Have you ever disliked any of the turtles for a brief or prolonged period of time?

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Davetello

I know what you mean about OT Leonardo. He doesn't really have a personality; he's just a blank canvas. To be fair he's better in season 1, but after that he just has one mode of action and that's to be serious and straight-forward all the time. This is so much the case that it actually serves as a theme where episodes make a point of this homogeneous personality type e.g. "Leonardo Lightens Up". The guy had to be shot by one of Donatello's inventions to actually develop some sort of personality. All in all he's just sort of 'there'. Nothing wrong with that as I still love him in the show and he's an integral part of that, and he keeps the guys on track in terms of focus. But generally speaking he's just bland and has one way of acting.

On the other hand 4kids Leo is a very layered character. His Splinter sycophancy and devotion to his craft is something which actually develops him as a character - aided of course by Raphael being the proper Raphael (something OT didn't have). This is what is meant above by the claim that the two of them make each other who they are (apologies for not referencing the poster by name as I have forgotten who said it and am currently typing this so not gonna leave the reply box to look). And then of course there's the development he undergoes in season 4 where he finally cracks after the events of "Exodus". That really showed what can happen when someone stable snaps and is a lesson that even the most level-headed and mentally focused people have their breaking point - sort of like when you hear "he always seemed so normal, I can't believe he did that". Mirage Leo is brilliant as well. And I love Leo in the original film - even though he has similar issues with Raph, the argument in April's is more of a heat of the moment thing and you can actually understand it because Raph does go OTT with his impulsive desire to look for Splinter. That's more of an escalating argument, as opposed to the astonishing arrogance and ego displayed by Leo when the pair of them fight in "TMNT".

Exactly. He was fine in season 1, but after that he became bland and Cam Clarke started using a higher pitch for his voice which made him sound annoying at times.

FW's Raphael is my favorite version of the character. I also like movie 1 Raph as well. Raphael, like Michelangelo, started off alright in the 2k3 series, but his personality got worse and became more of a caricature of itself as the series went on.

My favorite version of Donatello is also FW's.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Exactly. He was fine in season 1, but after that he became bland and Cam Clarke started using a higher pitch for his voice which made him sound annoying at times.

FW's Raphael is my favorite version of the character. I also like movie 1 Raph as well. Raphael, like Michelangelo, started off alright in the 2k3 series, but his personality got worse and became more of a caricature of itself as the series went on.

My favorite version of Donatello is also FW's.

Yes, Clarke does seem to go way too high with the voice.

The thing about Raphael in OT is that I liked him at the time. I even still like him now. But now that I am a grown man and know what Raphael is like in Mirage, it just doesn't feel like Raphael. He's a well executed character and he's funny - but he's just not Raphael for me.

I think it's pretty funny the way the two bicker. Two of my favourite Raph/Mikey scenes from 4kids are, firstly, when Raph tells Mikey to shut it in "Reflections" (backing up Leo in the same statement, showing that despite their sibling rivalry they essentially stand for the same things and value family above all else) and secondly when they enter Bishop's facility in "Good Genes" - Mikey is worrying about aliens and 'area 51' and Raph says "can it Mikey I'm warning ya". It's funny because you know that he loves Mikey so much and would do anything to protect him, but here he is warning him like he's his father because he's tired of his immature moaning about aliens.

What I don't like about 4kids is when the other turtles and Splinter smack Mikey on the head. That's wrong.

[turtlefanforever]

every character in the nick series and bay movie for the full duration.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Yes, Clarke does seem to go way too high with the voice.

The thing about Raphael in OT is that I liked him at the time. I even still like him now. But now that I am a grown man and know what Raphael is like in Mirage, it just doesn't feel like Raphael. He's a well executed character and he's funny - but he's just not Raphael for me.

I think it's pretty funny the way the two bicker. Two of my favourite Raph/Mikey scenes from 4kids are, firstly, when Raph tells Mikey to shut it in "Reflections" (backing up Leo in the same statement, showing that despite their sibling rivalry they essentially stand for the same things and value family above all else) and secondly when they enter Bishop's facility in "Good Genes" - Mikey is worrying about aliens and 'area 51' and Raph says "can it Mikey I'm warning ya". It's funny because you know that he loves Mikey so much and would do anything to protect him, but here he is warning him like he's his father because he's tired of his immature moaning about aliens.

What I don't like about 4kids is when the other turtles and Splinter smack Mikey on the head. That's wrong.

As much as I respect Mirage for being the source material, I don't automatically like it better because of it. I liked hothead Raphael better when I was in my early teens, but nowadays I don't care much about it. I prefer the cynical/sarcastic Raphael.

I prefer the way Raphael taunts Michelangelo in the FW series myself. Never cared much for the whole Leonardo vs. Raphael thing. I'm glad the FW series didn't have any of that.

Also, it's a shame no Donatello has ever come close to the FW series one. That version of his was nerdy yet strong and assertive. he felt more like a leader than Leonardo did.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by Davetello

The thing about Raphael in OT is that I liked him at the time. I even still like him now. But now that I am a grown man and know what Raphael is like in Mirage, it just doesn't feel like Raphael. He's a well executed character and he's funny - but he's just not Raphael for me.

That pretty much sums up my opinion of OT Raphael. It makes me glad that Rob is voicing a turtle that as the staff of the Nick series puts it "his sensibilities matches with their vision of Donatello". Although, part of me would like to see a little of OT Raph in the Nick Don.

I dislike Nick Mikey for the same reasons that everyone else has. Nick Raph, even for Raph, is very harsh! He just comes off as a bully.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by turtlefanforever

every character in the nick series and bay movie for the full duration.

Can you expand on why? I'm pretty sure I can guess your criticisms but it'd be nice to hear them anyway.

Originally Posted by Prowler

As much as I respect Mirage for being the source material, I don't automatically like it better because of it. I liked hothead Raphael better when I was in my early teens, but nowadays I don't care much about it. I prefer the cynical/sarcastic Raphael.

I prefer the way Raphael taunts Michelangelo in the FW series myself. Never cared much for the whole Leonardo vs. Raphael thing. I'm glad the FW series didn't have any of that.

Also, it's a shame no Donatello has ever come close to the FW series one. That version of his was nerdy yet strong and assertive. he felt more like a leader than Leonardo did.

Yeah, preferring something by default because it's the source is a dangerous precedent to set. But that's honestly not why I prefer Mirage Raph. I just prefer that depiction of the character. If Raph had originally been sarcastic but then altered to being a hothead I'd still feel similarly.

Hmm, I do care about Leo vs Raph but variation in posters is nice. I see what you mean about FW - Raph taunts Mikey in a pretty clever and funny way sometimes, with some great one-liners.

I forgot to address your part about Donatello in the previous quote, bizarrely. I agree that FW is probably the best Donnie simply for the reasons you say. The original film was not faithful to Donnie (one of the few things I dislike about it) and in Mirage he's more of a clever tinkerer and hacker than a bonafide genius (unlike with Raph then I don't prefer the source material depiction). In 4kids he's a genius but he has a more emotional side to his character. That's great but he just doesn't seem nerdy enough, as you imply. The OT Don is the best, I agree. Plus if not for him they'd have been dead after a few episodes. That's true of all iterations, but especially OT.

People will say it's bias talking but Donatello is clearly the most important turtle in terms of succeeding in missions. If not for him they wouldn't have the gadgets and resources they do and wouldn't figure out ways to defeat enemies.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

That pretty much sums up my opinion of OT Raphael. It makes me glad that Rob is voicing a turtle that as the staff of the Nick series puts it "his sensibilities matches with their vision of Donatello".Although part of me would like to see a little of OT Raph in the Nick Don.

I dislike Nick Mikey for the same reasons that everyone else has. Nick Raph, even for Raph, is very harsh! He just comes off as a bully.

Yeah, Paulsen does seem to be more of a Donatello type. His voice never seemed to suit Raphael either, not even as the sarcastic wiseguy Raph.

Yeah, Nick Raph seems pretty insensitive of anyone's feelings, lol.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Can you expand on why? I'm pretty sure I can guess your criticisms but it'd be nice to hear them anyway.



Yeah, preferring something by default because it's the source is a dangerous precedent to set. But that's honestly not why I prefer Mirage Raph. I just prefer that depiction of the character. If Raph had originally been sarcastic but then altered to being a hothead I'd still feel similarly.

Hmm, I do care about Leo vs Raph but variation in posters is nice. I see what you mean about FW - Raph taunts Mikey in a pretty clever and funny was sometimes, with some great one-liners.

I forgot to address your part about Donatello in the previous quote, bizarrely. I agree that FW is probably the best Donnie simply for the reasons you say. The original film was not faithful to Donnie (one of the few things I dislike about it) and in Mirage he's more of a clever tinkerer and hacker than a bonafide genius (unlike with Raph then I don't prefer the source material depiction). In 4kids he's a genius but he has a more emotional side to his character. That's great but he just doesn't seem nerdy enough, as you imply. The OT Don is the best, I agree. Plus if not for him they'd have been dead after a few episodes. That's true of all iterations, but especially OT.

People will say it's bias talking but Donatello is clearly the most important turtle in terms of succeeding in missions. If not for him they wouldn't have the gadgets and resources they do and wouldn't figure out ways to defeat enemies.

Yea, Corey Feldman was annoying and spouted cringe worthy lines.

Originally Posted by Davetello

Yeah, Paulsen does seem to be more of a Donatello type. His voice never seemed to suit Raphael either, not even as the sarcastic wiseguy Raph.

I disagree. Raphael wasn't the only funny/sarcastic character that Paulsen has voiced. He has also voiced Mighty Max, one of the Animaniacs, Pinky and the Mask. All memorable characters... well Mighty Max not so much.

Feels strange hearing Paulsen voicing Donatello instead of Raphael. Life does take strange turns sometimes, doesn't it?

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Yea, Corey Feldman was annoying and spouted cringe worthy lines.


I disagree. Raphael wasn't the only funny/sarcastic character that Paulsen has voiced. He has also voiced Mighty Max, one of the Animaniacs, Pinky and the Mask. All memorable characters... well Mighty Max not so much.

Feels strange hearing Paulsen voicing Donatello instead of Raphael. Life does take strange turns sometimes, doesn't it?

Feldman was irritating and his voice is probably the antithesis of What Donnie's voice should be but it was clearly a case of getting in a big contemporary star. But as you imply he wasn't the only problem - his performance was average but some of the writing for Don was terrible. I hated the way he was portrayed as Mikey's sidekick rather than as Donnie. He and Mikes have always been close but not in a 'lol we are stoners" manner. SotO rectified things somewhat and the voicing was better but he still seemed too jokey for Don. A great part of that film through is how Donnie is the guy who can't accept that they were essentially an accident. Love his disbelieving scenes with Splinter and Perry in that film.

I don't know about any of Paulsen's other work as I've never followed any of those shows, so apologies for misrepresenting him. But yeah it is strange to hear him voice Donatello - sometimes can be distracting as I almost think I'm listening to Raphael. Life does indeed move in mysterious ways.

[Powder]

It will come as no surprise when I say that I have difficulty liking the turtles in the new movie. That will never change. I mean, maybe they'll be a little better in the sequel, but as far as the first one is concerned, meh.

4kids Mikey was grating. Nick Mikey has finally started getting to me a little, too. I don't exactly hold a grudge with either of the characters, but there are moments with them both where I'm like uuuughh, chill.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Powder

It will come as no surprise when I say that I have difficulty liking the turtles in the new movie. That will never change. I mean, maybe they'll be a little better in the sequel, but as far as the first one is concerned, meh.

4kids Mikey was grating. Nick Mikey has finally started getting to me a little, too. I don't exactly hold a grudge with either of the characters, but there are moments with them both where I'm like uuuughh, chill.

At this stage I'm not even sure I want a sequel. The first is average/poor enough. I've generally avoided threads about the film as I didn't want to p!ss on people's chips too much (the people who enjoyed the film), but I had to make a few comments. I do read a lot of the threads though so I know what's going on there. The place has been split to say the least.

Mikey is strange really. He essentially has the same personality in all three cartoons, but he's more in your face and obnoxious in Nick and especially 4kids. In OT he was the stoner type, jokey type as well but he never actually seemed to want to annoy anyone.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Davetello

At this stage I'm not even sure I want a sequel. The first is average/poor enough. I've generally avoided threads about the film as I didn't want to p!ss on people's chips too much (the people who enjoyed the film), but I had to make a few comments. I do read a lot of the threads though so I know what's going on there. The place has been split to say the least.

Mikey is strange really. He essentially has the same personality in all three cartoons, but he's more in your face and obnoxious in Nick and especially 4kids. In OT he was the stoner type, jokey type as well but he never actually seemed to want to annoy anyone.

That's because he didn't try to be funny or the center of attention that much. His jokes in OT felt more natural. He wasn't trying too hard and just let Raphael handle it. Hell, there's even a line in the OT where Raphael disapproves of a Mikey joke by laughing it off and saying "Leave the jokes to the professionals, Michelangelo." or something like that.

Michelangelo was just chill instead of acting like a needy hyperactive child.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Prowler

That's because he didn't try to be funny or the center of attention that much. His jokes in OT felt more natural. He wasn't trying too hard and just let Raphael handle it. Hell, there's even a line in the OT where Raphael disapproves of a Mikey joke by laughing it off and saying "Leave the jokes to the professionals, Michelangelo." or something like that.

Michelangelo was just chill instead of acting like a needy hyperactive child.

Yeah, that's exactly it.

Although I wonder if raphael's more traditional depiction in Nick and 4kids is what Mikey is reacting to - he feels threatened by Raph's 'masculinity' and anger, so he acts out in order to try and position himself on Raph's level. As you said ealier Raph took the p!ss out of him in FW too, but it was in a more cererbral, less aggressive way. I wonder if FW Mikey would have turned out the same had he had to deal with 4kids Raph.

Donnie and Leo are the same - more emotional and layered in 4kids than OT, so maybe that contrubites too (although it isn't as pronounced as the reaction to Raph).

Meant to say earlier that your comment that Donnie seems like more of the leader than Leo in OT is spot on.

[terrorblade]

I really dislike Leo in the 4kids series. The whole emo Leo phase shouldn't have lasted for half a season. The show also made him very overpowered compare to the rest of the turtles after his emo phase had been resolved. For me, the Nick version of Leo is the most tolerable version of the character. I'm also of one of the few people that actually like the dumb Mikey in the Nick series.

[Shark_Blade]

I dislike 2k3 Raph because he sounds like a 50 year old chainsmoker instead of a teenager.

2k3 Leo is so arrogant at times, I'd like to shove his swords up his ass.

Those are some of the many reasons I don't really find 2k3 inviting to watch.

[Mellie]

Mikey gets annoying sometimes, but I love him. I don't like when he's portrayed as a moron though.

I've always been pretty neutral with Leo. Not a huge fan, but no hate. Nickelodeon Leo might be my favorite.

I've never disliked Donnie. Live action movie Don is my fav.

I adore Raphael, but I can completely understand if someone doesn't like him.

[87tmntfan]

Raph is starting to bother me in the nick toon. But does lighten up some times so it give it some balance.
I only watched a couple of episodes of the 03 series including turtles forever.
And don't really care for is character.
As for the movies I liked him more in the 3rd then the first 2.

[BabyTurtles]

I'm disliking Donnie in the Nick show right now.

I also don't like when Mikey is portrayed as an idiot in the Nick version (but I can't help loving him anyway)

[RaphaelinSTL]

Raphael will always be my favorite turtle and Mikey is a close second because that was my younger brother of 4 years favorite..

I have a major problem with Raphael and Michelangelo in the new TMNT movie. Raph is playing way too much of a giant brute and not only is his design even worse in motion, the way he talks as a "tough guy" is really obnoxious. I always think of that last scene when Raph is in the turtle van talking to April and Raph is going on his "You could've ratted us out..." speech but the way his CGI face looks and his voice just makes him come across so douchey.

I also think Mikey is written horribly. I'm so damn tired of them writing him as moronic as opposed to being naturally funny. I don't think this will ever happen with Michelangelo unless someone else besides Platinum Dunes or Viacom has some control on new TMNT media. I don't mind the 2012 Mikey as much as he's portrayed as much younger in that show....but in the new movie Michelangelo is both creepy, idiotic and annoying.

Other than that I've dug every other interpretation of the TMNT. Shame that new movie made two of my favorite characters unbearable.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Feldman was irritating and his voice is probably the antithesis of What Donnie's voice should be but it was clearly a case of getting in a big contemporary star. But as you imply he wasn't the only problem - his performance was average but some of the writing for Don was terrible. I hated the way he was portrayed as Mikey's sidekick rather than as Donnie. He and Mikes have always been close but not in a 'lol we are stoners" manner. SotO rectified things somewhat and the voicing was better but he still seemed too jokey for Don. A great part of that film through is how Donnie is the guy who can't accept that they were essentially an accident. Love his disbelieving scenes with Splinter and Perry in that film.

Donnie in the original film was NEVER "Mikey's sidekick". He was the voice of reason and moderation, the one who would step back and look at both sides of the equation- and knew when to step aside and let the two Alphas hash it out. "Fight? Fight. Kitchen? Kitchen." He was also more subtle as the "nerdy one" in the first movie, with his quick knowledge of facts when playing the Trivial Pursuit game, the comment during the campfire "I came prepared" so he was clearly thinking ahead there, being able to help Casey with the truck, his joke about Penacillin on the pizza (it was moldy, so....), his assessment of Casey being claustrophobic, or his observations on Mikey's jokes in the last fight. Donnie in that movie is much less the "over-the-top" type of nerd, and honestly, I felt Feldman's voice worked well for that type. He's intellectual, but not a "know-it-all" like some versions. And he was a laid-back sort of nerd, who is as secure in his mental abilities as he is with his physical ones.

Originally Posted by 87tmntfan

Raph is starting to bother me in the nick toon. But does lighten up some times so it give it some balance.
I only watched a couple of episodes of the 03 series including turtles forever.
And don't really care for is character.
As for the movies I liked him more in the 3rd then the first 2.

Of all the turtles, Raph is the one I've usually liked least, save for his OT version, where he was actually my second fave after Mikey. I loved his snarky, tongue-in-cheek humor and cynical, jaded attitude- and all those one-liners, especially the fourth-wall breaking ones. Puns and cheesy jokes have always been a guilty pleasure of mine (I cut my reading teeth on the likes of Robert Aspirin and Piers Anthony!) so I could relate to him in that version better. Every other version, I usually end up wanting to slap him for being such an a$$.....

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

I'm disliking Donnie in the Nick show right now.

I also don't like when Mikey is portrayed as an idiot in the Nick version (but I can't help loving him anyway)

Ditto to this, as I feel like it simply made him into a long-running gag that has long since grown stale. He has had little in the way of development, and what he does have mainly revolves around him trying to prove himself equal to his brothers, and constantly getting brushed off on the rare occasions when he does.


As to the subject of the thread, I'd have to agree that the one time I can recall actively DISLIKING any of the turtles was that 2K7 fight between Leo and Raph. As others have pointed out, Leo was a hypocrite and a jerk throughout that scene, who fully deserved the beat-down Raph gave him. The truly odd thing is that he never apologized for his behavior, but Raph still forgave him. I also dislike Raph at times in the Nick show, as he does come off as a jerk and a bully quite often.