Is there actually any point to life?

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Davetello

The thing about studying, education etc is that I view it differently than you do. For you, it seems to be merely practical, a means to an end i.e. finding work. For me it's about trying to understand things more clearly and learn about the world, whether it helps me find a career or not. It works to a point but I'm yet to find a theorist or writer who can convince me that life is worth living.

I agree with you about studying to some degree. Too bad school and even university can make learning feel like a damn chore. Look at how education makes people hate math and foreign languages, per example. And reading novels.

I find learning on my own to be a lot more fun. Imposition is more likely to breed aversion and contempt.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Prowler

I agree with you about studying to some degree. Too bad school and even university can make learning feel like a damn chore. Look at how education makes people hate math and foreign languages, per example. And reading novels.

I find learning on my own to be a lot more fun. Imposition is more likely to breed aversion and contempt.

Yeah, I agree with all of that. Schools and universities often have their own agenda, so whilst reading it's important to think with a clear mind and know that this person (and the tone of the course) is prone to the same bias as everyone else.

Like Matt Damon says in Good Will Hunting - the other guy paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for an education. Hunting received his for $1.50 from a library. It's a crude reference but it is true.

[Dirty Blond]

What animates you, Davetello?

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Dirty Blond

What animates you, Davetello?

...Nothing

[Metalwolf]

If the underlying idea under all of this is having existence mean something, and feeling that it doesn't, then I ask this question:

How would you define ' meaning?' If you could change something to make it meaningful, what would you change?

[Gunpowder]

I've already asked myself this question many times over, and ultimately have come to most of the same conclusions as you.

When it boils down to it, the only possible thing that can be taken out of life is its availability of distractions - of "fun." No, there is no actual point to life. And that's something I think most people realize. But everyone is always so caught up in their own little worlds, that they unconsciously forget about that. The reason why so many people jump on bandwagons and follow trends is because it gives them a feeling of purpose and belonging - which averts their eyes from the futility of existence. And in a way, I think it's for the best. It's only too bad that so many people have adopted identical ideas of "fun," and that so few people have the balls to be different.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

If the underlying idea under all of this is having existence mean something, and feeling that it doesn't, then I ask this question:

How would you define ' meaning?' If you could change something to make it meaningful, what would you change?

Well, there's nothing that really can be changed. In my view there's nothing that can really give live meaning, purpose, something really important to strive for. So it isn't possible to create true 'meaning', because meaning doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by Gunpowder

I've already asked myself this question many times over, and ultimately have come to most of the same conclusions as you.

When it boils down to it, the only possible thing that can be taken out of life is its availability of distractions - of "fun." No, there is no actual point to life. And that's something I think most people realize. But everyone is always so caught up in their own little worlds, that they unconsciously forget about that. The reason why so many people jump on bandwagons and follow trends is because it gives them a feeling of purpose and belonging - which averts their eyes from the futility of existence. And in a way, I think it's for the best. It's only too bad that so many people have adopted identical ideas of "fun," and that so few people have the balls to be different.

Excellent post. Everything is an escape, a distraction. But my contention is that it's best humanity dies out - then we won't need distractions anyway.

[Gunpowder]

Excellent post. Everything is an escape, a distraction. But my contention is that it's best humanity dies out - then we won't need distractions anyway.

I somewhat agree with what you're saying, but I don't think it's a healthy mindset. True, we don't need to exist, but we do; and within the pile of sh!t that is life, there is the occasional gem that pops up if we try hard enough to find it. Don't dwell too much on the fact that we're a waste; it's a fact, but spending too much time pondering on it is a waste in itself - because we know it's true, so why analyze it more than we need to?

Maybe it would be best for humanity to die out. But that completely lacks predictability and is beyond our control, so we shouldn't spend too much time thinking on that logic either. That's why distractions are so great; they help us forget about all that until our time comes. And "distractions" isn't the best term for it because that makes it sound negative; the truth is that without them, we'd literally do nothing for our entire lives, which would make our existence just as pointless as it already is. So might as well find something to do with ourselves while we're here.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Gunpowder

I somewhat agree with what you're saying, but I don't think it's a healthy mindset. True, we don't need to exist, but we do; and within the pile of sh!t that is life, there is the occasional gem that pops up if we try hard enough to find it. Don't dwell too much on the fact that we're a waste; it's a fact, but spending too much time pondering on it is a waste in itself - because we know it's true, so why analyze it more than we need to?

Maybe it would be best for humanity to die out. But that completely lacks predictability and is beyond our control, so we shouldn't spend too much time thinking on that logic either. That's why distractions are so great; they help us forget about all that until our time comes. And "distractions" isn't the best term for it because that makes it sound negative; the truth is that without them, we'd literally do nothing for our entire lives, which would make our existence just as pointless as it already is. So might as well find something to do with ourselves while we're here.

Fair post. Logging off now but will reply to it properly on my return.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Originally Posted by Jester

Actually I was just quoting a song...

Should have quoted the Monty Python song.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Whatswiththeheadbands?

Should have quoted the Monty Python song.

That movie alone makes life worth living.

[Mzx10484]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Yeah, I agree with all of that. Schools and universities often have their own agenda, so whilst reading it's important to think with a clear mind and know that this person (and the tone of the course) is prone to the same bias as everyone else.

Like Matt Damon says in Good Will Hunting - the other guy paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for an education. Hunting received his for $1.50 from a library. It's a crude reference but it is true.

Yes, it is true and at the same time obvious. I study Social Science here in Germany (state university, without significant costs). Lectures and seminars at University of Applied Sciences are mostly a very good introduction and motivation. Depending on how deep you want to understand topics, you have to study at leisure, reading books. And there are excellent books that convey knowledge and are partially super cheap (clearly, this is due to the globalized world, internet trade, Amazon, Ebay etc... I benefit from it, students benefit from it. Local booksellers disappear).

By writing seminar papers, student research projects etc... you have to read several books, compare opinions, knowledge levels. This makes studying. The entry into topics by professors and lecturers is often very good at my university. As a guitar teacher, he can show you a lot, but you have to practice for hours and hours, on your own.

The optimism about the future of our overpopulated and exploited planet is just a lack of information. You learn more about that by reading serious books, not by watching Science Fiction movies. Nevertheless, I still see no end of the world in the coming decades. But changes and challenges (that have always existed in the world, and but of another kind, in different degree).

A point of life? Anyone can have one! And without religion. There is much to do. The question is, how much do you strive for a point of life? Some do not have to look far. If you do not belong to them, what do you do to get your point(s) of life?

[snake]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Yes, someone opens up a question for debate and all you can offer is sarcasm. I bet you felt very smug when you typed your utterly witless, unoriginal and generic response.

Actually, strike that, I didn't know you were just a young boy. But still, that doesn't grant you license to go around mocking people.

Relax dude. I was just joking.

In my opinion, life doesn't have a point. I just try to make the best of it.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by snake

Relax dude. I was just joking.

In my opinion, life doesn't have a point. I just try to make the best of it.

I know that now. I was just riled at the time due to goings on elsewhere. I also didn't know your age. Your youth makes the sarcasm far more forgiveable, as we were all like that as pre-teens.

Apologies young man.

As for your second paragraph - you should probably stay away from threads like this. You're way too young to be affected by this sort of thing. Enjoy your childhood and don't worry about this nonsense.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Mzx10484

Yes, it is true and at the same time obvious. I study Social Science here in Germany (state university, without significant costs). Lectures and seminars at University of Applied Sciences are mostly a very good introduction and motivation. Depending on how deep you want to understand topics, you have to study at leisure, reading books. And there are excellent books that convey knowledge and are partially super cheap (clearly, this is due to the globalized world, internet trade, Amazon, Ebay etc... I benefit from it, students benefit from it. Local booksellers disappear).

By writing seminar papers, student research projects etc... you have to read several books, compare opinions, knowledge levels. This makes studying. The entry into topics by professors and lecturers is often very good at my university. As a guitar teacher, he can show you a lot, but you have to practice for hours and hours, on your own.

The optimism about the future of our overpopulated and exploited planet is just a lack of information. You learn more about that by reading serious books, not by watching Science Fiction movies. Nevertheless, I still see no end of the world in the coming decades. But changes and challenges (that have always existed in the world, and but of another kind, in different degree).

A point of life? Anyone can have one! And without religion. There is much to do. The question is, how much do you strive for a point of life? Some do not have to look far. If you do not belong to them, what do you do to get your point(s) of life?

Yeah, all of that is very true. I study/studied social sciences also.

Yeah, Cubed takes too much of entertainment and applies it to the real world - it doesn't often work that way. There is indeed too much optimism and people don't realise just how problematic overpopulation and the lack of resources truly are. The world won't cease to exist as soon as the next few decades, but the chances are great that the planet will be fully depleted and overcrowded before we create the technology to travel to other worlds and colonise them.

Yeah, life is what you make of it I guess. I'm glad some people don't think about this sort of thing - I envy that as it's probably the easiest way to live.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Yeah, all of that is very true. I study/studies social sciences also.

Yeah, Cubed takes too much of entertainment and applies it to the real world - it doesn't often work that way. There is indeed too much optimism and people don't realise just how problematic overpopulation and the lack of resources truly are. The world won't cease to exist as soon as the next few decades, but the chances are great that we will the planet will be fully depleted and overcrowded before we create the technology to travel to other worlds and colonise them.

Yeah, life is what you make of it I guess. I'm glad some people don't think about this sort of thing - I envy that as it's probably the easiest way to live.

Nature tends to have a way of balancing itself out.
I believe this life is a product of intelligent design, not one of coincidence
To have a such pessimistic out look to life is truly frightening, I hope you do not contemplate on this daily. If you only look and live in the future and not the moment than life will pass you buy.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

Nature tends to have a way of balancing itself out.
I believe this life is a product of intelligent design, not one of coincidence
To have a such pessimistic out look to life is truly frightening, I hope you do not contemplate on this daily. If you only look and live in the future and not the moment than life will pass you buy.

Fair enough, that's a clever way to look at it. If you view life as intended, then it becomes easier to find meaning. It's like Donnie in Secret of the Ooze - he was distressed when he found out the ooze was a mistake, that the turtles weren't planned. He was troubled by the fact that their existence wasn't something which had been desired - that they weren't 'special', as he says.

I've always felt this way, but when I was younger I didn't understand what I was feeling, and I didn't have enough experience or education to truly comprehend what was going on. I'm not sure whether that was better or worse - it was more confusing, but also less frightening as I wasn't so aware. Now, I just live with it, really. People know I don't find much joy in life, and it's not pleasurable but what can I do? I lack the mental fortitude for suicide so I have to struggle with these feelings. To be fair it's not something which gets to me all day, every day. I can find moments of escape, but it's always in the back of my mind, and sometimes at the forefront.

It's just life. Existential crises happen to people. Some people have been complimentary towards me and what they perceive to be my qualities, and they tell me I shouldn't feel this way. But they can't understand that this isn't about me or what qualities I may or may not possess. It's just an emptiness in terms of existence. I'd be the same regardless of my environment/marital status/wealth/career etc. It's something within and nothing external can solve it.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Davetello

There is indeed too much optimism and people don't realise just how problematic overpopulation and the lack of resources truly are. The world won't cease to exist as soon as the next few decades, but the chances are great that the planet will be fully depleted and overcrowded before we create the technology to travel to other worlds and colonise them.

But that's assuming things always progress in the same trajectory forever, which isn't necessarily true in nature. Populations, even human populations, eventually reach a stable point if allowed to grow, with very little increase or decrease in numbers. This is one the predictions that some scientists have reached, based on their knowledge of other organisms. Plus some places are actually featuring a decrease like Japan, it seems that technology and the tendency to instill heavy gender roles for women once married makes marriage and babies unattractive for many younger folks, allowing a population decrease.

The problem is with population in many places (and I'm not talking about Africa in this case) is that government actively rewards people for having babies. Payments, bonuses, tax decreases, and in poor people's case, benefits for them. This encourages people to have babies who otherwise would have held off or kept them to a minimum (especially with birth control.) Take those away, and the number of babies born (and thus humans) will fall.

[Coola Yagami]

There's no real point to it. I mean unless you're the next thing that creates the next step of modern technology or otherwise helped shaped the world, you're gonna die a nobody. And even then... who can name the guy that invented the iphone? And without googling it. And who can name the dude that invented google?

And even so, eventually this planet is going down. Once that meteor or whatever hits, we're all gonna become some forgotten memory. For all we have accomplished and all we think we did.... all we're gonna be is some footnote on some alien's history class.

"And there was planet Earth... psssh... that didn't last long. Now moving on...'

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

But that's assuming things always progress in the same trajectory forever, which isn't necessarily true in nature. Populations, even human populations, eventually reach a stable point if allowed to grow, with very little increase or decrease in numbers. This is one the predictions that some scientists have reached, based on their knowledge of other organisms. Plus some places are actually featuring a decrease like Japan, it seems that technology and the tendency to instill heavy gender roles for women once married makes marriage and babies unattractive for many younger folks, allowing a population decrease.

The problem is with population in many places (and I'm not talking about Africa in this case) is that government actively rewards people for having babies. Payments, bonuses, tax decreases, and in poor people's case, benefits for them. This encourages people to have babies who otherwise would have held off or kept them to a minimum (especially with birth control.) Take those away, and the number of babies born (and thus humans) will fall.

Those are all fair points. But with medical advancement (as stated not as strong as technological advancement, but still significant) people are living longer, and there isn't enough in place to deter people from having babies - quite the opposite as you suggest. World population has been rising as the centuries pass - the key is to slow the rate of increase down. I'm not sure that will happen though.

Even if it does, the finite resources are probably the bigger issue.

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

There's no real point to it. I mean unless you're the next thing that creates the next step of modern technology or otherwise helped shaped the world, you're gonna die a nobody. And even then... who can name the guy that invented the iphone? And without googling it. And who can name the dude that invented google?

And even so, eventually this planet is going down. Once that meteor or whatever hits, we're all gonna become some forgotten memory. For all we have accomplished and all we think we did.... all we're gonna be is some footnote on some alien's history class.

"And there was planet Earth... psssh... that didn't last long. Now moving on...'

Exactly. I think about this often. Some people will be remembered for what they've done, but others will be forgotten within generations, because they might have done something important to help others but it will never be publicised so they won't be remembered. I don't particularly want anyone to remember me anyway, but there is a sense of loss there - the notion that no matter what you set out to do, it will all ultimately be for nothing anyway - no legacy. I wonder if our ancestors ever pondered this - probably not to the same scale as naturally it was a less enlightened time, pound for pound.

That's it. Eventually humanity will cease to exist and ALL humans will be forgotten, as well as any 'accomplishments', so what's the point really? We are just a ticking time bomb. I guess some will argue that that time bomb will go off long after our generation is gone, so we might as well not think about it. There's no right or wrong answer.