What are your views on this quote relating to homophobia and masculinity?

[Davetello]

I read this on another site a couple of years back. Obviously googling the quote will find the page, but it did make me laugh. Do you think there's any truth to it?

"Homophobic abuse can be when you accuse someone of not being manly. It's a very real issue that isn't understood well enough in this country, when you accuse someone of not being as manly as you, you're being homophobic. It's not hard to understand."

People accused the guy of talking nonsense, but if you think about it a lot of males use 'gay' as a pejorative in an effort to position themselves above the target in terms of manliness. Is it as much of a nonsense quote as it first appears? Certainly I've seen the term 'gay' used in this manner both online and offline.

[slashpieturtlemix]

The meaning of the word "gay" is slowly dissolving. It is because culture in general has always looked down upon the concept because of how we are raised and taught. The quote is silly but the hatred is real.

[Candy Kappa]

It is often the mindset of homophobic misogynistic asshats, that if a man acts in any way effeminate or like a woman, he must be one of dem gays.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by slashpieturtlemix

The meaning of the word "gay" is slowly dissolving. It is because culture in general has always looked down upon the concept because of how we are raised and taught. The quote is silly but the hatred is real.

Agreed, there's too much homophobia in society and the use of the term "gay" as an insult is peculiar. I've been called gay in that manner before and I didn't even feel slightly offended. Why would I? Surely any heterosexual man who's secure in his sexuality would just laugh it off.

The quote is quite silly at first glance, but to be fair he did back it up with some evidence, showing how 'sexuality' is a social construct and explaining that, to some people, being a 'man' is as much about being turned off by other men as it is about being attracted to women. I think there is some discussion to be had over the quote, although it's obviously poorly worded and a bit too strongly put.

There are a lot of guys out there who think that insulting another guy by calling him 'gay' or 'queer' or whatever is insulting his masculinity and positioning him as inferior and in return themselves as alpha. I'd assume that's where the sentiment comes from. But yeah, you could argue either way.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

It is often the mindset of homophobic misogynistic asshats, that if a man acts in any way effeminate or like a woman, he must be one of dem gays.

Yeah, that's essentially what the quote is trying to say. And also some guys call men who DON'T act in an effeminate way 'gay'. I think it's born of insecurity.

Interestingly the guy was mocked by posting a photoshop photo of the quote. In the photo, a very effeminate soccer player named Fernando Torres was depicted and there was a speech bubble next to his name saying the quote. So the guy's quote was sort of proved, since the posters mocked his words by referring to an effeminate man. Essentially they were mocking Torres's femininity. I will try and find the photo on my hard drive because I saved it at the time.

[Davetello]

Here's the photo. They were essentially taking the p!ss out of the quote by referring to a feminine player. As I say, that can be construed as proving the guy's point, or it could just be argued to be innocent fun. It depends.

I laughed at this originally but the more I contemplated it the more sinister it seemed.

[BubblyShell22]

At first glance of the quote, it seemed confusing, but after reading it a second time, I can see where this person is coming from. He definitely has a point in the quote about how a lot of men will look down on others for not being manly or doing manly things and saying that a man is "gay" because of it when that could not be the case. Just goes to show that there are some mean people in the world.

[pennydreadful]

You may want to check out a doco called "Tough Guise - Violence, Media and the Crisis in Masculinity". It has some very interesting things to say about masculine identities and how masculinity as a socially constructed behavior has been shaped by modern pop culture.

The full doco is 82 minutes; you may have to search a little to find the complete version as a lot of sites often only have the first 7 or 8 minutes.

[Netkeeper]

I'd love to check it out if I could ****ing find it anywhere. Where is it?

[pennydreadful]

Here ya go, handsome. Don't say I never gave ya nothin'.



This is the current edition; pretty much the same as the original version but with a couple of tweaks. The original was actually done specifically as segmented educational videos to be shown in schools.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by BubblyShell22

At first glance of the quote, it seemed confusing, but after reading it a second time, I can see where this person is coming from. He definitely has a point in the quote about how a lot of men will look down on others for not being manly or doing manly things and saying that a man is "gay" because of it when that could not be the case. Just goes to show that there are some mean people in the world.

Yeah, there does seem to be some academic debate backing the viewpoint. As I say my first impressions at the time were to laugh, but the more you think of it the more it makes sense. As I say above, the posting of the femine footballer saying the comment ironically reinforces the point - they've taken a guy who's quite girly in appearance and used him to take the mickey out of the comment, because they think it's funnier to have a feminine guy say it than a masculine guy. You could argue it's harmless fun but it seems quite sinister, if only at a subconscious level.

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

You may want to check out a doco called "Tough Guise - Violence, Media and the Crisis in Masculinity". It has some very interesting things to say about masculine identities and how masculinity as a socially constructed behavior has been shaped by modern pop culture.

The full doco is 82 minutes; you may have to search a little to find the complete version as a lot of sites often only have the first 7 or 8 minutes.

Thanks, will take a look through that when I have time.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by slashpieturtlemix

The meaning of the word "gay" is slowly dissolving. It is because culture in general has always looked down upon the concept because of how we are raised and taught. The quote is silly but the hatred is real.

Bud it went out the window back in the 90's
gay originally meant happy or upbeat/carefree.
When I was younger it was used to describe something as "stupid"

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

Bud it went out the window back in the 90's
gay originally meant happy or upbeat/carefree.
When I was younger it was used to describe something as "stupid"

Yeah, I have heard that too, that "gay" was calling someone an idiot. I think that's more of a North American thing though - here in Britain it always seemed to imply someone was effeminate or homosexual. At least whenever I heard it in person.

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

Here ya go, handsome.

Damn right I'm handsome! I'll watch this later tonight, thanks a ton.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Davetello

Yeah, I have heard that too, that "gay" was calling someone an idiot. I think that's more of a North American thing though - here in Britain it always seemed to imply someone was effeminate or homosexual. At least whenever I heard it in person.

Sounds right. The derogatory term for insulting a man's masculinity is ******, but I heard in Great Britain that term actually means cigarette bud???? correct????

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

Sounds right. The derogatory term for insulting a man's masculinity is ******, but I heard in Great Britain that term actually means cigarette bud???? correct????

'Fa gg ot' is a type of food. 'F a g' is slang for cigarette. Both are pejorative terms for a homosexual so yeah, they have other meanings too.

[Netkeeper]

Is the latter term used that often? I've never heard a Brit actually use it before.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

Is the latter term used that often? I've never heard a Brit actually use it before.

F a g? Yeah, it's used all the time when people are talking about ciagrettes. I hate the word in that context (and the other, of course). It just sounds pretty nasty.

[Netkeeper]

Hm, it makes me wonder how gay guys over there feel about it...

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

Hm, it makes me wonder how gay guys over there feel about it...

Hmm, well 'fa g' isn't really used as a gay term over here, much less than terms like 'poo f' or 'qu een' or 'faggo t' itself. I'd imagine they don't dwell on that for the most part.

I mean you could say that anything could remind them of a pejorative. Someone could say 'that went up in a poof of smoke' and even though it's used innocently in that context, it might brings back some harsh memories for gay men upon hearing that. Some black people in North America might feel uncomfortable when someone talks about spades in the garden.