Red String of Fate

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

Thank you for the recap of the series. I don't see a point in there, just a lot of text.

How can you not see it? It's pretty much showing how they were all fated to meet one another and have their paths cross. They're all connected by that red string of fate. The red string thing can apply to not only romance but to other types of relationships too, like strong friendships, which is what I think the poster was referring to.

[Netkeeper]

It's just a story. It's not fate. Events in a story are SUPPOSED to unfold that way, that's what makes them entertaining.

[victory_angel]

If Shredder didn't kill Teng Shen and abduct Miwa, Splinter would never have come to New York.

If Splinter didn't come to New York, he wouldn't have bought the Turtle's and the Turtles wouldn't have been mutated into the people they are.

If the Turtle's didn't mutate, they wouldn't be there the night April and her father were abducted by the Kraang.

If April was abducted by the Kraang they would have realized she is the person who has the specific strand of DNA that they want to stabilize the mutagen. And could then begin their plans to mutate the Earth.

[NitpickingMask]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

If Shredder didn't kill Teng Shen and abduct Miwa, Splinter would never have come to New York.

If Splinter didn't come to New York, he wouldn't have bought the Turtle's and the Turtles wouldn't have been mutated into the people they are.

If the Turtle's didn't mutate, they wouldn't be there the night April and her father were abducted by the Kraang.

If April was abducted by the Kraang they would have realized she is the person who has the specific strand of DNA that they want to stabilize the mutagen. And could then begin their plans to mutate the Earth.

Shredder killed Tang Shen because he is cartoonisly evil villain. Splinter then went to New York because TMNT has always taken plae in new york.

Then the turtles origin story happens because otherwise we wouldn't have the story.

And... Actually, I'm not going to finish this, you are seeing that I'm going to basically say "So? Thats because writers wrote the characters like that. And followed TMNT traditions."

[Netkeeper]

This is storytelling. The TMNT origin story is always a strange series of events, even in other continuities this remains consistent. That's kind of the point.

[JTH]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

http://31.media.tumblr.com/2c401d807...me80o6_250.gif http://24.media.tumblr.com/df9355759...me80o5_250.gif
This is storytelling. The TMNT origin story is always a strange series of events, even in other continuities this remains consistent. That's kind of the point.

But in this version, April is the main reason Splinter and the Turtles became what they are. If April was never born, the Kraang would have never been in New York looking for her 15 years before hand.

Which is the whole point of this thread, it was like it was destiny that they would meet one day, which they did. You can amount that to many reasons in a story, one being fate.

[Netkeeper]

Or you could amount it to being what it actually is: storytelling.

This isn't rocket science, guys.

[NitpickingMask]

And if your storytelling is "Turtles exist and fight Shredder because of destiny!" instead of there actually being character motivations and reasons, then you are lazy storyteller.

[Candy Kappa]

[Powder]

So much Tumblr in this thread.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by NitpickingMask

Red string of fate isn't religious belief, its folklore type of thing A philosophical thing. Nobody believes it as a religious teaching. Saying that I'm being intolerant for saying that I don't like the concept is saying that you are being religiously intolerant for not believing in soulmates. Its basically Asian version of same concept.

I find it kinda sad that at least two people have started to ramble to me about religious tolerance(speaking of which I don't have any actual problems with religions) when they themselves don't know anything about what the subject is about.

And I'm not sure why you think you are some great authority on definition of destiny. By definition it means "a predetermined course of events". Also, yes that IS indeed a coincidence. Happy coincidence, but coincidence is still a coincidence. Its perfectly possible that you would have never met and would have met someone else and be happily married with them. Humans have ability of trying to think all chaos in the world as some kind of linear path where everything has a meaning. If I wanted, I could give you plenty of examples of coincidences which were in retrospect pretty important to my life.

While the "red string" itself is not religious in nature, your earlier comment regarding myths was what I was referring to- read that post again, please. I was speaking about religious myths and beliefs in general, which you seemed to be scoffing at. EVERY religion has its "myths" or origin tales, and to bash or disregard one culture or religion's beliefs might as well be disregarding or bashing them all.

Also, were you actually paying attention to the point of that post? I was making a point about how seeming "coincidences" (which is how destiny works, BTW- events that SEEM random, really DO have an "order" to them!- see "Chaos Theory".....) will lead to a chain of specific outcomes, that are much less "random" than we may believe. The point was that while things may APPEAR to be random, they happen because certain events happen in a way that leads to that outcome- which is the essence of what "fate" is. It's not some giant hand pushing you a certain way- it's events falling into place to lead you where you are meant to be at that moment in time. Like the people who had tickets for the Titanic, but for whatever reason, did not get on board- and thus were not aboard for that ill-fated voyage. There are so many seeming "coincidences" surrounding our lives that we never even see, but they are there if we truly pay attention.

My example was an illustration of how such events can play out in ways that lead us to something we never would have found on our own. That so many pieces of a puzzle fall into place so perfectly to lead to that "chance" encounter is too many "coincidences" to be pure "chance". Unless one subscribes to the idea that the universe has no order, which science tells us it does. There are even theories attempting to describe it. (And I left out the part about how we both felt an immediate attraction when we met up again during that night, or how we ended up together in spite of the fact that I was actually semi-dating the friend he accompanied that night.)

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

While I do not condone the act of bashing myths and practices of another culture, I too dislike the red string of fate, partially because I think the concept of fate itself is not what people like to think it is. All fate is, is your own creation. We build our own destiny. It is not the product of some religion, faith, or myth. It's your own karma and actions, sorry to say. Own up.

Karma plays a part of it, true, but there is far more at work than just that. There are outside forces and influences we have NO control over, such as weather, "accidents", our route, destination, other people or objects in the path, etc. For so many things to converge in ONE specific pattern is what makes destiny or fate. Our own actions or choices may play a part as well, but we can't control what happens around us, and that is why "fate" always seems so random to begin with. It's made up of literally thousands of tiny threads of one tapestry that we can't understand or even see most of the time. But every now and then, we can catch a glimpse of it.

Originally Posted by NitpickingMask

Hey, I don't condone bashing believes, cultures or practices either, but red string of fate isn't one. Its not something that anybody from that culture really believes in (unless they happen to be same type of people who believes that soulmates really do exist), its thing that people say because they think its romantic while I think its horribly unromantic. Besides, I bash soulmate concept as much, it gives wrong picture to young people and pressure them to find "true love".

I personally think concept of fate is ridiculous concept since we can't see in the future. Without being able to predict future accurately, all that "destiny" is is basically same thing as history. You can only examine it in retrospect. What is physical difference between world where everything is predetermined and nothing is if in both worlds some guy starts to ponder about the existence of destiny? So in world where destiny exists some guy is destined to become a philosopher and ponder about existence of destiny for rest of his life?

Not so. At times, we CAN catch glimpses of the future, whether ours or someone else's. You've heard of clairvoyance? That's exactly what is referred to. As I mentioned above, there are cases throughout history of people who had "vibes" or "bad feelings" about some proposed action or decision, and acted on them, only to later discover that their gut instincts were correct, and they managed to avoid tragedy because of it. Just as there were individuals who chose not to take the Titanic voyage, the same happened with a few people during the Twin Towers disaster, or the plane that went down in Pennsylvania that same day, or even the Pentagon collision. All those people were wrong to trust their instincts, their sense of impending disaster? I disagree.

Destiny is as much about what happens around us as about how we react to it. A choice we make one minute may change drastically depending on our outside environment five minutes later. A woman's high heel snaps off, and she stops to take off her shoe, thus missing a bus that later collides with an eighteen-wheeler. Or a man takes his umbrella with him in spite of no rain in the forecast, and ends up sharing it with a woman at a bus stop, and they talk for hours and eventually end up together for life. The possibilities are all around us, we just very rarely see them.

Originally Posted by ssjup81

I feel that every person we meet was fated to happen. I also believe everything happens for a reason, even if we don't understand why at that particular moment.

The red string of fate seems to be very idealistic in the romantic sense I'm sure couples who have been married for years believe they were destined for one another even if they didn't know it. My own parents have been together for nearly 40 years and my mother says even now that she and my father were destined to meet. If she hadn't decided to walk to the store that "fateful day" instead of driving, she wouldn't have met him.

^This. That was precisely my point earlier, although I disagree with it being over-idealistic. It doesn't always mean romance, it is simply an extension of what we are destined to experience in our lives. There is, in my particular faith, the belief that what we experience in one life (we go through MANY lives, each intended to learn certain lessons and grow in different ways as a soul) that what we experience in that life is chosen before we are born- BY OURSELVES. In other words, we DO choose our own "destiny" before we are ever even born! And each time, whether we achieve that destiny or not, we are set on a certain path that we may or may not ever reach the end of- or the specific end itself may be part of that choice.

Many cultures share a similar belief regarding souls and the concept of reincarnation. (Gee, even TMNT currently subscribes to the red string after a fashion, at least in IDW!!!) Destiny can be thwarted or postponed for a time, even for one or more lifetimes, but eventually, it will come around again, or so such beliefs tell us. And that is the beauty of it. It may not happen when or where or even how we expect, and we may not see it coming, but it's always part of us, a tapestry of our own weaving- in the space between lives.....

[FoxBoxKid]

If the string is invisible, then how do they know it's red?

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by FoxBoxKid

If the string is invisible, then how do they know it's red?

The important questions right here.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by jth

If April was never born, the Kraang would have never been in New York looking for her 15 years before hand.

So ultimately the real answer to saving the world is time travel... Sorry 'bout that, April.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by FoxBoxKid

If the string is invisible, then how do they know it's red?

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

The important questions right here.

The Red string in attached by god or gods. It's only invisible because it can't be seen with mortal eyes.

Also in Eastern Asian culture the color red has a vast meaning, it a the color used to represent happiness, good fortune. vitality, and long life.

And during weddings in China traditionally the bride will wear red.
__________________________________________________ ___________


The original myth about the red string of fate tells of a young boy who is traveling home, when he sees an old man on his path. The old man tells the boy that there is a red string attaching him to his future bride. The boy looks to see whom the old man is referring to and sees a young girl.

Being young and not interested in having a bride, the boy picks up a rock and throws it at the girl before running off. Years pass and the young boy has become a man.

A marriage is arranged for him by his parents, and when he sees his bride for the first time he is happy to see she is one of the great beauties of his village. However he notices she has an adornment on his forehead. He asks her about it and she says that when she had been small a boy threw a stone at her which struck her in the forehead and she'd had a that scar ever since.

[Refractive Reflections]

Just to add (it's kind of similar to what MsMarvelDuckie was stating) and throwing two cents into this discussion, it primarily boils down to how people interpret "coincidences" and "purely chance" events and their own degree of belief in spirituality, clairvoyance, etc. From a third person it may just be a statistical outcome, but for the individual and whichever path they are going in life, it could hold some utmost importance in symbolizing or suggesting something. Typically with immense success or tragedy (or even smaller events), there's a lot of self-questioning with questions like, "Why did ____ happen? Is that really just random chance? Why is it that _____ happened to me when this person was more/less likely to _______?"

These questions bring up the philosophical topic of free-will and to what degree a person has it, in regards to fate or spiritual forces (if one believes in it). As to how much a person's life is influenced by one's own volition versus fate/destiny/spirituality, is up to each individual to decide on that.

One main difficulty in "resolving" this issue is that we live our lives forward, but we learn, understand, and therefore apply things from a hindsight perspective onto our forward-moving lives, which doesn't always work out in unknown, varying future situations.

[NitpickingMask]

Originally Posted by Powder

So much Tumblr in this thread.

Sadly, your statement is 100% right xP

Also, MsMarvelDuckie, ever heard of instinct? I'm pretty sure you DO have considering you just said gut instinct. If you are seriously using fortune telling of clairvoyance as "evidence", we might as well start talk about spoon bending and psychic powers I feel like that all the time and its 99.99% me being paranoid. Sometimes I'm right, but most of the time I'm not. But unlike most people I don't bother remembering those times I'm right since I'm pessimist all the time anyway. Sometimes people feel something bad is going to happen and nothing happens, sometimes they are right. Thats bound to happen. Hell, a lot of people are always afraid of going to ships or planes and have bad feeling about it. Just because someone person didn't enter the plane that ended up being in 9/11 doesn't mean they really saw it coming, they just happened to be lucky to be paranoid. If you really want to use titanic as crappy proof for existence of fate, you'd better have better argument for it. Hell, I know one really amazing coincidence involving titanic that would have been better story to use as "proof" for that.

And seriously, referencing to chaos theory to prove your point? SERIOUSLY? Do you know what it is? Because its not what you think it is. And your comment about myths.. You are sliding down slippery slope there. Do you actually know what is the definition of the word? It has multiple meanings you know. So why me disliking red string myth would lead me to bashing all myths?

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by NitpickingMask

And seriously, referencing to chaos theory to prove your point? SERIOUSLY? Do you know what it is? Because its not what you think it is.

SHHH! You're interfering with my referencing of Occam's Razor!

[Shut up Netkeeper, nobody is going to understand that reference]

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by NitpickingMask

Sadly, your statement is 100% right xP

Also, MsMarvelDuckie, ever heard of instinct? I'm pretty sure you DO have considering you just said gut instinct. If you are seriously using fortune telling of clairvoyance as "evidence", we might as well start talk about spoon bending and psychic powers I feel like that all the time and its 99.99% me being paranoid. Sometimes I'm right, but most of the time I'm not. But unlike most people I don't bother remembering those times I'm right since I'm pessimist all the time anyway. Sometimes people feel something bad is going to happen and nothing happens, sometimes they are right. Thats bound to happen. Hell, a lot of people are always afraid of going to ships or planes and have bad feeling about it. Just because someone person didn't enter the plane that ended up being in 9/11 doesn't mean they really saw it coming, they just happened to be lucky to be paranoid. If you really want to use titanic as crappy proof for existence of fate, you'd better have better argument for it. Hell, I know one really amazing coincidence involving titanic that would have been better story to use as "proof" for that.

And seriously, referencing to chaos theory to prove your point? SERIOUSLY? Do you know what it is? Because its not what you think it is. And your comment about myths.. You are sliding down slippery slope there. Do you actually know what is the definition of the word? It has multiple meanings you know. So why me disliking red string myth would lead me to bashing all myths?

See, this is why I hate getting into these kinds of discussions. People are always so convinced that their understanding of the world around us is absolute, and that there are no "mysteries" beyond what we commonly perceive as reality. There has been ample evidence throughout history to show that people can and DO occasionally see glimpses of what lies beyond the present, (hey, surely you've seen Final Destination, right?) and can sometimes change their path accordingly. One little change is sometimes all it takes. As for the definition of a myth- Webster's defines it as "a fable; a legend embodying primitive faith in the supernatural; an invented story; an imaginary person or thing". By that definition, even the Bible is a myth, as it fits the second definition of faith in the supernatural. And that is a LITERAL interpretation, mind, but if one discounts the myths of Greece or Rome, or Japan, then one must also discount Biblical mythology as well. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. You either allow ALL faiths (because believe it or not, the Greek, Roman, Norse, Celtic, and Hindu gods are all still followed in some form by people all over the world) to stand on the same footing in their myths, or you have no footing for such statements.

Hmm, regarding the Titanic, I could give you a slew of stories about that, as its history happens to be an interest of mine. Such as the fact that one of the reasons it even hit the iceberg, being that on its last stop in England before heading out to sea, the binoculars for the night watch were left at port. Had they been on the ship, the berg would have been spotted in time to avoid the collision. And that's just one of many examples of minor "coincidences" that helped doom that entire voyage. But that wasn't my point, it was just the first example of gut feelings that came to mind, because it's one I'm very familiar with. The people who chose to travel on another ship, or even just cancel their trips due to such feelings weren't just being paranoid- they had little reason to be, as it was touted as the safest vessel afloat! It was billed as "unsinkable", a claim nearly everyone took to heart (Except the designer, oddly enough....). And yet a few people simply had a "bad feeling', that even they could not explain. And that's the point. It CAN'T be explained, at least not by any laws of science we KNOW.

And YES, thank you, I DO understand Chaos Theory- and quite well. Or as some might call it, the "butterfly effect". Which does include any of hundreds of variables that can change the outcome of any particular event, even when repeated a hundred times. Yet there IS an "order" to chaos, or so the theory tells us. We just don't have the means or knowledge to comprehend the intricacies of it all. To illustrate. You can walk out your door every day at the exact same time, and go to the exact same destination, following the same route each time, but your journey will NEVER be exactly the same, due to other outside factors that differ each day. And yet, if ONE of those factors causes you to deviate from your routine into a different path, it is called coincidence, even if that deviation causes you to change your life completely for no better reason than that it introduces you to a person you never would have met otherwise. And since we can neither fully understand how or why it occurs, most pass it off as a simple coincidence. I prefer to think of it as the hand of fate nudging us in that direction, for reasons we may never really know- or if we ever do, it's only later, in hind-sight. Hind-sight IS 20/20, after all.....

You can't go into a discussion on esoteric topics like fate or clairvoyance using purely logic and what is KNOWN, for the simple reason that those very topics are firmly in the realm of what is not KNOWN, but rather what is FELT and BELIEVED. Logic will get you nowhere regarding subjects commonly thought to be "myth" or supernatural. Because they simply are not logical. I've spent half my life learning and studying those very subjects, both from a historic and cultural standpoint (studied myths, fairy tales, and legends from just about every culture known, as well as the history of several of those cultures), and as part of my own beliefs and understanding of the universe. It's amazing when you can see space, time, and even the mind from a deeper perspective of not only what we SEE, but what we DON'T see. When you can look at the intricate webs of connection between all things, and realize that there IS something "more" to it, you start to understand just how small our perception of reality really is. It's beautiful, actually.


Note- not saying I know all the secrets of the universe- yeah, I WISH!- but I've found some pretty amazing connections, and evidence enough to convince ME that there's more to our world than we can possibly explain..... YMMV, of course.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Hmm, regarding the Titanic, I could give you a slew of stories about that, as its history happens to be an interest of mine. Such as the fact that one of the reasons it even hit the iceberg, being that on its last stop in England before heading out to sea, the binoculars for the night watch were left at port. Had they been on the ship, the berg would have been spotted in time to avoid the collision. And that's just one of many examples of minor "coincidences" that helped doom that entire voyage. But that wasn't my point, it was just the first example of gut feelings that came to mind, because it's one I'm very familiar with. The people who chose to travel on another ship, or even just cancel their trips due to such feelings weren't just being paranoid- they had little reason to be, as it was touted as the safest vessel afloat! It was billed as "unsinkable", a claim nearly everyone took to heart (Except the designer, oddly enough....). And yet a few people simply had a "bad feeling', that even they could not explain. And that's the point. It CAN'T be explained, at least not by any laws of science we KNOW.

Interestingly enough, there was a book by a man named Morgan Robertson called 'Futility, or Wreck of The Titan' that was written 14 years prior to the maiden voyage of the Titanic.

And even though the book was written before the Titanic was even designed there were some uncanny similarities such as the shape and dimensions of the fictional Titan to the real Titanic. Both ships were depicted as unsinkable, both weren't carrying enough life boats to save the passengers on board. Both ships strike an ice berg in the middle of the North Atlantic on an April's Night and both sink into the ocean drowning more then half of the passengers on board.

Another story I can bring to the table is Oedipus. In Oedipus a boy is born to a Thebian King and Queen. Not long after the king goes to the Temple of Delphi and learns that his son is fated to kill his father, marry his mother and by that account bring disaster upon his city and family.

In an effort to stop this prophesy from taking place they drive pegs into the infants ankles and leave the child in the mountains to die of exposure. However a Shepherd takes pity on the child and takes him to a childless family in another city. When Oedipus grows up he learns what his destiny is. Since the only parents he had known were his adoptive ones he leaves for Thebes as a means of protecting them from the prophecy. On the way he unknowingly encounters and kills his real father on the road. After arriving in Thebes he learns the king is dead and the city is under the mercy of the Sphinx. Oedipus is able to defeat the Sphinx and unknowingly marries his biological mother. When he realizes the prophesy he was running from had come to pass, he blinds himself with golden pins and is driven into exile.