Official Episode Discussion S2 #19 "The Wrath of Tiger Claw""

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Bry

I'd guess that, assuming Karai rejects Saki after recent developments, Shredder might punish her by mutating her into a rat to match her true father. (I'm also assuming it would wind up being temporary.)

But how exactly would he do that? We, the audience, have an idea as to how the mutagen possibly works, but I don't think anyone in the show has put it together yet. Like how, seemingly, the last thing you come across or touch, you mutate into that thing...but even that isn't always the case, is it?

Kirby and Timothy. I don't recall Kirby being around any bats prior to his mutation (unless I just can't remember) and what the heck did Timothy come in contact with to mutate into Mutagen Man? How would Shredder know that if Karai touches a rat and then dowsed with mutagen that she MAY mutate into one?

[Rooish]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Others have questioned how Mikey's shell could get knocked loose, and my theory on that is that Donnie was referring to his plastron.

This is... a pretty bad injury for a turtle nonetheless. Wouldn't he be bleeding like a stuck pig?

[Klunk1234]

After that Pizza Face episode, this one is awesome. Karai finally knows the truth about her past and this is the first time she mentions honor, which remained me of 2k3. What the Shredder is going to with Karai after he lock her in the dungeon? Love, Mikey this time! I hope Karai redeemed herself and becomes an ally. Love to see Irma, April and even Casey. He had a good fight against Tiger Claw. The action scenes were really good. Overall, I'm very happy with the episode.

I hope the next episode is good as this one.

[Donny's computer84]

This was a good episode, maybe Karai can their ally. Good action scenes throughout.

[pennydreadful]

Originally Posted by Rooish

This is... a pretty bad injury for a turtle nonetheless. Wouldn't he be bleeding like a stuck pig?

I can't speak for the bleeding as I know practically nothing about turtle physiology (I'm positive that Candy Kappa will be able to weigh in with the right answer though)... nonetheless, thinking about plastron tears makes me hurt just thinking about it!

[Darth Knuckles]

Awesome episode. All of the cutscenes explaining how Tiger Claw got back to this dimension were great. The original cartoon turtles, The Triceratons, and the one creature in the background of one of the scenes reminded me of Famine from the Archie series. So Tiger Claw is one tough dude. I like him even more now than I already did in the first episode(s) he was in. Definitely my favorite Nick created character.

Tiger Claw is just brutal at times. He throws Casey off of a tall building for the heck of it. It also shows that his revenge has clouded his judgement a little bit. In "The Manhattan Project" he agrees with Karai and stops Shredder from killing a weakened Splinter. But in this episode he mentions "I didn't come here for honor" in talking about interrogating Mr. Murakami. I also like the threat that Tiger Claw smelled the turtles down in the sewers. I don't know if that will actually pay off or not but it was at least cool to threaten it in this episode.

The final fight was also very awesome. Tiger Claw in the meat locker reminded my of the scene from Predator 2 which is interesting since I thought The Newtralizer reminded me of the Predator a couple of weeks ago. I thought it was great when Tiger Claw fought with his sword and one of Raph's sai. The final fight was just amazing.

I liked that in this episode we saw one of Casey's stash places where he hides his golf bag full of his equipment. And I really loved the line from Casey "Okay, Cat-Man-Dude" which was a great reference to us Archie fans (whoop whoop!!) of Katmandu. I really enjoyed that one!

I loved all of Raph's lines about Karai like, "I don't trust her.", where he was going to stick his sai , "I told you!", and "Some of us choose to be right all the time." Some of them reminded me of myself and how I like Nick's take on Raph a lot.

Mikey was smart in this one!!! I really liked that. He knew about triangulating the T-phones and when he suggested he knew where to go towards the end of the episode, Donnie's reaction was just priceless; "I feel scared." I laughed out loud so hard on that one!

I really liked Karai's story too. I liked that she was still betraying them all the way until she saw the pictures of her and her real parents. I liked that it took that long for her to believe Splinter and Leo about her true father. The end with Shredder surprisingly admitting that "Yes, Hamato Yoshi is your true father." was pretty interesting I thought. Shredder could have still tried to lie I thought but he told her the truth and it won't help her in the future either. All together a really great episode.

[pennydreadful]

I'm happy any time Tiger Claw shows up, for the enjoyment I get out of his voice acting alone. It's just such a pleasure to hear him talk (I know that came out sounding wrong, but it's not meant that way! ).

[pennydreadful]

So, who else is wondering whether Shredder had planned for Karai betraying him? This Shredder's pretty sneaky... I kind of see him anticipating that it might happen, in which case whether she did or didn't betray him, he'd still end up ultimately winning - either she'd help Tiger Claw to destroy the Turtles for him, or she'd show her true loyalties and he'd get to use her as bait to destroy Splinter later on.

Which makes me wonder whether Tiger Claw's "unexpected entrance" into the throne room was planned or not. Maybe Tiger Claw had returned a while ago and Shredder kept it secret so he could play out this little scenario of his.

Karai's shown on several occasions that she is more emotion-driven than Shredder would probably like... and I'm sure he would have noticed.

Raising someone for 15 years and then tossing them in jail without a backwards glance is pretty cold though... this Shredder is so ruthless!

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

But how exactly would he do that? We, the audience, have an idea as to how the mutagen possibly works, but I don't think anyone in the show has put it together yet. Like how, seemingly, the last thing you come across or touch, you mutate into that thing...but even that isn't always the case, is it?

Kirby and Timothy. I don't recall Kirby being around any bats prior to his mutation (unless I just can't remember) and what the heck did Timothy come in contact with to mutate into Mutagen Man? How would Shredder know that if Karai touches a rat and then dowsed with mutagen that she MAY mutate into one?

When Tim was stumbling around, his knees landed in a pile of mutagen, so that's how he transformed into Mutagen Man. As for Kirby, there were bats hanging from the building he and April were standing on and as he falls, you see the bats flying up around him.

[Shark_Blade]

Holy crap, the final showdown in the slaughterhouse was awesome!!!! The action is movie quality like.

I love you Ciro and team, bringing chills and danger into the show!

[bigk4062]

I kinda wish that Splinter would have gone with them to fight Tiger Claw... clearly the dude is hell bent on revenge and has attacked weaker humans without any issue... his sons couldn't beat Tiger Claw on their own the first time why could they the second? Of course now many Splinter is gonna go into crazy papa mood since his one son is hurt and his daughter is missing... time for the Shredder/Splinter/Tiger Claw throw down

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

But how exactly would he do that? We, the audience, have an idea as to how the mutagen possibly works, but I don't think anyone in the show has put it together yet. Like how, seemingly, the last thing you come across or touch, you mutate into that thing...but even that isn't always the case, is it?

Kirby and Timothy. I don't recall Kirby being around any bats prior to his mutation (unless I just can't remember) and what the heck did Timothy come in contact with to mutate into Mutagen Man? How would Shredder know that if Karai touches a rat and then dowsed with mutagen that she MAY mutate into one?

If we can figure it out, they can figure it out. The mutagen seems to be pretty simplistic in how it does things, plus they also have Baxter to confirm. Also when someone get's mutated like that, the genetic donor creature is often still nearby, and so most would put 2 and 2 together.

Kirby got mutated because the bats would be shedding hair and dander as they were flying. Kirby was in the middle of the bats, so he was in a cloud of it.

[fridaynightdestination]

Alright, so I just saw this episode now because I forgot about it on Sunday (luckily it taped) and I was too busy studying and keeping up with E3 to watch it yesterday, but I finally caught it! Great episode. Karai learning the truth and teaming up with the turtles was cool. I liked how this was a bit of a darker episode after the silly fun that was Pizzaface. This episode was darker with Tiger Claw talking about how he got out of the worm, the pizza chief guy (what's his name?) almost getting killed by Tiger Claw, Casey Jones getting thrown off the roof and getting knocked out, the turtles letting Tiger Claw take Karai, Michelangelo getting pretty beat up, Karai getting locked in the cage, etc. Great episode, 8/10.

Also, I will get hated for saying this, but I liked Pizzaface more than this episode. Not just because it was a Mikey episode and Mikey is my favorite turtle, just because I loved how silly and fun it was. But I still loved this episode and it is one of the best this season so far.

[NoName999]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

But how exactly would he do that? We, the audience, have an idea as to how the mutagen possibly works, but I don't think anyone in the show has put it together yet. Like how, seemingly, the last thing you come across or touch, you mutate into that thing...but even that isn't always the case, is it?

Didn't Bradford and Xever figure it out?

[IndigoErth]

This episode, how's that internet talk go.. "the feels!"? Really.

So rare that a cartoon could ever make me tear up a tiny bit there for a moment, but Nick succeeded with this one.

Can't wait for the further progress of this storyline.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

I wasn't alarmed, I was kind hoping that it was true. That would have been kind of epic since they'd be going out like warriors.

It would have been a shallow and unfair move if it was true, having someone else to "officially" (more or less) write the characters' ending for another person's story, especially after the OT voice actors contributed their cameo. Otherwise how fair would it be for a fourth or fifth animated series of TMNT to easily kill off these Nick Turtles to highlight a villain's importance in another new series? How would Ciro and his production team react to that then?

Only David Wise could make that kind of a call since he was the main, original storywriter of the OT.

[fridaynightdestination]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

This episode, how's that internet talk go.. "the feels!"? Really.

So rare that a cartoon could ever make me tear up a tiny bit there for a moment, but Nick succeeded with this one.

Can't wait for the further progress of this storyline.

What made you tear up? The only thing that make me get remotely sad was seeing Casey Jones and Michelangelo getting the crap beat out of them, but I didn't tear up at it.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by fridaynightdestination

What made you tear up? The only thing that make me get remotely sad was seeing Casey Jones and Michelangelo getting the crap beat out of them, but I didn't tear up at it.

That whole Karai and Splinter piece.

Gah, come on, I can't be the only one moved by it. lol Long time in coming.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

It would have been a shallow and unfair move if it was true, having someone else to "officially" (more or less) write the characters' ending for another person's story, especially after the OT voice actors contributed their cameo. Otherwise how fair would it be for a fourth or fifth animated series of TMNT to easily kill off these Nick Turtles to highlight a villain's importance in another new series? How would Ciro and his production team react to that then?

Only David Wise could make that kind of a call since he was the main, original storywriter of the OT.

But in a way they did do something like that in Turtles Forever, at least for OT Turtles. They didn't kill them, but they did characterize them in such a way at their expense, just to highlight how much 'kewler' the 2k3 Turtles were and how more dangerous their Shredder was. At least with Tigerclaw killing them they go out like warriors and not like the pizza obsessed chumps Turtles Forever portrayed them to be, which is another reason why I can't understand the fan-gush that movie gets.

And did David Wise even like how the OT were portrayed in TF? Would he not like a more fitting ending to them going out like heroes, instead of being seen as little more then a joke to make the 2k3 Turtles look good?

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

But in a way they did do something like that in Turtles Forever, at least for OT Turtles. They didn't kill them, but they did characterize them in such a way at their expense, just to highlight how much 'kewler' the 2k3 Turtles were and how more dangerous their Shredder was. At least with Tigerclaw killing them they go out like warriors and not like the pizza obsessed chumps Turtles Forever portrayed them to be, which is another reason why I can't understand the fan-gush that movie gets.

And did David Wise even like how the OT were portrayed in TF? Would he not like a more fitting ending to them going out like heroes, instead of being seen as little more then a joke to make the 2k3 Turtles look good?

I didn't like how the OT Turtles were portrayed in Turtles Forever either (that movie can't go 5 minutes without making fun at the OT Turtles' expense), but it's one thing to deride character(s) for a period time and keep them alive, and maybe having a potential of being redeemable (which Nick seemed to do mostly), but for me at least, it's more extreme to have something as final and absolute as death and trample over the OT Turtles' bodies just to create emphasis on TigerClaw's ruthlessness. Therefore permanently ending the journey of the OT characters, and even the OT show itself in a way, that the original writer would most likely not have intended.

If it was a true canon development, as I said before, it would be another lowbrow behavior of throwing the OT version under the bus again, just to superficially "one up" their own cool factor, just for the sake of a moderately emphasized villain in the Nick series. Which would have been so ironic considering since both 2K3 and Nick owe their creation to the past success of the OT in creating Turtlemania. In my eyes, a product's "coolness" is how much it can do on its own rather than heavily berating/mocking something from the past to boast its own importance/relevance.

But for the most part, in both episodes "Wormquake!" and "The Wrath of Tiger Claw" the Nick show depicted the OT Turtles fairly close, from its lighter comedic seasons ("Wormquake!") to the darker toned Red Sky seasons (with the orange-colored flashback scene in "The Wrath of Tiger Claw").

Nevertheless, it seems that both of our concerns have been addressed with the OT Turtles fighting like warriors and still being alive.