Clarification of Dark Leo and Dark Raph

[aliena]

All of this sounds quite exciting and a bit alarming. God, it would be tough to watch Raph fight Leo, or Donnie, without caring about them. I hope they don't do any memory wiping as that is so sad when they get the person back.

I would like to see a huge fight between Raph and one of the other turtles. I would also like to see Mikey bring him back from Shredder's control. I wonder if this will be several episodes, so we can see them sans Raph for a while and how they deal with losing him in such a way, or if they will do this in one episode.

Are they sure they only want to do one more season after this one? There is so much to go through with new enemies, new allies, finding lost mothers, retromutagening mutated loved ones, possible love interests and the turtles growing up.

Oh, and this would explain why we're getting nice and supportive Raph now, so later on we feel his loss way more.

[aliena]

Originally Posted by PangolinFeets

I was the one who first heard about the Dark Raph storyline coming up. I asked Brandon Auman at the NYCC meet and greet about possible IDW storylines or characters being used in the cartoon (specifically Alopex).
To my best recollection, he said they try to stay away from IDW stories and stick more to old stuff like Mirage, the movies, and 2k3. "But," he said, glancing both ways nervously, "Spoilers: You know the whole Dark Leo storyline? We're going to have something loosely based on that, but with Dark Raph."

So all I know for certain, if you want to take Brandon Auman's word as fact, is that there will be a 'Dark Raph' in the near future. I doubt it'll be under the same circumstances (In the comics, Shredder wants an apprentice who is a born leader.). Perhaps Shredder wants Raph for his brute strength? Or maybe it isn't even Shredder that gets him. I'm thinking Bishop gets introduced and EPF does the deed. Or perhaps a new villain.


As for the comic, City Fall was what got me reading IDW. It's my favorite story so I'm insanely excited to see anything like it appear in the show.

I'm waiting for the collection book to come out so I can read the first four issues in one book, plus the one shots. The only problem is that they moved it from Oct to like Feb. I'm wondering if it will come out at all and if I should just buy the books separately. I'm not sure what to do, but I want to read it now so I can get caught up.

[Bitsy83]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Well we never saw that beat down Slash gave Donnie. We just see Donnie getting dragged away and then when Raph and Mikey find him we are left with the impression that he was beaten and left for dead. And when he tells Raph and Mikey about what happened to him. he says the person that attacked him was like Raph, but angrier.

And also when the Shredder attempts to kill Donnie Raph is the one who deflects the killing blow

So maybe as a test of loyalty the Shredder has Raph face off against one of his brothers which turns out to be Donnie. Raph goes through with giving Donnie a beat down. But doesn't kill him. Instead he claims Donnie would more then likely not survive his injuries. So he should be left where the other Turtles could find him as a warning.

This I could totally see happening. I mean, they'll probably go with the "Leo and Raph" fight because those two are always fighting, but if he went after Donnie, that'd be kinda neat.

I call myself a fan girl and yet i enjoy watching Donnie getting beaten up (in serious ways). What is WRONG with me?

Ok, though, back to this. I haven't yet watched the NYCC panel, so do they say HOW Raph goes bad or did they just mention him going to the dark side?

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by aliena

All of this sounds quite exciting and a bit alarming. God, it would be tough to watch Raph fight Leo, or Donnie, without caring about them. I hope they don't do any memory wiping as that is so sad when they get the person back.

I'm hoping for some foreshadowing to be honest.

I would like to see a huge fight between Raph and one of the other turtles. I would also like to see Mikey bring him back from Shredder's control. I wonder if this will be several episodes, so we can see them sans Raph for a while and how they deal with losing him in such a way, or if they will do this in one episode.

If this is the case, I too am hoping that it's Mikey that brings Raph back. Personally, in the eps, even the disliked ones, I do feel that it shows certain traits of said characters.

For example, let's look at Mikey...

Eps like the Squirrelnoid, Shellacne, Parasitica, Of Rats and Men, and Pizzaface, to me, showed that Mikey can be intuitive and dark (Pizzaface, Of Rats and Men), so seeing him with a hollowed out Kraang corpse on his head with its tentacles tied around his arms didn't surprise me in the least, neither did his being able to survive in Dimension X alone. In Fungus Humungus, we saw how he tried to calm Raph down, which was used in the Invasion, only it was effective there. It's just his way, so I could definitely see Mikey being the one to get Raph back again.

Anyway, I hope there's some foreshadowing, unless there already has. For the most part, Raph has always been the type to look after his brothers. I could see him going dark as a way to keep them safe.

[Ashwolf]

Originally Posted by aliena

I wonder if this will be several episodes, so we can see them sans Raph for a while and how they deal with losing him in such a way, or if they will do this in one episode.

I hope its more than 1 ep, though I could see it being in a single ep but it would be extremely rushed

[IndigoErth]

Of course, it could also be Splinter's fatherly powers that bring Raph back around. Maybe Karai will infiltrate and bring him back home.

Surely there will be a battle though; will be interesting to see what they do with all this since the show has matured to a later time slot.

[PangolinFeets]

Originally Posted by Bitsy83

This I could totally see happening. I mean, they'll probably go with the "Leo and Raph" fight because those two are always fighting, but if he went after Donnie, that'd be kinda neat.

I call myself a fan girl and yet i enjoy watching Donnie getting beaten up (in serious ways). What is WRONG with me?

Ok, though, back to this. I haven't yet watched the NYCC panel, so do they say HOW Raph goes bad or did they just mention him going to the dark side?

This info was not discussed at the panel. It was a spoiler leaked at the Meet and greet.

As for how it will go down, It would be a pretty powerful message if it started off with Raph taking down Donnie or Mikey. I feel like its going to end up being Donnie, since Leo or Mikey have the best shot of getting through to Raph.

I'm really looking forward to his new digs. Dark Leo looks so baller.

Spoiler:

[aliena]

Originally Posted by PangolinFeets

I was the one who first heard about the Dark Raph storyline coming up. I asked Brandon Auman at the NYCC meet and greet about possible IDW storylines or characters being used in the cartoon (specifically Alopex).
To my best recollection, he said they try to stay away from IDW stories and stick more to old stuff like Mirage, the movies, and 2k3. "But," he said, glancing both ways nervously, "Spoilers: You know the whole Dark Leo storyline? We're going to have something loosely based on that, but with Dark Raph."

So all I know for certain, if you want to take Brandon Auman's word as fact, is that there will be a 'Dark Raph' in the near future. I doubt it'll be under the same circumstances (In the comics, Shredder wants an apprentice who is a born leader.). Perhaps Shredder wants Raph for his brute strength? Or maybe it isn't even Shredder that gets him. I'm thinking Bishop gets introduced and EPF does the deed. Or perhaps a new villain.


As for the comic, City Fall was what got me reading IDW. It's my favorite story so I'm insanely excited to see anything like it appear in the show.

Originally Posted by PangolinFeets

This info was not discussed at the panel. It was a spoiler leaked at the Meet and greet.

As for how it will go down, It would be a pretty powerful message if it started off with Raph taking down Donnie or Mikey. I feel like its going to end up being Donnie, since Leo or Mikey have the best shot of getting through to Raph.

I'm really looking forward to his new digs. Dark Leo looks so baller.

Spoiler:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...2647-tmnt1.png

Man, that is so dark. Please tell me everything worked out okay in the end. How do you forgive someone you love once they turn on you and hurt you or your fellow family? I guess if they were brainwashed and are back to normal, you would do it slowly over time. Wow, they know how to torture us.

[PangolinFeets]

Originally Posted by aliena

Man, that is so dark. Please tell me everything worked out okay in the end. How do you forgive someone you love once they turn on you and hurt you or your fellow family? I guess if they were brainwashed and are back to normal, you would do it slowly over time. Wow, they know how to torture us.

Well that leads into all those gorgeous Ross Campbell Northampton issues. There's a lot of hurt and confusion they have to deal with. You should absolutely read it for yourself. I feel like I keep spoiling chunks of it.

Spoiler:

[Vicky82]

I was watching The Invasion again and I noticed some foreshadowing.

When Splinter asked "Where is my Son", Shredder said "I took him, like I took your child, so many years ago".

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by aliena

Man, that is so dark. Please tell me everything worked out okay in the end. How do you forgive someone you love once they turn on you and hurt you or your fellow family? I guess if they were brainwashed and are back to normal, you would do it slowly over time. Wow, they know how to torture us.

Did you ever see Captain America 2? I would assume it would be the same scenario with the Turtles.

[aliena]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Did you ever see Captain America 2? I would assume it would be the same scenario with the Turtles.

I had that very scenario in mind when I thought about Raph being brainwashed. It was just as awful in Captain America, but he does seem to be able to come back from it, so not so awful.

[matteso586]

Something tells me that the City Fall arc will start in that spirit quest episode. I can also see why Auman said "loosely". The Turtles, Casey, and April are currently in North Hampton. And that Anton Zeck and Steranko's mutation possibly sets up the City Fall episode(s).

[Warhorse]

I wonder if the Dark Raph story arc is when we are going to find out how he got the chip on his plastron and crack on his shell?

[Tora]

Could be a Jekyll and Hyde type of thing where Ralph goes back and forth.

[Werecat]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

I wonder if the Dark Raph story arc is when we are going to find out how he got the chip on his plastron and crack on his shell?

I was thinking that too. I wonder if it is a bad or good memory.

[victory_angel]

This is a possible theory but what if Donnie's tooth gap and Raph's Shell Chip happened in event. In Slash And Destroy Raph says "Donnie tried to blow up the lair...again!" Indicating that something like that has happened more then once . We know that Donne converting the remains of his bo staff into a rocket launcher which proceeds to go off in the lair. Maybe that wasn't the only other time can be so that maybe Donnie had another experiment that went wrong and Raph pushed Donnie out of harms way and was hit himself and Raph in response punches Donnie in the mouth knocking out his tooth. And that's why Donnie tends to be passive aggressive around Raph because he doesn't want to be on the receiving end of his anger again.

[Leofan26]

While this is one of the few plots of the season I'm looking forward to, I'm a little disappointed too at the same time. To me, Dark Raph would have fit in better with the 2003 series instead, his anger and intense rivalry with Leo add the mix of Leo / Karai stuff is more of a reason for him to turn into dark Raph instead if this version, he seems more relaxed and Calm here next to 80s Raph.

I'm still racking my brain why the sudden anger and dark Raph.
If any thing this would have been the perfect time to introduce dark Leo plot with what's happened to him and how he feels right now, it also could have given some real emotional scenes between the turtles, giving reasons for Leo to fight back against this darkness he's been feeling all along since the season two final even if brain washed he should still deep down be feeling these things.

Though yah, out of the turtles I'd say Leo has the best shot of getting through to Dark Raph.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Ashwolf

I hope its more than 1 ep, though I could see it being in a single ep but it would be extremely rushed

I think this is going to be the season 3 two part finale, and it's left off as a cliffhanger to be resumed in a season 4 two part premier.

Originally Posted by victory_angel

This is a possible theory but what if Donnie's tooth gap and Raph's Shell Chip happened in event. In Slash And Destroy Raph says "Donnie tried to blow up the lair...again!" Indicating that something like that has happened more then once . We know that Donne converting the remainst o his bo sta can b so that uaybe Donnie had another experiment that wentwrong and Raph pushed Donnie out of harms way and was hs hit himself and Raph in responce punches Donnie in the mouth knocking out his toooth.e viewed

Eh, I don't think so. I think Donnie was born with that. Some people are born with bucked teeth, some with large spaces between all teeth, some born with a tooth higher up on the gum, and like Donnie, born with a subtle tooth gap. Personally, I think they did that so people could tell the difference between him and Leo, because in some lighting, Donnie's mask looks more blue than purple.

I'm pretty sure the crack has something to do with Leonardo. Remember when Slash hit Leo for the first time, and he was like "I've been waiting a loooonnng time to do that!" That kind of anger had to come from somewhere, and not just out of the blue.

Originally Posted by Leofan26

While this is one of the few plots of the season I'm looking forward to, I'm a little disappointed too at the same time. To me, Dark Raph would have fit in better with the 2003 series instead, his anger and intense rivalry with Leo add the mix of Leo / Karai stuff is more of a reason for him to turn into dark Raph instead if this version, he seems more relaxed and Calm here next to 80s Raph.

I'm still racking my brain why the sudden anger and dark Raph.
If any thing this would have been the perfect time to introduce dark Leo plot with what's happened to him and how he feels right now, it also could have given some real emotional scenes between the turtles, giving reasons for Leo to fight back against this darkness he's been feeling all along since the season two final even if brain washed he should still deep down be feeling these things.

Though yah, out of the turtles I'd say Leo has the best shot of getting through to Dark Raph.

You see, I think it's going to work perfectly for this Raphael. He usually lets his anger go via outbursts, smacking or outright arguments, even with Splinter. Now, as I see it, he's been bottling it up, trying to stay strong for the family since Splinter isn't there, but I'm pretty sure, when they get back to New York, he might make it his own personal vendetta to go after Shredder. Raph saw the beat down Splinter took, and Raph was the one who shouted out to Shredder he was a monster, not to mention Raph was the one who stayed by Leo's side the whole time, seeing the bruises on his brother. I've got a feeling they might take a few pages from the comics, where Raphael decided to go after Shredder himself, and Shredder happens to have something that he can use to brainwash Raphael and turn him against Splinter and his brothers.

[PangolinFeets]

When I think about it, City Fall is #12 issues or so? And then a few more in Northampton regarding the events of City Fall. Dark Raph could last the better half of a season.