Does anyone wish they could draw or produce art but can't?

[Jester]

Why does my brain go to this when I read the thread?

[CyberCubed]

Being an artist is typically a skill you have to be born with. Its like the people who are great singers or talented musicians, they were simply "born that way" and that's why they have the talent.

Its the same with scientists, mathematicians, and the smartest people in the world, they were born with a gift of intelligence that most normal folk simply don't have, and that's why they're the smartest people on the planet.

Not all people were created equal, there's always some talent some will never have that others will, and vice versa.

[Mauru]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Being an artist is typically a skill you have to be born with. Its like the people who are great singers or talented musicians, they were simply "born that way" and that's why they have the talent.

Its the same with scientists, mathematicians, and the smartest people in the world, they were born with a gift of intelligence that most normal folk simply don't have, and that's why they're the smartest people on the planet.

Not all people were created equal, there's always some talent some will never have that others will, and vice versa.

No, a skill is not something you were born with, you have a misconception. Maybe you are referring to the predisposition for musical or artistic ability, but nobody is going to get somewhere without practice.

Now intelligence is another matter, nevertheless, recent studies have suggested that intelligence can be fluid and not as static as people think. However, the whole concept is just a construct, there are many types of intelligence.

No matter if you were born with a 150 IQ, if you don't have the motivation and effort to do something great, you probably wont.

[Netkeeper]

Thank you. Artistic skill isn't something you're born with.

For me, the ambition to improve my skill was born out of necessity. I have art that I NEED to create, and nobody else is going to do it for me. Better get off my ass and get good.

[snake]

I just started drawing a few days ago. It's very fun. I'm currently working on a big piece.

[Jephael]

Having any skill, be it writing, acting, building, musical ect. is great, but if you wanna make profit on it, you gotta have the right attitude. You can't make it if you've got the personality of Squidward from Spongebob Squarepants!

[MrPliggins]

Nobody is born with talent. It takes time and practice to get good. Any those people, mathemeticians, scientists..they studied hard to get where they're at today. We just don't hear about those years because they're long and boring. Some have better personalities to discipline themselves to study, but they are not born scientists, etc. Same with artists. It's practice, practice practice..and patience.

Watch these two videos:

http://vimeo.com/84022735

http://vimeo.com/87448006

[Davetello]

The old nature vs nurture debate. It's true that people have to develop their skills, but there has to be a degree of talent or ability already there. If I started drawing a lot I might become acceptable at it, but there's no way I could ever become a really top artist. The natural talent must be there.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Davetello

The old nature vs nurture debate. It's true that people have to develop their skills, but there has to be a degree of talent or ability already there. If I started drawing a lot I might become acceptable at it, but there's no way I could ever become a really top artist. The natural talent must be there.

Agreed. Obviously people get better with practice, but if you don't have that latent talent to begin with you'll never get it. Some people are simply born with different talents.

Its the same way some people can't write a story to save their life, yet other people are experts in writing and characterisation and storytelling.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Agreed. Obviously people get better with practice, but if you don't have that latent talent to begin with you'll never get it. Some people are simply born with different talents.

Its the same way some people can't write a story to save their life, yet other people are experts in writing and characterisation and storytelling.

Yep, you can't go from being utter garbage at something to being good enough to be at the elite level of that field, it will simply never happen. But, someone who has 'good' talent can become the best at something through hard work, and outshine someone who is supremely gifted but lacks motivation.

[Netkeeper]

It's like you people didn't even notice the artwork Powder and I posted. Improvements happen. I WAS utter garbage. You cannot pop out of the womb good at art. It is impossible.

If you don't want to put forth the effort and want to use "ur just born with it" as an excuse, go ahead, but if you actually have a desire to get good, you'll get good, regardless of "natural skill", which doesn't exist.

If I can get decent enough at art to feel comfortable showing it to people and putting it in my signature, and I have a million disorders and brain problems that make me as dumb as a rock, you can too.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

It's like you people didn't even notice the artwork Powder and I posted. Improvements happen. I WAS utter garbage. You cannot pop out of the womb good at art. It is impossible.

If you don't want to put forth the effort and want to use "ur just born with it" as an excuse, go ahead, but if you actually have a desire to get good, you'll get good, regardless of "natural skill", which doesn't exist.

If I can get decent enough at art to feel comfortable showing it to people and putting it in my signature, and I have a million disorders and brain problems that make me as dumb as a rock, you can too.

Nah, that's not the argument. You might be good at it now, but there's a huge leap between being good and being top of the field. THAT was my argument. Many people can become good, or even very good, at something. However, if you don't have a good level of natural talent you will never be the cream of the crop.

I'm not even going to get into the 'natural skill doesn't exist' comment because that's just not true. You telling me that my mate next door could become the Jack Kirby of comic creation if he just perseveres? Or the Lionel Messi of soccer, the Lebron James of basketball? Come on now...

My comment wasn't about not being good at something - it's about not being able to be amongst the best. That's different to the thread title but I deviated.

[Netkeeper]

How do you think those people got so good at what they do? They did it a whole lot, and went out of their way to learn as much as they could about it when they weren't doing the thing. I can bet you the top people in any sort of "talent" based field knew a TON about whatever it is they do.

And all of this can be acquired through time, effort, and dedication.

All of it.

All. Of it.

EDIT: Not that it matters too much, because someone's level of skill in these type of departments is usually subjective. One person may think [x] artist is better than [x] other artist. Comparing art to sports doesn't really work since there IS no "top dog".

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

How do you think those people got so good at what they do? They did it a whole lot, and went out of their way to learn as much as they could about it when they weren't doing the thing. I can bet you the top people in any sort of "talent" based field knew a TON about whatever it is they do.

And all of this can be acquired through time, effort, and dedication.

All of it.

All. Of it.

EDIT: Not that it matters too much, because someone's level of skill in these type of departments is usually subjective. One person may think [x] artist is better than [x] other artist. Comparing art to sports doesn't really work since there IS no "top dog".

You can't seriously believe this mate. Yes, people who are gifted have to maintain their level by putting in the prerequisite effort, but you can't just put in hard work and all of a sudden you can be the best. Some of the previously weaker players I play soccer with have really improved and it's commendable - but they're still never, ever, ever going to be Lionel Messi. They'll never even be close to as good as me as I'm simply the stronger player and have more natural ability than they do. That's not arrogance, it's just fact, I was born with more soccer talent than they were and as long as I maintain my level and play as often as they do I will always be better than they are. In fact, I could stop playing for five years whilst they play every week, then I could turn up at football again and I'd still be better than them - simply because my ability with a ball and spatial awareness is better than theirs. If I wasn't better on the first week the rustiness would vanish after a few games and then I would be. They would agree with every word, by the way. All of them.

Well, sport is relatively subjective as well, unless you're some sort of stats-obsessed weirdo who never watches basketball or soccer but judges players by their figures on Wikipedia.

Art is subjective, yes, but that's an easy get out clause really. Your stuff is good but are you as good as legendary artists?

[Netkeeper]

I'm sorry, but when it comes to art, no, I can't believe that, because I can't allow myself to. For years I told myself "well I just wasn't born a good artist [protip: nobody is] so why should I bother trying to improve when I'll hit a peak and just never be able to get better than that"

Then I actually tried, despite that. And what happened? I improved. Because I kept at it, because nobody is born good at art. We ALL start out ******. I don't know jack **** about sports, so I cannot say the same for them. But my art became passable. That was all I wanted. If I WANTED "legendary artist" status, I could work harder and aim for it.

So again. If you want to use that same excuse that I did, go ahead, keep telling yourself that artistic talent is innate and natural.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

I'm sorry, but when it comes to art, no, I can't believe that, because I can't allow myself to. For years I told myself "well I just wasn't born a good artist [protip: nobody is] so why should I bother trying to improve when I'll hit a peak and just never be able to get better than that"

Then I actually tried, despite that. And what happened? I improved. Because I kept at it, because nobody is born good at art. We ALL start out ******. I don't know jack **** about sports, so I cannot say the same for them. But my art became passable. That was all I wanted. If I WANTED "legendary artist" status, I could work harder and aim for it.

So again. If you want to use that same excuse that I did, go ahead, keep telling yourself that artistic talent is innate and natural.

You said it yourself. You can't allow yourself to believe that natural talent exists, because then you will have to accept that there are people out there who are more naturally gifted than you, and that means you can never be the best. The longer you hold on to the idea that anyone can become amazing at something if they put in tons of effort and learn, the longer you can tell yourself anyone can be the next brilliant comic book artist.

That sounds harsh, but it's the way I'm interpreting it. You could work as hard as you like but you'll never be able to be a legendary artist, because (by your own admission) you were rubbish to start with. You can't go from being poor at something to being amongst the best at it. I don't care who it is. The only exception might be if you're very poor at something as a young kid, but if you get to a certain age and you're not good, it isn't going to happen.

I talked about this the other night - I asked if there might be people out there who are better soccer players than Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo, the two guys considered to be the best players in world soccer (you hate soccer but bear with me, I'm using it as an example to illustrate the general point). I claimed that there will be people with the level of talent of these two players but - for one reason or another - they never made it into top class football. Perhaps they were poor (even poorer than many top soccer players start out), perhaps they died as teenagers, or perhaps they simply grew up in an area where soccer wasn't part of the culture. India and China have massive populations, but neither has created a single soccer superstar. Why is that? It's partly because some very talented soccer players have zero interest in playing soccer due to the lack of interest there and have probably never even tried. They have lots of people who do play soccer yet none of them are any good relative to most top class players. That goes to show that the guys with the world-class talent simply aren't getting into the sport. If they did develop an interest, European coaching would harness their natural talent to the extent that the'd be fvcking amazing in La Liga or the Premier League. That's nurture harnessing nature.

There will be someone out there who's as smart as Einstein, but he's wasting his time fluffing passes on a soccer park or missing hoops in basketball. Equally, there might be someone who would be the new Messi but he's wasting his time trying to solve equations which he doesn't have the ability to solve, no matter how much he is taught.

Much of who's the 'best in the world' is circumstance, luck and being in the right place at the right time. However, don't interpret that as meaning that anyone could be the best if they'd been in the right place at the right time. Think of it more as them having the top class ability that the currently recognised best do, but not having the application, desire or culture to develop and harness that unreal talent.

[PangolinFeets]

I know these feels too hard. I used to draw a ton. Cutesy little monster things mostly (lots of Neopets and Pokemon). And then I started dating an artist. Like a real artist. Like Rembrandt. Not kidding. And it kinda made me feel like I was wasting my time and I haven't done anything in at least five years save for little doodles.

Some stuff of mine:

Spoiler:

Some doodles and concepts. Still about ten years old.

And here's his stupidly-good stuff:

Spoiler:

I modeled for this one.

Its cool that there are a lot of talented people here. You guys rock. Don't quit.

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by Davetello

You said it yourself. You can't allow yourself to believe that natural talent exists, because then you will have to accept that there are people out there who are more naturally gifted than you, and that means you can never be the best. The longer you hold on to the idea that anyone can become amazing at something if they put in tons of effort and learn, the longer you can tell yourself anyone can be the next brilliant comic book artist.

What the ****? I never said I wanted to be the best. You CAN'T be the "best" at art. Did you even read my post? I wanted my art to be passable. And it is.

Go re-read my post.

[snake]

Originally Posted by PangolinFeets

I know these feels too hard. I used to draw a ton. Cutesy little monster things mostly (lots of Neopets and Pokemon). And then I started dating an artist. Like a real artist. Like Rembrandt. Not kidding. And it kinda made me feel like I was wasting my time and I haven't done anything in at least five years save for little doodles.

Some stuff of mine:

Spoiler:

Some doodles and concepts. Still about ten years old.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2...ps76ef30a1.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2...psb3c59213.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2...ps7a0135ed.jpg

And here's his stupidly-good stuff:

Spoiler:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2...psd44ac221.jpg

I modeled for this one.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d2...ps18914b02.jpg

Its cool that there are a lot of talented people here. You guys rock. Don't quit.

His stuff is amazing! Also, don't discourage yourself. Do you still want to draw?

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

What the ****? I never said I wanted to be the best. You CAN'T be the "best" at art. Did you even read my post? I wanted my art to be passable. And it is.

Go re-read my post.

I'm referring to the following quote:

"That was all I wanted. If I WANTED "legendary artist" status, I could work harder and aim for it."

You're implying there that you could be a legendary artist if you worked even harder and aspired to reach that level. I'm not saying you're not good.