just let the dialogue, and plot reveal and expand on each of the Turtles' personalities? ...And here society prides itself on being above visual stereotyping.

This is an AMAZING post and you should feel proud. That is all, I just wanted to point that out.

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

And if you refer to the straight bladed "Ninjato", that is wrong, there is no historical evidence of straight bladed katana/Ninjato and was first surfaced back in the 1960's. In fact, if there even was straight bladed katana back in the feudal period, they would not be ideal Ninjato swords, because it would be far more costly to make straight swords compared to the curved swords, cause the tempering of the steel sword smiths used naturally curved the blade.

And Leonardo, who was taught by a martial arts master, should know what swords he holds in his hands, your reasoning there is way far fetched.

I've done my reading on the ninjato, and I know you're completely right here. But I just want to point something out to you.


2k3 Leonardo is unmistakably wielding ninjato. You cannot tell me these are anything else. I'm not sure about the other incarnations since I never had a reason to identify the swords he carries in those [my brother is more the sword guy than I am], but this one's really obvious.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

I've done my reading on the ninjato, and I know you're completely right here. But I just want to point something out to you.

http://i.imgur.com/px0VKws.jpg http://i.imgur.com/XesgxvV.png
2k3 Leonardo is unmistakably wielding ninjato. You cannot tell me these are anything else. I'm not sure about the other incarnations since I never had a reason to identify the swords he carries in those [my brother is more the sword guy than I am], but this one's really obvious.

Thanks, captain obvious?

The swords are also straight in the live action trilogy. They have also been depicted as straight bladed in various comics. Doesn't make it any less incorrect.

I even mentioned that Leo's sword are usually depicted wrong in a previous post

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Niten Ichi-Ryu is an actual sword school that specializes in dual wielding. Now, real life dual wielding of Nihonto is a longsword (katana) and a short sword (wakishazi). This have "always" been represented wrong in TMNT history as Leo usually wears a pair of katana, and sometimes the katana is even depicted as straight bladed swords instead of a curved blade. But, it's easier to draw a sword with a straight blade then a curved.

So, not sure why you needed to point it out to me?

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Thanks, captain obvious?

The swords are also straight in the live action trilogy. They have also been depicted as straight bladed in various comics. Doesn't make it any less incorrect.

I even mentioned that Leo's sword are usually depicted wrong in a previous post

lmao, then excuuuuuuse me for missing that. No need to act all superior about it, since I wasn't trying to prove you wrong or anything.

[Candy Kappa]

Okay... Well it was a part of a reply to one of your posts.

[Netkeeper]

Ok. Still not sure why you were all huffy about it, since I'm not trying to piss you off or anything.

[Candy Kappa]

Maybe I'm just overly passionate about historically incorrect swords...

[Sighphi]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Yes, back in the 10th century called Chokuto, AND are very different then the tachi and katana. It predates the tempering used for the tachi and katana. So no, Leonardo do not have those swords cause the swords clearly resemble a katana, but are incorrectly depicted as straight bladed.

How do they "clearly resemble" katanas when the signature feature doesnt exist?

If you look at Leo's sword they are usually drawn with a big pommel. Guess what type of sword uses a pommel? The straight sword and not the Katana.

And Leonardo, who was taught by a martial arts master, should know what swords he holds in his hands, your reasoning there is way far fetched.

Leo was taught the ways of the ninja not the ways of the samurai. The weapon he uses does not matter, he got, found, whatever, a couple of Chokuto and was taught a style using those swords.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Sighphi

How do they "clearly resemble" katanas when the signature feature doesnt exist?

If you look at Leo's sword they are usually drawn with a big pommel. Guess what type of sword uses a pommel? The straight sword and not the Katana.

The words "artistic interpretation" comes to mind.

Especially when most incarnations also depicts Raphael's Sai wrong.

[Sighphi]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

The words "artistic interpretation" comes to mind.

Especially when most incarnations also depicts Raphael's Sai wrong.

They artistically interpreted a Katana to resemble a straight sword ... why?
I think the problem came after when other people took over and they did start making it look more like Katanas. But originally Leo was just using straight swords.

And Raph is not using sais he is using Tekpis.

[Candy Kappa]

Tekpi is the Malaysian name for the Sai, and there aren't a whole lot of differences between the Okinawan Sai and the Malaysian Tekpi. Another name for Sai is Tjabang (Chabang).


Edit: the idea of Leo actually using Chokuto under the guise as Katana is absolutely hysterical. First off, straight swords and curved swords are used very differently. Second, and this is the important part. The Chokuto is a extremely outdated Nihinto, so ancient that there (as far as I know, and looked) is no schools that teaches Chokuto techniques, it simply phased out as the Tachi came along as the much superior weapon.

[SwiftNinjaFox]

Originally Posted by Sighphi

They artistically interpreted a Katana to resemble a straight sword ... why?

Because Eastman and Laird are not martial artists nor students of Japanese history and at the time of the TMNT's creation, the 80s had seen a surge of ninja movies all using the straight bladed sword now generally called ninjato.

At the time, however, I think they were still generally called katana in said films. They were even used in Japanese live plays.

That's the real reason they artistically interpreted the straight blade - it was common in ninja movies at the time (and I believe Frank Miller & Co. were using them for Elektra and The Hand as well).

From there, it just stuck.

It's also probably a bit easier to draw.