Discussion about Raphael

[aliena]

I'm new here, but I've been reading for a while. I'm a turtle lifer and I just binged watched the Nick series in July, even missed the fourth to watch the show. I'm completely addicted now. Anyway, I have some thoughts about Raph and was hoping some others on here would like to discuss him.

Leo has always been my favorite, but Raph is now my favorite because of this show. I only wish that they would give him better storylines. I know Donnie and Leo get most of the good ones because Donnie has the Apritello thing going and Leo had the Karai story and he's the leader.

But Raph seems to have nowhere to go. When he had Spike he at least had that to make him standout, but now that Spike is Slash, that's gone the wayside. Then he got Casey, which was great, but even now that has sort of faded away since Casey is friends with them all and is fighting with Donnie over April. I know there is a pretty big episode coming up for Raph in season three, but up until then he needs a lot more to do.

I love that Raph has reasoned that his brothers shouldn't pursue girls since they have no chance with them. He has completely accepted the fact that he will never have anyone for himself, so he turns to other things to take the place of a girl. This reason alone is why I would love to see him get a love interest. It would give him something to actually have episodes about.

I can already hear groans about this idea, but it would give him more episodes and see how he deals with the idea of liking a girl. Mona Lisa comes to mind, but I don't know if they will ever give him a love interest. There has been some speculation that Raph is gay, which makes sense too, but they would never do that. I still believe that he is a realist and knows he has little chance of getting a girl so he stays out of it.

Another thing about Raph is how much he cares for his brothers. One minute he's telling Donnie to forget April and the next he helps him because he wants Donnie to have her so he can be happy. It's also a similar element with Leo and Karai. He pulled the Bros before Hoes line with him because I think it scared him to think Leo could have a girlfriend. He doesn't want them to get hurt physically, or emotionally, which shows that he has a huge heart.

Then there's Mikey. I think he's close to Mikey because he's the youngest, and wants to protect him, but he could be his best friend too. The scene where he sits in Mikey's room hanging out with him when they are supposed to be finding the Squirrelanoids shows a quiet moment between them when they don't have to really say or do anything and love to just hang out. Then when Mikey was able to single handedly calm him down in the finale moved me to tears.

One thing that I think could give Raph more episodes is if he were the one who builds the machines and not always Donnie. As of now, Donnie is the scientist, the mechanic, the doctor, the inventor, the computer geek and the lover? If I can go that far. Spreading some of that out among the others would be better for everyone. I could totally see Raph all greasy after having worked on some car or bike or something.

Another thing that makes Raph special is his unique connection to animals. First we see it in Spike, then in the way that he can communicate with the pigeons. I know Mikey likes animals and has ICK, but I still think they should explore Raph's connection in a much bigger way.

Well, I think I've gone on far too long, but Raphael has so much more to add. I'd just like to see him get more episodes where he's tough and fights tough. One of my favorite episodes, if not my favorite episode, is Slash and Destroy. They just need to give him an element other than anger to create episodes for him. Not that I'm knocking the powers that be, they are doing a phenomenal job with what most of my friends and family call "Just a kids cartoon for small children" Wrongo.

[Luckyday]

First of all


And second, I remember reading a very well written character essay that talks about Raph and it mentioned how he might be afraid of becoming intimate or having feelings in general so if it happens, (and I'm not sure if I want it to happen because of how annoying apritello turn out to be) it would interesting to see Raph (unlike Donnie who've dived headfirst to woo April) being all cautious and skeptical.

Other then that, he's the only one that is really aware of how alone they're in the world.

[Mona_Lisa]

Yeah, Raph is awesome for all the above reasons, although I want to be nice and politically correct and all but I don't like that junk about Raph being gay. Make someone else gay!!!!
ANYWAY.... Yes I think Raph is the only one who gets how alone they are.
I love how much he cares for his brothers and supports them. I think he Let Leo beat him at that video game last ep. just because of the weird sideways look he gave him. And idk why he believed it was his job to clean bigfoots waste but he is really tring to do his part. also teaching Donny and Mikey that there are lots of trees!!!! Lol! That was a good one.
I'm looking forward to finding out about the crack in his shell, I'm also looking forward to this "dark Raph" stuff I've been reading about! I'm hoping for a big ark with Raph and Agent Bishop but that is just my wild idea.... I have no reason to believe it will actually happen!
And yeah I'd love to see Mona Lisa show up and hit it off with Raph to. But I want them to exploit the bad boyfriend angle where he pushes HER away. But he ain't gay just scared? maybe?

[Luckyday]

Well I guess what could happen is that Mona Lisa works along with Donnie to get enough mutagen to turn her back into a human but during that time, Raph became close with Mona Lisa so once the retro-mutagen is made, he thinks she won't have any more reason to be around him anymore, and he starts avoiding her and being all awkward.

[Werecat]

Not every character has to be obsessed with finding love. This isn't a love story.

I really hope Raphael gets a storyline were he gets a chance to polish his fighting skills because he is a warrior not a lover. lol

[Mellie]

When it comes to Raph, I think the girl is the one who would have to be the pursuer. She'd show him it's OK to open up and trust others, and Raph's defensive wall would slowly start to crumble. Or something. I've never been a huge fan of romance in TMNT, but if it's something like that I'd be OK with it. I just can't see Raph acting all love-sick like Donnie.

I don't think we'll see anything this season though. We're already getting Renet and Mikey, and there's the whole 'New York taken over by Krang' thing. Maybe season 4.

I'm REALLY excited to see what this Dark Raph thing is all about.

[Werecat]

Originally Posted by Mellie

When it comes to Raph, I think the girl is the one who would have to be the pursuer. She'd show him it's OK to open up and trust others, and Raph's defensive wall would slowly start to crumble. Or something. I've never been a huge fan of romance in TMNT, but if it's something like that I'd be OK with it. I just can't see Raph acting all love-sick like Donnie.

I don't think we'll see anything this season though. We're already getting Renet and Mikey, and there's the whole 'New York taken over by Krang' thing. Maybe season 4.

I'm REALLY excited to see what this Dark Raph thing is all about.

Dark Raph? Why are peeps talkin aboot that?

[JTH]

First off welcome to the forum.

I understand your opinions and flaws of Raph's character in this series, but your post in a way proves and validates something I've been saying on here for quite a while.

The fact that someone like yourself who became a fan of Raph and became your favorite turtle despite people's complaints of how horribly written he's been in the show, show's that arcs for him are not as detrimental to him as Donnie and Leo. (And that's by no means slating yourself or other fans of Raph)

The primary goal for a writer is find ways to make all characters as equally popular as possible. There are tons of fans of Mikey and Raph; both of which have done next to nothing in the show, but it's because of the characters themselves why they are embraced so easily, by relation to the characters or by how they caught on in other cartoon series before this. To put it simple, Donnie and Leo aren't as relatable to fans, so they need some help to get that.

Leo and Donnie's popularity waned throughout the years compared to Mikey and Raph simply by those two don't relate to most people as much as "The tough one" and "The goofball", so they were given more in this series to connect to the fanbase, mainly crushes and other things that garner human emotions we all have been through. Helping their characters more than in other incarnations.

All I can say is hang in there, Raph will get some stuff soon to appease to his fans, but helping every character gain their slew of fans is the best thing that can happen for the show, and as they say, good things come to those who wait.

[Mellie]

Originally Posted by Werecat

Dark Raph? Why are peeps talkin aboot that?

Season 3 rumors from NYCC. I hope it's real because I'm getting too excited.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by aliena

One thing that I think could give Raph more episodes is if he were the one who builds the machines and not always Donnie. As of now, Donnie is the scientist, the mechanic, the doctor, the inventor, the computer geek and the lover? If I can go that far. Spreading some of that out among the others would be better for everyone. I could totally see Raph all greasy after having worked on some car or bike or something.

Us Raph fans have been saying this for years. And it is annoying, because often the TV series wants him to be just the big, tough dumb guy with a heart of gold, when he's far more complex than that. I agree, in that Donnie wears way too many hats, and I too believe they should have let Raph be the mechanic , and Mikey should be the doctor/healer of the group. Mikey was clever enough to remember how to mix the antivirus in Parasitica, why not let him go ahead and show talents and knowledge in other areas of healing. In Plan 10, Raph showed that he could figure out how to get the orb to work so he could communicate to Donnie, so, there are hints of it. I'd personally would love to see Raph one day go on a training run, and come across a junk yard that has an old bike, and he drags it out and fixes it up, all by himself. It could be a nice replacement since it looked like his previous bike might have been destroyed back in the season 2 finale along with the Shellraiser.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Werecat

Not every character has to be obsessed with finding love. This isn't a love story.

I really hope Raphael gets a storyline were he gets a chance to polish his fighting skills because he is a warrior not a lover. lol

You're right. Besides, the romance in this show is treated too much like a short cut for character development. I think it would interesting for Raphael to learn the meaning of true strength as a warrior.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

First of all
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md3fd...i8r5o1_400.gif

And second, I remember reading a very well written character essay that talks about Raph and it mentioned how he might be afraid of becoming intimate or having feelings in general so if it happens, (and I'm not sure if I want it to happen because of how annoying apritello turn out to be) it would interesting to see Raph (unlike Donnie who've dived headfirst to woo April) being all cautious and skeptical.

This is a good description of him, especially for this incarnation. In Wrath of Tigerclaw, he was still going on about how they shouldn't trust Karai. Donnie then made that, probably sarcastic comment, "Yeah Raph, you shouldn't trust anybody." or something like that. I really do believe that Raph does realize how alone they are and will probably always be skeptical of new people being around given how they grew up. For this incarnation, Leo and Donnie seem to be okay with befriending others. Every incarnation Mikey has been portrayed in this way.

In the Archie comics, despite starting off as his OT self, as the comic progressed and started going in its own direction, you saw that Raph started to become more cynical and stuff, and it was due to the realization that they'll always be the only ones of their kind and that those around them (since they aren't reptiles) will die long before them (which would include Splinter and their human friends).

Raph to me, even for this series, is the realist of the group. He won't get close to anyone outside of his brothers because he probably feels he'll lose them anyway, like Spike...but that's just how I feel about it.

Other then that, he's the only one that is really aware of how alone they're in the world.

Yep, just like Archie Raph.

Originally Posted by Mona_Lisa

Yeah, Raph is awesome for all the above reasons, although I want to be nice and politically correct and all but I don't like that junk about Raph being gay. Make someone else gay!!!!

Well...Raph is the tough, sometimes insensitive guy. If chosen to be the "gay" character, it's probably done in a more ironic sense than anything else.

ANYWAY.... Yes I think Raph is the only one who gets how alone they are.

Definitely. Since Nick Raph is the most recent, and fresh in my mind, I'm going to stick to this version and incarnation of him. I strongly agree with this, which may be why he seems to point out to Donnie how it's pointless to try to impress, woo April as well as his warning Leo over Karai. I bet when Renet finally appears in the series and Raph notices Mikey taking a liking to her (and I actually do want to see how a character like Mikey handles a crush), I bet he'll heed the same kind of warning. That it'll probably never be meant to be and that it's foolish to try.

I love how much he cares for his brothers and supports them. I think he Let Leo beat him at that video game last ep. just because of the weird sideways look he gave him.

I thought Raph one. He stood up and started dancing, sat back down, held up the controller and asked if Donnie wanted to play winner. I loved that moment! They really seemed very sibling like. This is what I love most about this series. The fact that they seem more teen-like, are going through growing pains (Donnie's crush on April and trying to figure out how to deal with it or what to do because it's not something you can look up in a book to "get"/Leo's crush on Karai/Mikey's acne ep/Raph feeling that no one understands him), and their strong bonds with one another.

And idk why he believed it was his job to clean bigfoots waste but he is really tring to do his part.

Yeah, I was surprised over that too. In a way, Raph seems to do a lot around the farm and he also comes across as very nurturing towards his brothers, while also not sugarcoating things. Like how he was last episode when he saw how down Donnie was or how he watched over Leo while he was out, who "barely even slept" while also trying to train too. Personally, looking at it from this angle, I'm not all that surprised he was caught by The Creep.

also teaching Donny and Mikey that there are lots of trees!!!! Lol! That was a good one.

Yeah, which has me wondering why they hadn't prior to this. They'd been there for three months, but I'm going to assume that neither of them wanted to be too far away from Leo while he was in his coma.

I'm looking forward to finding out about the crack in his shell, I'm also looking forward to this "dark Raph" stuff I've been reading about! I'm hoping for a big ark with Raph and Agent Bishop but that is just my wild idea.... I have no reason to believe it will actually happen!

Well, they had that Earth Protection Force (which you all say is referenced in the 2k3 series) and it's official that Hun will show up. Don't see why the Bishop character won't given that the EPF is involved.

That aside, I like warhorse's theory about how Dark Raph may come about.

And yeah I'd love to see Mona Lisa show up and hit it off with Raph to. But I want them to exploit the bad boyfriend angle where he pushes HER away. But he ain't gay just scared? maybe?

I don't know about her. One reason I liked her for the OT was because she was just as witty and smart allecky as Raph was, hence, "Raphael meets his match". They had the same type of humor and personality type. I love how she could outwit him.

This Raph really isn't like that, so if they brought her in, they'd have to change her up. Would she have a slight temper like Raph for them to relate? Who knows.

As for pushing her away, I guess I could see that happening. He did that in the Archie comic with Ninjara, technically. His negative, pessimistic attitude towards stuff and life in general kinda caused her to be put off from him and Raph was even warned of this by his future self.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by JTH

First off welcome to the forum.

I understand your opinions and flaws of Raph's character in this series, but your post in a way proves and validates something I've been saying on here for quite a while.

The fact that someone like yourself who became a fan of Raph and became your favorite turtle despite people's complaints of how horribly written he's been in the show, show's that arcs for him are not as detrimental to him as Donnie and Leo. (And that's by no means slating yourself or other fans of Raph)

The primary goal for a writer is find ways to make all characters as equally popular as possible. There are tons of fans of Mikey and Raph; both of which have done next to nothing in the show, but it's because of the characters themselves why they are embraced so easily, by relation to the characters or by how they caught on in other cartoon series before this. To put it simple, Donnie and Leo aren't as relatable to fans, so they need some help to get that.

Leo and Donnie's popularity waned throughout the years compared to Mikey and Raph simply by those two don't relate to most people as much as "The tough one" and "The goofball", so they were given more in this series to connect to the fanbase, mainly crushes and other things that garner human emotions we all have been through. Helping their characters more than in other incarnations.

All I can say is hang in there, Raph will get some stuff soon to appease to his fans, but helping every character gain their slew of fans is the best thing that can happen for the show, and as they say, good things come to those who wait.

^All of this. Seriously, Raph and Mikey, seemingly, in a general sense, have been the most popular throughout the years (but I could be wrong here). These two were way more relateable compared to Leo or Donnie. Even for this incarnation, I am truly favoring Leo and Donnie because they're coming across as more human-like to me...but, I'm still the most interested in Raph and Mikey and look forward to their standalone episodes or episodes that focus on them.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by aliena

Anyway, I have some thoughts about Raph and was hoping some others on here would like to discuss him.

Given some recent conversations, you seem to be in good company.

Agree it would be good to see this Raph become a bit of a grease monkey. Give him some kind of damn hobby, eesh. (Really other than Donnie they could all use more hobbies.)

And I for one would LOVE to see Mona Lisa show up. Girl has so much potential and room for original story. And even if they don't become an item, I'd love to see her have a passion for messing with Raph, just to playfully bug him.

Leo has always been my favorite, but Raph is now my favorite because of this show.

...I guess I can forgive you.. Those two aren't the same without each other anyhow, opposite sides of the same coin.

[Warhorse]

So, I was just wondering. Since they've been on the farm, I've noticed Raphael has not lost his temper, been cruel, and actually, has been real level headed so far. My cousin was noticing it too, and she thinks it's because Splinter is out of the picture, and that while Raph does love Splinter, it could be the way Splinter treats him that has made him so angry over the years, and now that he's not there to aggravate and spur Raph into one of his rages, Raph's been calm. Or, is he just bottling all of that anger from season 2 finale, and it's just a bomb getting ready to explode when the right trigger is pulled?

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

So, I was just wondering. Since they've been on the farm, I've noticed Raphael has not lost his temper, been cruel, and actually, has been real level headed so far. My cousin was noticing it too, and she thinks it's because Splinter is out of the picture, and that while Raph does love Splinter, it could be the way Splinter treats him that has made him so angry over the years, and now that he's not there to aggravate and spur Raph into one of his rages, Raph's been calm. Or, is he just bottling all of that anger from season 2 finale, and it's just a bomb getting ready to explode when the right trigger is pulled?

I think he trying to keep it together and be the rock until Leo can get out of his funk.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

So, I was just wondering. Since they've been on the farm, I've noticed Raphael has not lost his temper, been cruel, and actually, has been real level headed so far. My cousin was noticing it too, and she thinks it's because Splinter is out of the picture, and that while Raph does love Splinter, it could be the way Splinter treats him that has made him so angry over the years, and now that he's not there to aggravate and spur Raph into one of his rages, Raph's been calm. Or, is he just bottling all of that anger from season 2 finale, and it's just a bomb getting ready to explode when the right trigger is pulled?

I personally feel it's the latter. At the end of season 2, he was going into a rage over Splinter's being defeated by Shredder.

I feel that any anger he has, he's bottling it up or has better control of it, which is good, but I doubt anything has probably happened where he would get annoyed over anything while on the farm.

In Turtle Temper, he lost his temper because of how what's his face was treating him. Other times he's partially lost his cool was because his brothers had done something to annoy him. I just couldn't see this happening given the situation that they're all in.

In all honesty, the only time I could see Raph being snappy is when he was keeping a constant watch over Leo and maybe react out of lack of proper rest.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

I personally feel it's the latter. At the end of season 2, he was going into a rage over Splinter's being defeated by Shredder.

I feel that any anger he has, he's bottling it up or has better control of it, which is good, but I doubt anything has probably happened where he would get annoyed over anything while on the farm.

In Turtle Temper, he lost his temper because of how what's his face was treating him. Other times he's partially lost his cool was because his brothers had done something to annoy him. I just couldn't see this happening given the situation that they're all in.

In all honesty, the only time I could see Raph being snappy is when he was keeping a constant watch over Leo and maybe react out of lack of proper rest.

He's still a hot head. I know all about them because I am one myself. When we have one of them moods, it don't take much to set us off. It could be something annoying like someone snoring, a cricket chirping outside, a leaky faucet dripping, a dog barking way out in the distance. Sure, it's only two episodes in, but still, it's strange to not see him getting pissed off about something.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

I think he trying to keep together and be the rock until Leo can get out of his funk.

Kind of have to agree with that. Maybe not so much in that he's just waiting until Leo is back in order so he can be free to loose his cool again, but with all that's happened I'd think he'd need to try to keep his head about him to help keep his family strong. And likewise the rest really. Not going to help anyone if someone decides to go have a breakdown.

And heck, maybe the sunlight and open space is good for them. I mean, how wouldn't that have a bit of a calming effect. (Ok, so the woods are full of monsters and other creatures, just stay out of that part.)

Maybe, despite Raph's protests of not belonging there, he was a bit stir crazy living down in the lair all their lives and rarely seeing daylight. (Besides, they should be good with this farm stuff, after all they were born with green thumbs. )

[Luckyday]

So I guess the cure for his temper is to get some sunlight. Interesting.