Get Over The Conceit

[IndigoErth]

Honestly though, what's really so offensive about the concept. Fan stuff is harmless and no one is forced to read/see. If it's within the actual TMNT media, what damage does it do? Relationships are icky? Allowing them to have crushes, girlfriends and whatnot would really only add more dimension to them in the long run, would it not?

It's kinda sad to think of them being stuck in a 'forever alone' situation because there really is no one else like them.


Maybe Nick should find Raph a lady friend this time around as well, someone that might be able to mellow him out a tad now and then. Either that or it ends up two bulls in a china shop and best stay out of their way... lol

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Keep in mind I don't mind shipping in general, but TMNT isn't really the franchise for it. This isn't anime.

Let's look through the series for canon ships:

- Original toon: None aside from Raph having a thing for Mona Lisa. Leo also had a crush on Lotus Blossom that faded after one episode

- 4kids: April/Casey, Don might have had a subtle crush on April for a little while. Nothing else other than Karai/Leo holding a grudge.

- Movies: April/Casey

- Archie: Raph/Ninjara

- Mirage: April/Casey, some one off stuff never to be spoken of again

- Nick: Don/April, Casey/April, possible Leo/Karai

- IDW: April/Casey, possibly Angel/Casey too



TMNT is not known for shipping. Raph had a few love interests but that's usually it.

Shipping isn't that black & white. People are going to ship whatever appeals to them regardless of the franchise or the characters. For some maybe they want it to happen while others don't care and just like the concept of said characters together. It's not limited to just "anime".

[zodiac brave]

Originally Posted by Ross Campbell

Cubed is also decrying fans who engage with TMNT in a certain way and saying they should leave their headcanons and "wish fulfillment" at the door, but then he's busy supporting Andrew's Odyssey and Origin fan comics, which let's face it is exactly the same thing, just more acceptable to the average (usually male) fan. it's an offensive double standard.

Cubed, you also assume TMNT shippers and t-cesters are shunned to the darkest corners or whatever, but i'm one of them and i'm working on the IDW series and i even did some work for Mirage. we're closer than you think. >: )

they should film this post and show it every christmas!

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

TMNT is not known for shipping.

tell that to the shippers.

[Metalwolf]

I hope I didn't ask too strong a question earlier. The whole shipping deal just comes off as a bit too odd for me.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

I hope I didn't ask too strong a question earlier. The whole shipping deal just comes off as a bit too odd for me.

Not too odd. As a kid I shipped junk without realizing it. lol

"Character A and B would look cute together." That was the extent of it though.

I am with Cube though when comes to turtle stuff. I don't think I was ever into anything shippy for this franchise, 'cept for maybe an 11/12-year-old me seeing that OT ep with Mona Lisa...but I just like how she played off of Raph, so maybe this shouldn't count.

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

As for the erotic shipping, do people actually feel arousal when reading that stuff? Do the authors get the same feeling or write it so that they and other people can masturbate to it? I never got the appeal of reading about two characters inserting tab A into slot B, what makes it so special over them eating or sleeping or pooping on the toilet?

I'll answer this under a spoiler because I'm sure a lot of you won't want to scroll past it:

Spoiler:

Some people do, sure. Since I'm one of those people, I can say that for me personally? Depends on the characters, how attractive I find those characters, and what kind of kinks are involved. Sometimes I'll just read an erotic story because they're funny. Sometimes I'll read them because they're hot. Sometimes it's an in-between. I don't fap to them, though, but I know people that do.

And as for writers, most of the writers I know don't fap to their own stories either. In some fandoms, erotic fic is largely written for anonymous kink memes where people request what they want to read, and someone else comes in and writes it; I've done those just for the experience in writing, and I know others that have done the same. All of it is done without any names attached to it, so nobody knows who requested, who wrote, and those things don't get attached to your public name. I've seen them floating around for this fandom, but nobody requested anything I wanted to write.

Of course, what makes them special also varies from person to person. For some people it's just the fact that it's porn, regardless of what characters are involved. For others it's that they find the characters in question [and/or any kinks involved; for a lot of people I know, those two things tie into each other] attractive. I also know people that just like the idea of looking into how the relationship dynamics between two characters change when it becomes sexual, and THAT is hella interesting.

Sorry, I can talk about porn and sex for a long time, I should probably shut up about this.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Keep in mind I don't mind shipping in general, but TMNT isn't really the franchise for it. This isn't anime.

[Snip]

TMNT is not known for shipping. Raph had a few love interests but that's usually it.

Jesus you're dense. Shipping is almost never about what actually happens in canon, because we have CANON for that! Most people like to ship because it's NOT present in the source material. Fan work will always have a large portion dedicated to stuff that wouldn't happen in canon. [Which is why nobody cares about April/Casey.]

And, sorry to burst your bubble, but shipping happens in every medium. It isn't exclusive to anime. Look at all the different mediums here -- just a two second look at anything in the romance genre can show you that ANYTHING gets shippy fanwork.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to playing Ace Attorney and shipping Phoenix and Maya.

[snake]

This thread.


Wow.

[Machias Banshee]

This thread has been strange and interesting at the same time...

I hate that people feel the forums are THAT hostile and unfriendly. We used to be known as one of the nicest and friendliest ones on the net.

And with moderating people, there's always a careful balance with speech freedoms vs inappropriate language. Believe me, there are times that I wanna strangle Cybercubed (i.e. Driving Ciro off)...


As for shipping... personally, it's not my thing, so I don't check it out. *shrug* The incest stuff... bothers me on a personal level for personal reasons, but I don't speak badly of those that like it. I just avoid it.

[snake]

Thing is, the forums aren't hostile. Some people are just extremely sensitive and can't take opinions other then their own.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Keep in mind I don't mind shipping in general, but TMNT isn't really the franchise for it. This isn't anime.

Let's look through the series for canon ships:

- Original toon: None aside from Raph having a thing for Mona Lisa. Leo also had a crush on Lotus Blossom that faded after one episode

- 4kids: April/Casey, Don might have had a subtle crush on April for a little while. Nothing else other than Karai/Leo holding a grudge.

- Movies: April/Casey

- Archie: Raph/Ninjara

- Mirage: April/Casey, some one off stuff never to be spoken of again

- Nick: Don/April, Casey/April, possible Leo/Karai

- IDW: April/Casey, possibly Angel/Casey too



TMNT is not known for shipping. Raph had a few love interests but that's usually it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is it possible the reason we never did see too much in the cartoons and comics with the Turtles themselves getting with someone, was because Peter Laird simply was not a fan of it? And he was also dead set against any human/TMNT pairing. Now, Peter Laird has sold the rights, and this stubborn stance of his is no longer in the way, Nick is free to do what previous incarnations simply were not allowed to do.

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

I'll answer this under a spoiler because I'm sure a lot of you won't want to scroll past it:

Spoiler:

Some people do, sure. Since I'm one of those people, I can say that for me personally? Depends on the characters, how attractive I find those characters, and what kind of kinks are involved. Sometimes I'll just read an erotic story because they're funny. Sometimes I'll read them because they're hot. Sometimes it's an in-between. I don't fap to them, though, but I know people that do.

And as for writers, most of the writers I know don't fap to their own stories either. In some fandoms, erotic fic is largely written for anonymous kink memes where people request what they want to read, and someone else comes in and writes it; I've done those just for the experience in writing, and I know others that have done the same. All of it is done without any names attached to it, so nobody knows who requested, who wrote, and those things don't get attached to your public name. I've seen them floating around for this fandom, but nobody requested anything I wanted to write.

Of course, what makes them special also varies from person to person. For some people it's just the fact that it's porn, regardless of what characters are involved. For others it's that they find the characters in question [and/or any kinks involved; for a lot of people I know, those two things tie into each other] attractive. I also know people that just like the idea of looking into how the relationship dynamics between two characters change when it becomes sexual, and THAT is hella interesting.

Sorry, I can talk about porn and sex for a long time, I should probably shut up about this.

One of the main reasons I love to read it, is because we are getting inside the character's head, and it gives them a 3 dimension arc that normally is limited within the official stories/comics/cartoons and movies.

Jesus you're dense. Shipping is almost never about what actually happens in canon, because we have CANON for that! Most people like to ship because it's NOT present in the source material. Fan work will always have a large portion dedicated to stuff that wouldn't happen in canon. [Which is why nobody cares about April/Casey.]

And, sorry to burst your bubble, but shipping happens in every medium. It isn't exclusive to anime. Look at all the different mediums here -- just a two second look at anything in the romance genre can show you that ANYTHING gets shippy fanwork.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to playing Ace Attorney and shipping Phoenix and Maya.

Yeah, shipping/slashing is pretty much in anything and everything. The most popular shipped/slashed franchises I am pretty sure are Harry Potter, X-Men, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars and Star Trek. And none of these is anime.

[CyberCubed]

Shipping brings out the worst in people, I've seen it. I don't mind people's "headcanon's" but once the adult fanart and fanfiction comes roaming in, that's where I draw the line.

Also its pretty obvious that most of the hardcore shippers are female, (before anyone asks, yes, I've seen the vast majority of hardcore shippers have a higher ratio of females to males), its mostly due to trying to vicariously live through the characters and wish fullfillment.

Its no surprise most slash/incest/gay pairings come from these people over supporting, "canon" shippings or ones that are close friendship based. The deepest darkest places exist for these people. Dark, scary places.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Shipping brings out the worst in people, I've seen it. I don't mind people's "headcanon's" but once the adult fanart and fanfiction comes roaming in, that's where I draw the line.

Also its pretty obvious that most of the hardcore shippers are female, (before anyone asks, yes, I've seen the vast majority of hardcore shippers have a higher ratio of females to males), its mostly due to trying to vicariously live through the characters and wish fullfillment.

Its no surprise most slash/incest/gay pairings come from these people over supporting, "canon" shippings or ones that are close friendship based. The deepest darkest places exist for these people. Dark, scary places.

Years ago, when I was a Pokemon fan, one pairing I liked the concept of was Toru (Todd/Snap in English) and Imite (Duplica in English). These characters have never even met, but I liked the idea if the two for some reason. Did I expect it to happen? No. Just all in good fun. It's not "head canon" for me, just fun.

Some people do take shipping way too seriously, but anyone who does to the extent you're implying (DIE YOU DON'T LIKE MY SHIP!! YOU SUCK!), then I'm sure they're like that with other things too.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Years ago, when I was a Pokemon fan, one pairing I liked the concept of was Toru (Todd/Snap in English) and Imite (Duplica in English). These characters have never even met, but I liked the idea if the two for some reason. Did I expect it to happen? No. Just all in good fun. It's not "head canon" for me, just fun.

Some people do take shipping way too seriously, but anyone who does to the extent you're implying (DIE YOU DON'T LIKE MY SHIP!! YOU SUCK!), then I'm sure they're like that with other things too.

I'm not into anything shipping wise between these characters, but I do love the idea that Hitgirl and the TMNT share the same world and they fight together. This is when fanfiction is fun, because it toys with an idea that is more than likely, never ever going to happen.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

I'm not into anything shipping wise between these characters, but I do love the idea that Hitgirl and the TMNT share the same world and they fight together. This is when fanfiction is fun, because it toys with an idea that is more than likely, never ever going to happen.

Yeah. That can be interesting too. I liked Digimon and one thing that highly interested me was Koushirou (Izzy's) adoption. I wanted to read a fic on that, as I felt it would be interesting to see how Japan handles that mind of stuff...but nothing. I just wrote one myself. I find it "meh" but it was something. I wanted a fic about him looking into his past and since no one had written it I did. lol

It's rare that I read fics now, but I've always liked what if situations and scenarios.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

To paraphrase in a less diplomatic manner: has this become a series where enjoying it means actively ignoring all the obvious plot holes and inconsistencies and just focusing on the fun and clever bits? Does it require just going with it without thinking about things too much?

Ah, I see! Thanks!

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Shipping brings out the worst in people, I've seen it. I don't mind people's "headcanon's" but once the adult fanart and fanfiction comes roaming in, that's where I draw the line.

Also its pretty obvious that most of the hardcore shippers are female, (before anyone asks, yes, I've seen the vast majority of hardcore shippers have a higher ratio of females to males), its mostly due to trying to vicariously live through the characters and wish fullfillment.

Its no surprise most slash/incest/gay pairings come from these people over supporting, "canon" shippings or ones that are close friendship based. The deepest darkest places exist for these people. Dark, scary places.

I've heard somewhere that fanfiction.net is often one of the sites that gets the most erotic fanfiction on it, and that a huge amount was done by females.

I think the romance/erotic genre seems to be most popularly dominated by females, the common super-market romance novel (a.k.a the 'bodice ripper') is often the female's version of porn.

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Its no surprise most slash/incest/gay pairings come from these people over supporting, "canon" shippings or ones that are close friendship based. The deepest darkest places exist for these people. Dark, scary places.

Nope, I'm here and this place is for me. I declare it Leatherhead/Donatello time.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

Nope, I'm here and this place is for me. I declare it Leatherhead/Donatello time.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/d782320ab...m779o1_500.jpg

For science!

[DarkFell]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

So do you think in order to enjoy watching it anymore, you would have stop taking this show seriously?

It depends on a viewer chooses to 'approach' the series. It can be a bit of a kill-joy to view the show with a serious mindset. At the same time it would be nice if certain parts of the series made some sense. So, it's a bit of a divided opinion.

Sorry for not totally understanding where this thread was originally going. I assume that this was the direction this thread was intended to go before the rest of us got into the TMNT anti-shipping everything dispute.

[The Big Bad]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

I think the romance/erotic genre seems to be most popularly dominated by females, the common super-market romance novel (a.k.a the 'bodice ripper') is often the female's version of porn.

Yup, it's the genre that's by largely by women, for women, about women, which is largely why it gets the stigma it does. The fact that shipping gets similar flack is not coincidental. Are there things one could criticize about shipping? Sure. It is sometimes used to glorify unhealthy dynamics--Donatello and April shipping, at least if the characters are anything like they are in the actual Nick show--and it can sometimes be quite racist, sexist, queerphobic, etc. However, critiquing those things in the fandom while ignoring it when they're done officially, and while ignoring the way shipping often does things better than canon--Donatello and April are often much better in fanfic than they are in the show--is ugly and hypocritical.