Serial killers, psychopaths etc

[pennydreadful]

When we say 'crossing state lines' though, is that in the sense of crossing the lines to murder in another state, or crossing lines for the purpose of body disposal or evading capture?

I'm not sure about how common it is for serial killers doing the former, but I'm sure I've read about them doing the last two quite frequently. Generally, that's when the FBI get called in.

There have been some instances where I recall specific serial killers with victims in multiple states; Larry W Eyler for one.

They do tend to start out in areas where they're familiar with the geography though.

Interestingly enough, on the subject of serial killers and geography, there were three (totally independent from one another) serial killers operating in the late 70's - early 80's in California, (more details under the spoiler as I don't want to bother anyone who'd rather not know):

Spoiler:

who were all dumping their victims' bodies by the California Freeway. The police actually thought that it was all the work of one killer as, despite the homicide methods varying, the victims were all young males. For all three serial killers, the majority of their murders were all committed in California, and none of the serial killers knew one another. Given that serial killers are meant to be a tiny, tiny fraction of the population, I think it's very interesting that three serial killers could be operating in one area during the same time. One of those "the truth is much more frightening than any kind of fiction" sort of things, I suppose.

(For anyone who wanted to do more reading on this, the serial killers I'm referring to here are Patrick Kearney, Randy Kraft and William Bonin).

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

When we say 'crossing state lines' though, is that in the sense of crossing the lines to murder in another state, or crossing lines for the purpose of body disposal or evading capture?

I'm not sure about how common it is for serial killers doing the former, but I'm sure I've read about them doing the last two quite frequently. Generally, that's when the FBI get called in.

There have been some instances where I recall specific serial killers with victims in multiple states; Larry W Eyler for one.

They do tend to start out in areas where they're familiar with the geography though.

Interestingly enough, on the subject of serial killers and geography, there were three (totally independent from one another) serial killers operating in the late 70's - early 80's in California, (more details under the spoiler as I don't want to bother anyone who'd rather not know):

Spoiler:

who were all dumping their victims' bodies by the California Freeway. The police actually thought that it was all the work of one killer as, despite the homicide methods varying, the victims were all young males. For all three serial killers, the majority of their murders were all committed in California, and none of the serial killers knew one another. Given that serial killers are meant to be a tiny, tiny fraction of the population, I think it's very interesting that three serial killers could be operating in one area during the same time. One of those "the truth is much more frightening than any kind of fiction" sort of things, I suppose.

(For anyone who wanted to do more reading on this, the serial killers I'm referring to here are Patrick Kearney, Randy Kraft and William Bonin).

I meant it's rare for them to live in different states and murder all over the place. But yes, they often cross state lines to dispose of victims' bodies etc. This is pretty common especially in the Pacific Northwest due to the environment and climate factors there. It's a haven for serial killers.

[TheCanadiandrome]

Originally Posted by Davetello

What are your views on these people? I have to

[Refractive Reflections]

I don't know if anybody heard about this, but there was neuroscientist James Fallon who was attempting to find patterns for psychopathic behavior in brain scans, and found his own brain fit the profile:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=127888976
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ain-scans.html
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...947814/?no-ist

In addition he discovered that he had high-risk genes for aggression, violence and low empathy:

“I’ve never killed anybody, or raped anyone,” he says. “So the first thing I thought was that maybe my hypothesis was wrong, and that these brain areas are not reflective of psychopathy or murderous behavior.”

But when he underwent a series of genetic tests, he got more bad news. “I had all these high-risk alleles for aggression, violence and low empathy,” he says, such as a variant of the MAO-A gene that has been linked with aggressive behavior. Eventually, based on further neurological and behavioral research into psychopathy, he decided he was indeed a psychopath—just a relatively good kind, what he and others call a “pro-social psychopath,” someone who has difficulty feeling true empathy for others but still keeps his behavior roughly within socially-acceptable bounds.

Of course this approach may be an oversimplification of diagnosing who are psychopaths, but it certainly reveals the importance of the nurturing/environmental aspect of the "nature vs. nurture" debate of how people develop during childhood, especially psychologically in regards to this topic.

As for views on these people...?
Dr. Robert Hare (a notable researcher in the field of criminal psychology) describes them (the more appropriate term is "Antisocial Personality Disorder") best here, "social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets. Completely lacking in conscience and empathy, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret"

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

I don't know if anybody heard about this, but there was neuroscientist James Fallon who was attempting to find patterns for psychopathic behavior in brain scans, and found his own brain fit the profile:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=127888976
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ain-scans.html
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...947814/?no-ist

In addition he discovered that he had high-risk genes for aggression, violence and low empathy:



Of course this approach may be an oversimplification of diagnosing who are psychopaths, but it certainly reveals the importance of the nurturing/environmental aspect of the "nature vs. nurture" debate of how people develop during childhood, especially psychologically in regards to this topic.

As for views on these people...?
Dr. Robert Hare (a notable researcher in the field of criminal psychology) describes them (the more appropriate term is "Antisocial Personality Disorder") best here, "social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets. Completely lacking in conscience and empathy, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret"

All of that is very interesting. The fact that he was concerned to find out the truth probably shows that he's a better kind of psychopath, as stated.

The antisocial personality behaviour is well documented. These people feel nothing and are very good at faking traditional human emotions. It allows them to wear a mask of sanity and go through live without ever being detected. They're also extremely meticulous and organised, due to their thought processes.

[BubblyShell22]

Originally Posted by Refractive Reflections

I don't know if anybody heard about this, but there was neuroscientist James Fallon who was attempting to find patterns for psychopathic behavior in brain scans, and found his own brain fit the profile:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=127888976
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ain-scans.html
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...947814/?no-ist

In addition he discovered that he had high-risk genes for aggression, violence and low empathy:



Of course this approach may be an oversimplification of diagnosing who are psychopaths, but it certainly reveals the importance of the nurturing/environmental aspect of the "nature vs. nurture" debate of how people develop during childhood, especially psychologically in regards to this topic.

As for views on these people...?
Dr. Robert Hare (a notable researcher in the field of criminal psychology) describes them (the more appropriate term is "Antisocial Personality Disorder") best here, "social predators who charm, manipulate, and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations, and empty wallets. Completely lacking in conscience and empathy, they selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret"

Wow. Very interesting to hear. That last bit sounds a lot like my sister. She's totally like that.

[Refractive Reflections]

I forgot to mention this one piece of information in the articles that led me to emphasize the nurturing aspect in regards to the topic:

Fallon believes that thanks in large part to his upbringing and support from his extended family, he has been able to channel and damp down his innate psychopathic leanings. ‘I’m obnoxiously competitive. I won’t let my grandchildren win games. I’m kind of an a**hole, and I do jerky things that piss people off,’ he admitted. ‘But while I’m aggressive, my aggression is sublimated. I’d rather beat someone in an argument than beat them up.’

According to Fallon's theory, his ability not to act on his psychopathy is rooted in the unconditional love that his parents had given him.

The 58-year-old explained that his mother had had several miscarriages before finally welcoming him into the world, so to his parents he was a golden boy who was dotted upon. ‘I had a charmed childhood; I was never abused. No one's done anything bad enough to turn me into a killer,’ he said. ‘It shows that your genes are not a jail sentence.’ Around the time puberty hit, Fallon's parents noticed that the boy was starting to show some unsettling traits, and so the family rallied around him, he told NPR, steering the troubled adolescent away from a perilous path that potentially could have led him to an early grave or a prison cell.

In the wake of the stunting revelation about his genetic makeup, Fallon has been consciously altering his behavior and making efforts to think about other people's feelings - something that does not come naturally to him.

[BubblyShell22]

Wow. That's pretty awesome that he had parents who rallied around him. It definitely helped him and shows that parents really are important when they care about someone.

[Amaranthus]

Do you guys like Huey Lewis & the News?

[BubblyShell22]

Actually, I've always liked their songs. Does that mean I have the tendency to be a serial killer?

[pennydreadful]

Originally Posted by Amaranthus

Do you guys like Huey Lewis & the News?

I think their undisputed masterpiece is "Hip to be Square", a song so catchy, most people probably don't listen to the lyrics. But they should, because it's not just about the pleasures of conformity, and the importance of trends, it's also a personal statement about the band itself.

[Leo656]

Speeeeeeeeectacular.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by FoxBoxKid

To anyone who likes serial killer/sociopath stories, I gotta recommend Death Note.

Agreed! Loved all three versions- manga, anime, and LA movie(s).

Originally Posted by slashpieturtlemix

Yeah Deathnote was pretty amazing. Kinda bummed about the ending but they had to end it some time. I think my favorite serial killer is actually Desty Nova from Battle Angel. True class with him!

If the ending of the anime bummed you out, you should try watching the LA movie version- not only was it VERY well done (and the CG was excellent) but it had a neat twist the manga/anime versions didn't!

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

Right on, FoxBox - Death Note was awesome.

Yup. It's one of my favorite anime, at least for the first two seasons. Not sure how much further it went after that. Preferred the LA version, though.

[FoxBoxKid]

Started watching Hannibal a couple of days ago. The show's brimming with psychopaths and serial killers.

[Hannurdock]

Seen Hannibal. It was very gory. Liked the series though, just tuned out all the brain matter and cannibalism.

[FoxBoxKid]

While watching Hannibal, I realized I really want a video game where you play as a serial killer.You'd be able to customize your character including their M.O. Basically, an actual murder simulator. And you'd get a higher score the less evidence you leave. Thoughts?

[Davetello]

Yeah, Hannibal is really good for a network show.

FoxBox - yeah, I've wanted to play a game where we take control of a serial killer, too. It would be fairly disturbing but disturbing media is quite common nowadays anyway. I read a debate on this once, but opinions were mixed. Some people were horrified at the thought of playing as a serial killer. It might have been in relation to a potential Dexter game, but that character is a killer of killers, so it's not like murdering innocent people.

That new game where you take control of a spree killer might be the closest thing to taking control of a serial killer, although they're obviously defined very differently. Ultimately, though, you're a guy killing innocent people.

[Zulithe]

i've watched plenty of documentaries and read a lot of material about them. I'm interested in learning about and hopefully understanding, to some degree, what some people are capable of and what lead them to do it in the first place.

Few weeks ago I saw a film about a child that went missing in the 70s and they never got to the bottom of it despite having some strong suspects. It was titled "Have You Seen Andy?" That's one I would recommend, if you can find a copy. It's somewhat rare.

The disappearance of Etan Patz is another case that really irritates me, if you look into it you'll probably understand why. Several people over the years have confessed to being involved and it's all turned up to be ********. I think that's another element that draws people to them sometimes, there is an inherent mystery to it and not a manufactured one that has a pre-planned solution like in a novel.

I don't think there's anything strange about it being interested in these subjects, it's better that we acknowledge the messed up things that happen in our world than to just ignore it IMO.

[Davetello]

Originally Posted by Zulithe

i've watched plenty of documentaries and read a lot of material about them. I'm interested in learning about and hopefully understanding, to some degree, what some people are capable of and what lead them to do it in the first place.

Few weeks ago I saw a film about a child that went missing in the 70s and they never got to the bottom of it despite having some strong suspects. It was titled "Have You Seen Andy?" That's one I would recommend, if you can find a copy. It's somewhat rare.

The disappearance of Etan Patz is another case that really irritates me, if you look into it you'll probably understand why. Several people over the years have confessed to being involved and it's all turned up to be ********. I think that's another element that draws people to them sometimes, there is an inherent mystery to it and not a manufactured one that has a pre-planned solution like in a novel.

I don't think there's anything strange about it being interested in these subjects, it's better that we acknowledge the messed up things that happen in our world than to just ignore it IMO.

Yes man, I agree. We need to develop a better understanding of these people for practical purposes (finding them) as well as psychological (to better understand the human condition and how the brain works).

[CaliperCat]

I find myself being drawn to studying serial killers for purposes of psychology as well, in particular how nature and nature seem to affect their behavior. It's fascinating how some serial killers grow up in perfectly normal, loving families, while some have truly depressing/horrifying childhoods. It seems to me that those who experienced some form of abuse as children tend to be the ones who justify their actions with anger or hatred for their chosen target segment. The ones with more nondescript childhoods seem to kill for sexual/personal pleasure/curiosity than any anger towards a particular demographic.