About seeing TMNT 2

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

As far as I am concerned, it's normal for shredder to have no character arc. He's a bad guy, as for having no motivation? He did have one, I think your problem is that his motivation was poor.

[chrisdude]

Originally Posted by RaphaelinSTL

Yeah but that's just them playing PR and trying to cover their asses really.

Fans wanted a none-white washed and asian Shredder...so they gave us that, but Shredder has no real character arc or motivation throughout the film as the Shredder role was clearly supposed to be given to Eric Sachs. It's like they're listening, but they're not getting what we're saying.

Or, like they're listening, but they were already deep in production.
We know that the turtles were aliens from Dimension X just before Michael Bay said "alien," and everyone freaked. And they changed that. That was a huge change that would shift the future of the franchise. Even I was saying, back then, that they wouldn't drop the alien aspect because it was probably integral to their sequel plans.

Maybe it's CYA, and maybe they actually care. We can't really know. But we do know they listen.

[RaphaelinSTL]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

As far as I am concerned, it's normal for shredder to have no character arc. He's a bad guy, as for having no motivation? He did have one, I think your problem is that his motivation was poor.

I can kind of see what you're getting at, but that's just more problems with the writing and script too.

Shredder is quoted as saying he wants the Foot to be fully established as much more than just mere myth....or something along those lines. However, the Foot seems to be doing pretty well for itself as they're making national news for their terrorists antics and they've got a successful businessman in Erich Sachs condemning them.

Eh?

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

I will be honest, although I like shredder, I think that he has always been not just a classic sort of villain but a really typical kind of one as well. His outfit and ninja side aside. I think this version of shredder is the most dedicated one when it comes to the live action tmnt movies.

[chrisdude]

The great irony of this film is that it actually suffers from bending over backwards to please the fans. You can't have perfect storytelling and character development if you're rewriting during and after shooting.

[RaphaelinSTL]

Originally Posted by ScrewtheMirageTMNT

I will be honest, although I like shredder, I think that he has always been not just a classic sort of villain but a really typical kind of one as well. His outfit and ninja side aside.

I can see your point.

I mean besides just his cartoon side where he was bent on world domination all the time, the 1990 movie and Mirage series really paints a better picture on who I always envisioned the Shredder to be.

Originally Posted by chrisdude

The great irony of this film is that it actually suffers bending over backwards to please the fans. You can't have perfect storytelling if you're rewriting during and after shooting.

Agreed. Although I might not have dug the story and the changes, I could appreciate the film much more by taking it for what it's worth and the studio being confident in the unique and original story it's trying to tell...as opposed to pandering to fans.

[DioLeo451]

I'll go see it but just try not to get as hyped this time keep my expectations low

[snake]

I'll see it because I know nothing will top the first one in how bad it was.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

What I like about the ot shredder is that he wasn't just a ninja, he was scientific and knew about alien technology. I admire his fighting spirit, every time he failed he kept coming.

[Leo656]

I honestly think it goes both ways as far as the studio goes. They do think they "know better", but are well aware of how fan backlash can sink a licensed property quicker than anything. So they make a few token changes to placate the more vocal people, but do it in such a half-hearted way that it entirely misses the point.

They get the "What" but not the "Why", basically. They know what we want to see, because we flat-out tell them, but completely misunderstand the reasons why some of those things are important, like Shredder being Japanese for example. It's not because, "Well, he's always Japanese", it's because the backstory has always been supremely relevant to the larger story. They failed to grasp the nuance in that, so their effort amounts to little more than pasted-on fan service.

It's not that they completely don't care, because obviously they're paying attention. But people working in Hollywood have a certain type of arrogance that doesn't allow them to admit that they may have been completely off-base with their approach to a project. So they try and have it both ways and often the end result is something that doesn't fully satisfy anyone.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I honestly think it goes both ways as far as the studio goes. They do think they "know better", but are well aware of how fan backlash can sink a licensed property quicker than anything. So they make a few token changes to placate the more vocal people, but do it in such a half-hearted way that it entirely misses the point.

They get the "What" but not the "Why", basically. They know what we want to see, because we flat-out tell them, but completely misunderstand the reasons why some of those things are important, like Shredder being Japanese for example. It's not because, "Well, he's always Japanese", it's because the backstory has always been supremely relevant to the larger story. They failed to grasp the nuance in that, so their effort amounts to little more than pasted-on fan service.

It's not that they completely don't care, because obviously they're paying attention. But people working in Hollywood have a certain type of arrogance that doesn't allow them to admit that they may have been completely off-base with their approach to a project. So they try and have it both ways and often the end result is something that doesn't fully satisfy anyone.

There is also that side where people involve in the movies, want complete creative control of what you see on screen, Sometimes the Studios would have clashes with the producer and the director, if what they came up with, wasn't what the studio wanted.

[Leo656]

Oh lord, you're tellin' me. I've studied way too much about the hundreds of failed Superman and Batman movies over the last two decades, for example, so believe me, I know. It's awful to know for a fact that even the worst of those movies were pretty much miles better than almost anything we almost got. All because one producer thinks Superman shouldn't fly, or this other producer thinks a mechanic named Big Al is a suitable replacement for Alfred, or that a super-hero movie just isn't complete until the hero fights a giant robot spider in the third act, regardless if it makes any kind of story sense, and all the while, the studio is in the background screaming, "We don't care about the story, damn it, write whatever, nobody cares, kids are stupid... just make this sh*t look like a toy commercial so we can sell some goddamn plastic!"

I've seen enough to know I've seen too much.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

The great irony of this film is that it actually suffers from bending over backwards to please the fans. You can't have perfect storytelling and character development if you're rewriting during and after shooting.

I'd say "bending over backwards to please the fans" is pushing it more than a little. They made some token changes in an attempt to please (or should it be appease) the fans and yes the movie seemingly suffers because of it.

Bending over backwards would be if they'd done a bigger changes. At very least doing a li'l bit of research into what they were doing to make sure the changes they were making really would please the fans. They were halfhearted efforts at best.

As to whether I'd see a sequel?

After curiosity getting the better of me I broke down and watched this one and it was much worse than I thought given everything I've read.

To me it's certainly a sub par TMNT movie in every regard bar the FX (definitely the worst in the franchise and given the quality of every movie after the first that's saying something) but it just fails as a movie in itself.

Now some of that I believe you can put down to the constant changes and hope that if the makers start off on the right track this time it wouldn't go down the same way however it's weird that they couldn't make a halfway decent product out of what they had, I'd actually be embarrassed to have let this out in it's current form.

Also I think they've lost a lot of credibility with me (not they had much to begin with) where were the Raid style action sequences they promised? Certainly the seemed to be a minimal focus on martial arts in general? Didn't they promise the turtles would be the focus? Didn't they keep teasing that a theme would be the turtles alienation from the surface world? Where the hell was that? True some of the above could be a case of ending up on the cutting room floor but a lot it seems they straight up lied about. Why should I trust them?

One tip I'll give them that I think fans will appreciate is be more open about the movie during the production. Don't promise it's good show us why it will be good, otherwise I'm going to assume it's garbage.

[NinjaPug]

Are you just trying to instigate **** with this thread?

[chrisdude]

This feels like when they rebooted Star Trek, except this time, I'm on the happy side.

"Where's the social commentary? Where's the naval battle style? Why does it just focus on Kirk and Spock?

I also don't think adding Saki is a token change.

[ScrewtheMirageTMNT]

Originally Posted by NinjaPug

Are you just trying to instigate **** with this thread?

No. What you're seeing is a figment from your mind.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

The great irony of this film is that it actually suffers from bending over backwards to please the fans. You can't have perfect storytelling and character development if you're rewriting during and after shooting.

Yeah, they should of just kept with the story, and then at the end, show the real Shredder, in Japan, not pleased with some loser impersonating him in NYC. That's what I would have done.

[turtlefanforever]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

The great irony of this film is that it actually suffers from bending over backwards to please the fans. You can't have perfect storytelling and character development if you're rewriting during and after shooting.

the original script was crap too

[samxsteal]

Originally Posted by turtlefanforever

the original script was crap too

NO an Older draft was crap there is no proof that Blue door was Even close to the final draft of a script.
One scene maybe

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by samxsteal

NO an Older draft was crap there is no proof that Blue door was Even close to the final draft of a script.
One scene maybe

There's a whole lot in the movie from leaked script. Far more than one scene.

Not to mwntion they were still trying to justify their intention to make the turtlees and Shredder aliens at comic con. Doesn't instill me with a whole lot of confidence for a sequel.