10 Ways To Make Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2 Not Suck

[Bry]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

In any event, I hope this doesn't become a trend, but looks as though PDMT and IDW have rewritten the origin as far as most are concerned.
http://www.kidzworld.com/article/292...-cam-interview

From the link:
""We all know that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles started out as abandoned scientific pets - Kidzworld caught up with Corey, an Outreach Coordinator ...


ugh.

That was really my main concern here - that this version would supplant all the good ones in the public eye somehow, and that the original origin, the one that actually matters and gives the characters and their world some depth and an actual theme, would be forgotten.

I mean... I don't think it's gonna happen, exactly. There are still too many talented folks involved in the franchise (Nick and IDW, mainly) with respect for the property who won't let that happen. But that's not a door that should have been opened.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I don't see the big deal here... after all, the IDW origin involves the Turtles being lab experiments as well. (And reincarnated Japanese children as well.) And honestly, I think the IDW origin is the best of all the different TMNT origins. Platinum Dunes just didn't do the new origin WELL.

[Bry]

It's the complete lack of any Saki/Yoshi connection that gets me. As long as you preserve that and the vengeance theme, then sure, go nuts. But without that as a starting point, the characters and their motivations suffer a lot.

I can be a bit of a Mirage purist and still prefer that version the most, but IDW handled their changes very well. The BayTurtles writers... did not.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I don't see the big deal here... after all, the IDW origin involves the Turtles being lab experiments as well. (And reincarnated Japanese children as well.) And honestly, I think the IDW origin is the best of all the different TMNT origins.

Sorry, but it just bears repeating



The "new" origin devalues the story. It's not even remotely interesting, specifically because it removes the entire thrust of the story itself.

It's cool that you prefer it, and I don't wish to argue with you, but that's simply just not the story; it's an adaptation of the story.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

10. No Shredder - Yes. We've seen Shredder 1 million times already. Have him return for the 3rd movie.

9. Brotherly Love - I thought there was plenty of this already, except the movie is too short. Longer movie lends itself to more brotherly interactions.

8. Look To The 2003 Series - NO NO NO NO NO. The animation and acting is terrible, not sure what show this person was watching. To me the show is virtually unwatchable.

7. Improved Designs - I agree only if they are subtle changes. Any major changes need to be written into the story. I have never watched TMNT II or III without being bothered by how different the turtles look from the 1990 movie.

6. Visible Action - Yes. Now that the story is out of the way, we can set up simple "Turtles vs bad guys". They can have a ton of action in the new one and I think that's what everyone wants.

5. Don’t Forget They’re Ninjas - This has pretty much never been represented in TMNT movies, except maybe the 1990 movie, and a little in the sequel.

4. Bring Back Casey Jones - Yes please. Casey can be added almost like a 5th Turtle, he does not need his own story, he can just be there with them, fighting and interacting. He should not, and can not be the focus of the movie.

3. April Is Not The Star - I disagree that April was the star of the first movie, you could say she's the star of the 1990 movie if you really think about it. I do agree less is better. The one thing the SOTO did was giving her really zero importance, she's just kind of there to set up jokes. That's how it should be in the new movie.

2. No More Origin - YES. The best thing to compare to is The Dark Knight. They didn't refer to Batman Begins one time. It's a stand alone movie out of the trilogy. We know what happened to the Turtles, we do not need to keep talking about it. We need to see them save the city.

1. Find A Team That Actually Likes The Turtles - Well, I'm not going to say the people involved didn't like the turtles, Bay most likely was not a fan at all, but Leibesman and Brad Fuller talked a lot about being fans. I'm just not sure they're fans of the right things when it comes to TMNT. They really should hire a group of fans to run things past before approving the script, I don't see why movie studios don't do this in the first place. Especially with how "fanboys" criticize every single comic book movie that gets made.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

I am so tired of writing TMNT2014 or Bayturtles, or the film from this year etc.

I think it needs shortening to PDNT, unless y'all have something better.

Just call it Ninja Turtles...they made the "Teenage Mutant" part so small on every poster anyway, and Ninja Turtles is what they wanted to call it before the backlash.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Oh, I agree--they COMPLETELY botched the Saki/Yoshi backstory. But in the original comics, the mutation of the Turtles and the ninja portion of their origin (Yoshi/Saki/Foot Clan) are two separate issues. That's what I meant.

I'm fine with them being mutated as science experiments rather than by accident. But learning ninjitsu from a book? And Shredder and Splinter knowing and hating each other because... reasons?

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

The "new" origin devalues the story.

Pretty much sums it up for me. If people want to tinker with different ideas, fine, go for it... but if "lab animals" becomes the norm... wtf.

Origin (imo) matters/means more with a bit of serendipity. Fun word, funner result.

[Bloodsucker]

Hello everybody! I am back from the vacation! How are you all!
I agree with the most parts of what is said, but still think it could be the best thing to start again all over from the start. I think it will be very possible the sequel will be worse than before, but my new year plan is to be more than optometrist. Ill be very happy if it comes out better this time.

[IndigoErth]

Spoiler:

Oh no, run!

I mean... Hey.

God I hope it's not worse... please let it be one of those select films that manages to improve with the second. I know that's asking a lot because most can't accomplish that, but fingers crossed for now, at least until we start hearing about what's planned. I just hope they are a bit more open and no so under wraps for so long this time.

And good luck with the optometry.

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Bloodsucker

my new year plan is to be more than optometrist.

[Bloodsucker]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Spoiler:

Oh no, run!

I mean... Hey.

God I hope it's not worse... please let it be one of those select films that manages to improve with the second. I know that's asking a lot because most can't accomplish that, but fingers crossed for now, at least until we start hearing about what's planned. I just hope they are a bit more open and no so under wraps for so long this time.

And good luck with the optometry.

Hi INDIGOERTH how are you! I miss my friends over the time I was gone!

[Galactus]

Sadly I feel this was inevitable. I distinctly remember a press release when the first trailer hit saying how the origin and story would be based on the original comics as opposed to the animates series.

A lot of the people involved certainly made similar comments even down the guy who designed the turtles publicly stating they were based on the original Eastman and Laird takes. Even the two Williams Fichtner and Arnett talked as if their roles were taken from comics - not that I'm blaming them obviously they were just misled in that regard.

It should really come as no surprise that others fell for it too. You don't have to look far on the net for defenders of the movie that don't know any better to say that fans shouldn't moan as it was true to the original comics books or the '03 series because that's what they've read.

It's often asked why Hollywood bothers with origin movies for comic book heroes when everyone knows the origins and not just jump in but I do think the general public needs to be leaned in to these things and with TMNT I don't think everyone really did know the origin anyway. This movie had muddies waters further.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

I don't see the big deal here... after all, the IDW origin involves the Turtles being lab experiments as well. (And reincarnated Japanese children as well.) And honestly, I think the IDW origin is the best of all the different TMNT origins. Platinum Dunes just didn't do the new origin WELL.

Well I give the movie this; by setting the lab origin 15 years in the past it overlooks IDW's insta-mutation which I don't think works in a world which is supposed to be at least semi-serious.

As you might guess I'm not the biggest fan of the IDW books and especially their origin. It actually has a practical drawback when it comes to the other mutant characters. If we're to accept the turtles and Splinter could quickly become intelligent due to them being reincarnated than what about all the other mutant characters? I know they've addressed this but not in a satisfactory way imo. I know Bobby Curnow said they would do things differently if they could go back to those first issues and I often wonder if it was in reference to this.

This is where simplicity works better. Trying to come up with origins where everything is connected sounds cool but more often than not it makes things far more complicated especially when it's overdone like the new movie.

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

If the designs had been good, and the origin been correct to either Mirage or FW, I could have overlooked many of the other issues.

I really hoped Fox would prove the fans wrong, and deliver a great performance. I realize now I backed the wrong horse .

If they bring anyone back at all, it needs to be Tohoru Masamune. He was actually good in his brief role, and has a great voice, and was the only one to turn in a good performance.

In any event, I hope this doesn't become a trend, but looks as though PDMT and IDW have rewritten the origin as far as most are concerned.
http://www.kidzworld.com/article/292...-cam-interview

From the link:
""We all know that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles started out as abandoned scientific pets - Kidzworld caught up with Corey, an Outreach Coordinator ...


ugh.

God-f*cking-dammit.

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

If the designs had been good, and the origin been correct to either Mirage or FW, I could have overlooked many of the other issues.

I really hoped Fox would prove the fans wrong, and deliver a great performance. I realize now I backed the wrong horse .

If they bring anyone back at all, it needs to be Tohoru Masamune. He was actually good in his brief role, and has a great voice, and was the only one to turn in a good performance.

In any event, I hope this doesn't become a trend, but looks as though PDMT and IDW have rewritten the origin as far as most are concerned.
http://www.kidzworld.com/article/292...-cam-interview

From the link:
""We all know that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles started out as abandoned scientific pets - Kidzworld caught up with Corey, an Outreach Coordinator ...


ugh.

whoever wrote that article on kidzworld knows nothing about the Turtles History. I would just ignore it.

[Galactus]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

God I hope it's not worse... please let it be one of those select films that manages to improve with the second. I know that's asking a lot because most can't accomplish that, but fingers crossed for now, at least until we start hearing about what's planned. I just hope they are a bit more open and no so under wraps for so long this time.

There are quite a few sequels that are better than the first movie. Sadly I can't think of a good sequel to a truly awful movie.

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

10. No Shredder - Yes. We've seen Shredder 1 million times already. Have him return for the 3rd movie.

Not only is it unlikely that Platinum Dunes will let go of their heroin like addiction to the superficial aspects of the Fred Wolf show where Shredder was an almost ever-present enemy I'm not sure Bebop and Rocksteady really work without Shredder. Why would they be made into mutants if not by the Foot to get revenge and who would be in charge of the Foot? Hopefully not Eric Sacks.

Not to mention I'd like the movie to at least try and give a good Shredder and TMNT connection - to fix the mess the 2014 movie did with story of course the odds of that are slim to none.

9. Brotherly Love - I thought there was plenty of this already, except the movie is too short. Longer movie lends itself to more brotherly interactions.

There really wasn't. It's implied relying on knowledge of previous versions but never shown.

8. Look To The 2003 Series - NO NO NO NO NO. The animation and acting is terrible, not sure what show this person was watching. To me the show is virtually unwatchable.

YES YES YES YES YES....well maybe.

It was a great show, popular among the fans and if they were going to base it on one animated series this is the one they should go for. They wont but they should.

7. Improved Designs - I agree only if they are subtle changes. Any major changes need to be written into the story. I have never watched TMNT II or III without being bothered by how different the turtles look from the 1990 movie.

I don't think the integrity of the 2014 movie is worth preserving.

Unlikely to happen as despite their knowledge that no one really liked it hence their promise of a different direction they're still going to want to sell this credibly as a sequel so sadly I don't think they going to change much.

I know it's shallow but one thing I really would like is if they got rid of the loin cloths and Donatello using mother boards and crotch coverings. It just looks stupid. Then again their over abundance of crap has got to go too.

6. Visible Action - Yes. Now that the story is out of the way, we can set up simple "Turtles vs bad guys". They can have a ton of action in the new one and I think that's what everyone wants.

I think easy to see action is more important. When the action really got started it was difficult to tell which turtle was which and that's even with Bay's insistence that all the turtles have to look different to help even the stupidest person to tell them apart.

I don't think we'll get more action - at least not involving the turtles. The cgi characters cost too damn much.

5. Don’t Forget They’re Ninjas - This has pretty much never been represented in TMNT movies, except maybe the 1990 movie, and a little in the sequel.

It isn't it about time it was represented?

I actually thought it was admirable that they included some attempts at the turtles being stealthy but then quickly devalued when the started tossing around cargo containers.

Sadly I don't see a movie involving Rocksteady and Bebop having much of that. That wouldn't be too bad if we'd gotten some actual ninja stuff in this movie.

4. Bring Back Casey Jones - Yes please. Casey can be added almost like a 5th Turtle, he does not need his own story, he can just be there with them, fighting and interacting. He should not, and can not be the focus of the movie.

That's not an option really, is it?

I don't know why people expect the focus of the sequel will change to the titular characters when they just flat out can't afford that. People go one about the supposed draw backs of the the rubber suits but that's a huge one with the motion capture.

I wouldn't mind a back story for Casey taken from Tales of the TMNT and the '03 series but that's unlikely to happen.

2. No More Origin - YES. The best thing to compare to is The Dark Knight. They didn't refer to Batman Begins one time. It's a stand alone movie out of the trilogy. We know what happened to the Turtles, we do not need to keep talking about it. We need to see them save the city.

Yes but Batman Begins nailed the origin. The TMNT 2014 movie badly botched it.

I'm on the fence about this because I'd love for them to somehow fix the origin but I can't say I trust them to do it a good way. Even if the sequel is great it's still going to be an elephant in the room that the turtles learned ninjitsu from a book and have no connection to the guy they're fighting,

1. Find A Team That Actually Likes The Turtles - Well, I'm not going to say the people involved didn't like the turtles, Bay most likely was not a fan at all, but Leibesman and Brad Fuller talked a lot about being fans. I'm just not sure they're fans of the right things when it comes to TMNT. They really should hire a group of fans to run things past before approving the script, I don't see why movie studios don't do this in the first place. Especially with how "fanboys" criticize every single comic book movie that gets made.

Pretty much everyone involved that could believably be passed off as a fan fell over themselves to tell us in interviews what huge fans of the franchise they were however I'm not sure I believed any of them.

I understand that researching something called Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles may seem a ridiculous act but not only did they sign on for it so it's implied in their job description but if they were fans surely they wouldn't mind delving into it but all we got was them looking at still pictures.

I also think Leibesman tone at comic con kinda betrayed that he wasn't that interested - to be fair to him I think at that point he's given up trying to justify all the changes to a reluctant audience and just felt like shrugging his shoulders at the whole thing.

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Galactus

There are quite a few sequels that are better than the first movie. Sadly I can't think of a good sequel to a truly awful movie.

Aliens, Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan, Empire Strikes Back, Terminator 2: Judgement Day. Those are sequel that I remember being 10x better then the 1st films.

I'm sure there are more out there.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Galactus

It should really come as no surprise that others fell for it too. You don't have to look far on the net for defenders of the movie that don't know any better to say that fans shouldn't moan as it was true to the original comics books or the '03 series because that's what they've read.

Like the comments I'd seen defending the "alien" stuff by saying it was taken out of context. I assume because someone (director?) had claimed it was. And then I finally read that script the other day (darn that thread for being locked) and - holy hell, "out of context" my butt... clear now that anyone claiming that has never actually read it.

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

whoever wrote that article on kidzworld knows nothing about the Turtles History. I would just ignore it.

Of the writer, true. Though the scary part is what a generation of new fans might be led to see as being the Turtle's history. I hope any of them that remain fans as adults are then interested enough to do their homework. (But we live in an increasingly lazy world and that would take effort...)

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Bry

Ha! I was trying to copy/paste the whole article, which it turned out was too many characters for one post, and in the meantime Redeemer did it all anyway.

Lol same here. I tried to copy and paste the whole thing and use spoilers and of course it didn't play nice

And trust me it took me forever. If you noticed someone posted in between my post, trust me it was not a quick thing

[Autbot_Benz]

[/QUOTE=IndigoErth;1404216]Of the writer, true. Though the scary part is what a generation of new fans might be led to see as being the Turtle's history. I hope any of them that remain fans as adults are then interested enough to do their homework. (But we live in an increasingly lazy world and that would take effort...)[/QUOTE]

I joined the site just to comment and tell them the correct Origin of the turtles

[NinjaPug]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Aliens, Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan, Empire Strikes Back, Terminator 2: Judgement Day. Those are sequel that I remember being 10x better then the 1st films.

I'm sure there are more out there.

Are you kidding me? Are you calling Alien, Star Wars and Terminator terrible movies?

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Galactus

Pretty much everyone involved that could believably be passed off as a fan fell over themselves to tell us in interviews what huge fans of the franchise they were however I'm not sure I believed any of them.

Agree, I really feel that while maybe some are no doubt casual fans or were at one time in their lives, really think they emphasized it beyond actual levels of fanship.

Pretty sure there was one clip of Megan Fox, for example, when she's sitting there talking about the Turtles, being the intro to some clip or whatever that was, and recall her slipping and saying Raph was leader. Now... I get that slips happen and maybe it could be a little nitpicky to some, but look...if someone was as big of a fan as is being claimed and are still at the present time, that's first grade fan knowledge right there. Just one step past getting their name or mask color wrong. If it was ME (which it wouldn't be) I'd have immediately caught myself, messed up that take and have to/want to reshoot that. Just saying.

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

I joined the site just to comment and tell them the correct Origin of the turtles

Good, you tell 'em. Someone's gotta educate today's kids.