donny Just flipped a car...Im treating this movie as a cartoon from now on.

[sh3llshocked]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

What PD Don is using is not a Bo.

No not a Bo, made of wood, but it is a long object that resembles a Bo-staff and is able to be used as one in a fight...and will probably have tech built into it.

[Netkeeper]

Sounds like something 2k12 Donnie would have done because "my stupid stick isn't good enough".

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

Sounds like something 2k12 Donnie would have done because "my stupid stick isn't good enough".

I'm pretty sure Donnie has gotten over that by now.

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by slingtheory

that's kind of my point. they've given the heros a power boost so now they'll probably have to do the same to the antagonists in order for it to measure up. so the foot can't just be a rival clan of ninjas anymore they have to be a band of gun packing commandos chemically or altered soldiers in order to explain away why they wouldn't be dead on arrival. and the shredder can't just be an arrogant ninja master who thinks so highly of his fighting skills that he figures he can make himself invincible by sticking blades to a few strategic places. he's gotta be wearing a full on suit of exo armor complete with extendable machetes on each hand. I know theres people who think its bad ass and cool but it just doesn't work for me. Also I think its disappointing that they apparently thought the turtles needed to be turned up to 11 to be reintroduced to modern audiences and im worried about the precedent it may set.

its not that there's no way they can come up with to introduce some tension into the story it's that you want to see it where you're used to it coming from. the problem I think is that its been the way it is for so long and that's the way people formed in attachment to it. its always been the turtles as underdogs taking on out numbering armies, larger more physically imposing enemies or guys who were just better skilled fighters than they were and watching them rise to the occasion so when you give them a power boost some of the appeal goes out the window. its the same with any character really people came to like them based on who they are and what they can do. if you were to suddenly change the personality or the power set you lose some of what brought people in. with thor for examples his fans like him because of his god status and they expect it to be there going in. you strip that away and make him a mutant from earth who can control lightning or whatever and you're likely going to turn some people off.

all fair points and the fact that the filmmakers have stated repeatedly that this is a "new" or "different" interpretation of the tmnt, it all boils down to whether or not this is an interpretation a given person can like or not.

i even think that while im hoping for the best, we wont get anything that deep or resonating. thats why im just going with the crazy-@ss flow.

[Sumac]

Basically this. I like my characters to struggle. If I want to watch superheroes, I can pick up pretty much any Marvel or DC movie. I liked that the Turtles had all the same limitations as a regular person - their appearances were the only thing really different about them; other than that, they still had to sweat and bleed for their victories, just like a regular person. It gives it more dramatic tension for me, makes me relate more closely to their setbacks and losses and rejoice more in their comebacks.

So much this!!
Turtles being miniHulks take away some charm from them and makes their character and challenges less interesting.

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by TurtleTitan97

I'm pretty sure Donnie has gotten over that by now.

Yeah, because he gave it a totally unnecessary blade.

[chrisdude]

The turtles' enemies have been scaled up, as well. There's no reason to think they won't "struggle." Powerful heroes struggle against powerful enemies. They sweat and bleed, too. It's the same thing.

And anyone who says Superman isn't interesting because he's too strong is taking in the wrong Superman stories. He has an entirely different dynamic from other superheroes. He's a god on Earth, with traditional American values, who chooses to be a selfless example of goodness, instead of a ruler. If you ask me, his best stories aren't about fighting anyone.

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

I think when movies/shows/stories reach a level of seriousness (as this movie is seeming to display), the viewer expects things to be mostly realistic or follow some sense of logic, otherwise the movie can become a parody of itself creating ridiculous melodrama where common sense is thrown out of the window. (For example, how soap operas are ridiculed where there's a bunch of melodrama between characters, yet as intense as the characters' hardships may be, it doesn't dawn on them to figure out a logical way to deal with things.)

Now it may be entertaining for some, but I don't think that's what the movie staff intended, for their movie to be logic parody of itself considering how dark and "badass" they are trying to depict this 2014 TMNT movie to be. ...I could be completely wrong when I see it, but the dramatic music, effects, and cut scenes presented in the trailers, in addition to the fact that Bay and Liebesman have typically made heavy action and serious films, seem to want us (the audience) to take the movie and its situations seriously. Otherwise, why not add slapstick fighting then if the movie is intended to be that ridiculous/unrealistic then?

I guess I just don't see it that way. Unrealistic stories have serious situations all the time. This week's Nickelodeon episode featured a guy who skated through the air on beams of light, and threw laser mohawks as a weapon. It didn't make the situation less dire. My favorite episode of the original cartoon was when Leo doubted his ability to lead, and quit the team, leaving the other turtles struggling without him. That episode also featured Shredder draining the sun with a laser. The serious-and-absurd combination is the premise of TMNT. From the original sketches, TMNT was born out of that.

That being said, I do believe that a story needs to "follow some sense of logic." But it sets its own parameters. People are getting bent out of shape about Donnie's bow, but it may very well makes sense in the context of the film.

[Puddinpop]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

People are getting bent out of shape about Donnie's bow, but it may very well makes sense in the context of the film.

I know.. I believe this will happen with a lot of things that some people are bent over..
Context makes a big difference. Just like some, after the first trailer were doubting that there wouldn't be any Martial arts/fighting, that they wouldn't be ninja's. I think that this was a premature thing to get upset over being that we'd only seen 90 seconds of footage. Imo I think a lot of things will be proven wrong once the film is released in it's entirety.

One minute it's "the Shredder has blades all over, how can the turtles beat him"
and the next it's " the turtles are huge, how can they even be challenged I want them to be the underdogs".
Well they get captured.. I remember in the first film.. the Turtles weren't challenged by the Foot at all.. they creamed them in every battle. Until they met the Shredder.. then Splinter took him out in one swoop.
It took like 50 Foot to take down Raph all by himself.. It's the same question I have when discussing the " Teenage Mutant" part being smaller than the "Ninja Turtles". Respectfully.. If it wasn't a problem then, why is it a problem now?

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

The turtles' enemies have been scaled up, as well. There's no reason to think they won't "struggle." Powerful heroes struggle against powerful enemies. They sweat and bleed, too. It's the same thing.

And anyone who says Superman isn't interesting because he's too strong is taking in the wrong Superman stories. He has an entirely different dynamic from other superheroes. He's a god on Earth, with traditional American values, who chooses to be a selfless example of goodness, instead of a ruler. If you ask me, his best stories aren't about fighting anyone.

You're not getting what I'm saying. Scaling up the heroes requires scaling up the enemies and raising the stakes, which takes it to a realm I'm not as interested in because every other superhero does that. I like the ninja turtles because they don't have super strength. They have abilities that you and me could have, if we trained for them. That's what makes them heroes, to me.

I could very well be taking in the wrong Superman stories. But what I did see, I didn't find very interesting, because he's just this guy with all of this insane power. We know he's going to win, even if he has to struggle a lot to get there. There isn't anything underdog about Superman. He's just "cool".

[zodiac brave]

do you like ANY marvel or DC movies?

or any movies in which the heroes are in extraordinary circumstances, in general, and had to overcome obstacles with extraordinary strength?

if not, what action/adventure movies DO you like?

[Sewer Sirens Podcast]

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

all fair points and the fact that the filmmakers have stated repeatedly that this is a "new" or "different" interpretation of the tmnt, it all boils down to whether or not this is an interpretation a given person can like or not.

i even think that while im hoping for the best, we wont get anything that deep or resonating. thats why im just going with the crazy-@ss flow.

Agreed. I've come to accept that as well, and not expect it, which in turn has made me more open to this film.

Originally Posted by chrisdude

The turtles' enemies have been scaled up, as well. There's no reason to think they won't "struggle." Powerful heroes struggle against powerful enemies. They sweat and bleed, too. It's the same thing.

I guess I just don't see it that way. Unrealistic stories have serious situations all the time. This week's Nickelodeon episode featured a guy who skated through the air on beams of light, and threw laser mohawks as a weapon. It didn't make the situation less dire. My favorite episode of the original cartoon was when Leo doubted his ability to lead, and quit the team, leaving the other turtles struggling without him. That episode also featured Shredder draining the sun with a laser. The serious-and-absurd combination is the premise of TMNT. From the original sketches, TMNT was born out of that.

That being said, I do believe that a story needs to "follow some sense of logic." But it sets its own parameters. People are getting bent out of shape about Donnie's bow, but it may very well makes sense in the context of the film.

Agreed. Especially with your last comment.

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

You're not getting what I'm saying. Scaling up the heroes requires scaling up the enemies and raising the stakes, which takes it to a realm I'm not as interested in because every other superhero does that. I like the ninja turtles because they don't have super strength. They have abilities that you and me could have, if we trained for them. That's what makes them heroes, to me.

I also agree with this.

Yes, I would've liked a more traditional TMNT film approach. Yes, I don't prefer how they are stronger and more beefed up (however, they are NOT Hulks). I agree they should be more "underdogs", and I agree they didn't necessarily have to scale everything up.

However, at least for me, even through my conflicts with this movie, I've come to accept the things I don't prefer. This, overall, IS TMNT. "Things Change", as the first episode of the 2003 series states. It's true. We may not really like some of those changes, but at least for me, I've come to accept it. To look past those small qualities I haven't liked being changed, knowing this is a different (and possibly temporary) take. Through doing that, I've actually started enjoying what I've seen from this film, and getting excited for it. Action looks great, and even though I don't PREFER some changes to characters and such, I'm excited to see where the film takes us WITH those changes.

[Refractive Reflections]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

I guess I just don't see it that way. Unrealistic stories have serious situations all the time. This week's Nickelodeon episode featured a guy who skated through the air on beams of light, and threw laser mohawks as a weapon. It didn't make the situation less dire. My favorite episode of the original cartoon was when Leo doubted his ability to lead, and quit the team, leaving the other turtles struggling without him. That episode also featured Shredder draining the sun with a laser. The serious-and-absurd combination is the premise of TMNT. From the original sketches, TMNT was born out of that.

That being said, I do believe that a story needs to "follow some sense of logic." But it sets its own parameters. People are getting bent out of shape about Donnie's bow, but it may very well makes sense in the context of the film.

The sci-fi part I don't have problems with (whether its light or dark toned) and I agree with the mix of absurd situations with serious life-threatening peril, just as long as the film follows its own rules of logic; otherwise if there are plot holes, then...

Personally what's distracting me (and part of the reason I'm looking disfavorably at this movie) is the fact that these Turtles are hulkish and doing superhuman things (Donnie's bo), where it appears to draw away from the swift ninjitsu fighting that should be in the forefront of the movie for a TMNT movie. I don't know... with these Turtles being so strong and big it almost makes ninjitsu fighting obsolete in a way, when they could individually throw large vehicles against trucks, lift a vehicle with a bo, and swat soldiers like flies in causing more effective destruction rather than bothering with their piddling ninjitsu fighting.

I mean it could make sense in the movie's parameters like you said, but it seems more estranged from the TMNT we would expect (or at least I would expect). If you catch my drift...

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

do you like ANY marvel or DC movies?

or any movies in which the heroes are in extraordinary circumstances, in general, and had to overcome obstacles with extraordinary strength?

if not, what action/adventure movies DO you like?

Actually, yes. Thor is my favourite. And he has a lot of struggles in that movie. But he didn't overcome his problems with brute strength, that was kind of the lesson he had to learn in that movie.

That said, one of my favourite adventure movies is DragonHeart! I'm also really fond of the original novel version of the Hobbit, but not so much the film or Lord of the Rings. And speaking of adaptations, I loved V for Vendetta's film and Watchmen's. And while they're not movies, the Metal Gear Solid games rank up in favourites for me, and they contain enough cutscenes to be movies anyway.

EDIT: If you want something a little more current, I enjoyed Pacific Rim, too.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by TurtleTitan97

You're right, it wasn't a car.

It was a freaking TRUCK! With just his bo staff!

Clearly, real world physics are going to be ignored in this film.

I think this is sad. I don't think they had to do it this way. I like what I see otherwise in the trailers. But I certainly don't like that the Turtles seem to be super super strong.

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

Actually, yes. Thor is my favourite. And he has a lot of struggles in that movie. But he didn't overcome his problems with brute strength, that was kind of the lesson he had to learn in that movie.

what makes you think that the plot of this movie will only be resolved with brute strength?

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by zodiac brave

what makes you think that the plot of this movie will only be resolved with brute strength?

Never said that. But considering it's Michael Bay... I wouldn't say it's an uneducated guess.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

Yeah, because he gave it a totally unnecessary blade.

Pretty sure Donnie had the Naginata mode since the beginning of the show.

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Pretty sure Donnie had the Naginata mode since the beginning of the show.

Doesn't make it any more necessary.

[Candy Kappa]

Same with Mikey's Kusarigama.

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Same with Mikey's Kusarigama.

I definitely agree there. I just didn't feel the need to bring it up since this thread isn't about Mikey.