What would you do with a reboot, with a catch...

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

Originally Posted by TrickOrTreater

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke View Post
Yadda yadda yadda blah blah blah buncha bullsh*t buncha bullsh*t buncha bullsh*t

Well said.

I know one thing that sucks more than the new movie:
Your boring cry fests, and failed attempts at insults.

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

I know one thing that sucks more than the new movie:
Your boring cry fests, and failed attempts at insults.

Sweet burn, bro. Sweet burn.

[Xav]

Originally Posted by The Boston Ninja Turtle

this sounds more like what Terminator 3, Jurassic Park 3, Batman Returns and Batman and Robin were

movies with new team in the same franchise following the original movie

But all those movies had returning cast members. None of them had a totally new team.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

With this thread open again, I will just say this, with no offense to anyone; yes, you can make a new TMNT movie, with Baxter or Krang or the rat king as the villain, and not retell the origin story. Just like the 2007 movie say a few lines about their origin at the beginning and move on. There is no good reason to reestablish an origin older fans already know from mirage, 4kids, and the OT, and kids know from the nick cartoon. No. Good. Reason.

[plastroncafe]

Sure there is, it's called making a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie.
It's having respect for the origins of the franchise, and not just giving lip service to them in order to churn out a hack of a movie to turn a few bucks.

Having respect for the subject matter should be first and foremost in one's mind before undergoing an any artistic endeavor.

It's clear to me that the only thing that mattered in the making of the Platinum Dunes movie was making money.

[Warboss74]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

Guardians of the Galaxy is a Marvel product, not a Nickelodeon product. Tell me about the Nickelodeon movies that have killing.

Nickolodeon had zero problems selecting Platinum Dunes to make the film, and all they've ever done before TMNT was horror flicks. Nickolodeon certainly doesn't have issues with sex jokes, underage drinking, and other non family friendly topics. Nickolodeon being involved is a moot point anyways when the comparison is PG-13 comic book film to PG-13 comic book film.

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

Okay, I know this has been asked before, but I thought I'd toss it out there again with a little catch attached. Let's say you got to do your own TMNT reboot, and you get to set your own themes and tone for the film. What would you do? But unlike the last thread, there's a catch...

No retreading the original movie, and no adapting Mirage 1#. No flashbacks to Saki and Yoshi, no first meeting with April or Casey. Shredder can be the villain, but he's already at war with the turtles. You have to start with the tmnt already in place, and no 'cycle of vengeance' themes- you have to move the story ahead, not track over old ground. This doesn't have to be continuation of anything, though it can be if you wish.

Like others have pointed out this is a poor catch for a reboot. The turtle's rivalry with the Foot is integral to the entire mythos for most people and refusing to touch on the origins at all to jump into them fighting each other for years does little to make a viewer care for their rivalry. It doesn't mean that it has to be the first film in a rebooted film franchise. Elements should certainly be present, and Splinter should at least acknowledge more to the turtles origin if he doesn't explain it all in the film. Beyond that the turtles can go on any adventure you want them to.

You could structure the start of a turtles film franchise around the crazy Sci Fi stuff and still get into the rivalry and payoff in future films. Some alterations to my concept for the film would be Splinter tracking down leads to the whereabouts of his Master's killer is attacked by a monster in the sewers. When he doesn't return the young turtles venture out on their own against Splinters orders to track him down. This would lead to an eventual confrontation with the monster, Leatherhead. Now you could go different directions as to why Leatherhead attacked Splinter. I love Leatherhead struggle with his rage, and would certainly be the Leatherhead I would present. He can have completely succumbed to it and be feral therefore the final villain, or he can become an ally to find his family. (The Utroms) In the first case, Splinter learns to trust in his sons, so he tells them why he's training them. (Sets up the foundation for the confrontation in a future film) In the latter, they help him find the Utroms. (Maybe this reveals the alliance between the Shredder and Krang?) I'm really just spit balling ideas for the film and have no clear or coherent conclusion for the second option.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Warboss74

Nickolodeon had zero problems selecting Platinum Dunes to make the film, and all they've ever done before TMNT was horror flicks. Nickolodeon certainly doesn't have issues with sex jokes, underage drinking, and other non family friendly topics. Nickolodeon being involved is a moot point anyways when the comparison is PG-13 comic book film to PG-13 comic book film.


Like others have pointed out this is a poor catch for a reboot. The turtle's rivalry with the Foot is integral to the entire mythos for most people and refusing to touch on the origins at all to jump into them fighting each other for years does little to make a viewer care for their rivalry. It doesn't mean that it has to be the first film in a rebooted film franchise. Elements should certainly be present, and Splinter should at least acknowledge more to the turtles origin if he doesn't explain it all in the film. Beyond that the turtles can go on any adventure you want them to.

You could structure the start of a turtles film franchise around the crazy Sci Fi stuff and still get into the rivalry and payoff in future films. Some alterations to my concept for the film would be Splinter tracking down leads to the whereabouts of his Master's killer is attacked by a monster in the sewers. When he doesn't return the young turtles venture out on their own against Splinters orders to track him down. This would lead to an eventual confrontation with the monster, Leatherhead. Now you could go different directions as to why Leatherhead attacked Splinter. I love Leatherhead struggle with his rage, and would certainly be the Leatherhead I would present. He can have completely succumbed to it and be feral therefore the final villain, or he can become an ally to find his family. (The Utroms) In the first case, Splinter learns to trust in his sons, so he tells them why he's training them. (Sets up the foundation for the confrontation in a future film) In the latter, they help him find the Utroms. (Maybe this reveals the alliance between the Shredder and Krang?) I'm really just spit balling ideas for the film and have no clear or coherent conclusion for the second option.

WARBOSS, AT LEAST THAT WOULD BE A NEW STORY! Good job!

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Sure there is, it's called making a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie.
It's having respect for the origins of the franchise, and not just giving lip service to them in order to churn out a hack of a movie to turn a few bucks.

Having respect for the subject matter should be first and foremost in one's mind before undergoing an any artistic endeavor.

It's clear to me that the only thing that mattered in the making of the Platinum Dunes movie was making money.

I've never argued that Bay's flick wasn't a cash grab. I'm only saying you could start a new TMNT movie series without starting over with the origin again. If the 2007 movie had used a more familiar set of villains, or adapted a story from mirage or Archie or 2k3, I bet it would have been far better received. (not saying it didn't have it's own issues, though) Anew TMNT movie, even if it threw the bay universe out the window, does not need to be a mirage #1 retelling, nor does it need to remake the first film.

I'm not arguing for saving bay's film, I'm arguing for something NEW from turtle movies now!

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

Originally Posted by The Boston Ninja Turtle

this sounds more like what Terminator 3, Jurassic Park 3, Batman Returns and Batman and Robin were

movies with new team in the same franchise following the original movie


the term reboot wouldnt apply to this idea as youd still be tied to the previous attachment

Originally Posted by Xav

But all those movies had returning cast members. None of them had a totally new team.

Terminator 3 had only Arnold returning, new writer, new director, new production company.

I've never seen Jurassic Park 3, can't comment.

I think you meant Batman Forever, because Batman Returns was Tim Burton and Keaton returning.

Batman Forever was for the most part a reboot. They had an all new cast, the only roll over was Alfred and Commissioner Gordon. New director, writer etc... Even the city was drastically changed.

Batman & Robin is the sequel to Batman Forever, Batman was recast, but for the most part is a sequel.

All of those movies that did a soft reboot are beyond terrible. There is just no reason to rehash the origin of the turtles in anyway.

I can't stand fanboys who want the movies to be taken directly off the pages of their personal favorite comic or cartoon. That goes for any comic book franchise. Why is it ok for comic books to retell stories in different ways over and over, or a cartoon series tell their own origin, but when a movie is made it HAS to be exactly like *insert favorite origin story*?! Why can't the movie create it's own story? We got the origin we got, it didn't erase the origin you like. Can we please move on now?

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

you know what you get when you jump right in adding new characters and not telling the origin story


Next Mutation


and i have a guilty "love" of that series, but im not so blind i cant see its flaws

but lets be honest NM had no backbone..it relied on its audience knowing where the turtles came from..and yes at the time Turtle mania wasnt over yet..sure it was maybe not as a strong but people knew turtles.

Then you have the addition of all these new characters...Venus,Dragonlord..other new villains...that with a proper set up could have been amazing additions to the TMNT world

but thats the thing..you need to set up the world before you can add to it or it becomes a Cluster*Fudge* of its own existence


as warboss said..you dont have to jump right into it but its elements should be present

[Warboss74]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

WARBOSS, AT LEAST THAT WOULD BE A NEW STORY! Good job!

My point is the elements you want of your catch don't have to be thrown out when rebooting a film franchise. All I did was change out some details from the film synopsis I gave in another thread while keeping the core of the story the same. If you haven't seen my take, here's a quick rundown.
1. Opens with the death of Tang Shen and Hamato Yoshi
2. Splinter became their pet after the Exile to New York, so he doesn't know who the Foot or the Shredder are beyond the killers of his family.
3. That lack of knowledge drives the general plot without dealing with the conclusion of that rivalry.
4. The lead that breaks through is taking the events from The Passing, which foils a ninja assassination. The ninjas are a Foot ninjas.
5. Now knowing who they're looking for, their new ally Hattori helps track down further leads. This leads to the Purple Dragons. Through them they find the link to the Shredder and the Foot.
6. Splinter explains their mission, and they still have work to do. This closes out the film.

In the first option with Leatherhead I presented, the turtles can meet a human ally or two in their hunt for Splinter. It could be Casey Jones and/or Angel because their connections to the Purple Dragons and thus the Shredder would solve the arc of finding Yoshi and Shen ' s killer. (A fight with the PD in the middle could serve as a substitute for The Passing like Leatherhead in the second example) In the second example, the Utroms are the connection to finding the Shredder. Points 1-3 and number 6 (Slight changes to details) remain in both Leatherhead examples, but it breaks your catch to use them. The origin retelling also violates it because in either example because they have to talk about where they came from with their new allies.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

Originally Posted by Warboss74

My point is the elements you want of your catch don't have to be thrown out when rebooting a film franchise. All I did was change out some details from the film synopsis I gave in another thread while keeping the core of the story the same. If you haven't seen my take, here's a quick rundown.
1. Opens with the death of Tang Shen and Hamato Yoshi
2. Splinter became their pet after the Exile to New York, so he doesn't know who the Foot or the Shredder are beyond the killers of his family.
3. That lack of knowledge drives the general plot without dealing with the conclusion of that rivalry.
4. The lead that breaks through is taking the events from The Passing, which foils a ninja assassination. The ninjas are a Foot ninjas.
5. Now knowing who they're looking for, their new ally Hattori helps track down further leads. This leads to the Purple Dragons. Through them they find the link to the Shredder and the Foot.
6. Splinter explains their mission, and they still have work to do. This closes out the film.

In the first option with Leatherhead I presented, the turtles can meet a human ally or two in their hunt for Splinter. It could be Casey Jones and/or Angel because their connections to the Purple Dragons and thus the Shredder would solve the arc of finding Yoshi and Shen ' s killer. (A fight with the PD in the middle could serve as a substitute for The Passing like Leatherhead in the second example) In the second example, the Utroms are the connection to finding the Shredder. Points 1-3 and number 6 (Slight changes to details) remain in both Leatherhead examples, but it breaks your catch to use them. The origin retelling also violates it because in either example because they have to talk about where they came from with their new allies.

So this isn't a TMNT movie? It's a Splinter movie?

Also that plot is better to spread out in a tv show over a season, there is too much for a movie.

I don't get it when people complain about April being the main protagonist then want he movie to be all about Splinter and Shredder....

[Bry]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

So this isn't a TMNT movie? It's a Splinter movie?

Also that plot is better to spread out in a tv show over a season, there is too much for a movie.

I don't get it when people complain about April being the main protagonist then want he movie to be all about Splinter and Shredder....

The Saki/Yoshi backstory is the entire reason the Turtles are ninjas, and the entire reason they're connected to the Shredder at all. It's a key part of their motivation. Again, it's the foundation, and you build from there. But Splinter is the one who made them who they are, so even though he's not the main character, he should be extremely important to their story and help drive the plot. Right?

Nobody's saying they want "a Splinter movie" - they just want a movie that's actually about something and uses the strongest material we have.

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by Bry

The Saki/Yoshi backstory is the entire reason the Turtles are ninjas, and the entire reason they're connected to the Shredder at all. It's a key part of their motivation. Again, it's the foundation, and you build from there.

Nobody's saying they want "a Splinter movie" - they just want a movie that's actually about something and uses the strongest material we have.

Nah, much better for the movie to be entirely about Megan O'Fox and have the entire thing connect back to her and hinge on her.

That was truly the best course of action.

Truly.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

Originally Posted by Bry

The Saki/Yoshi backstory is the entire reason the Turtles are ninjas, and the entire reason they're connected to the Shredder at all. It's a key part of their motivation. Again, it's the foundation, and you build from there. But Splinter is the one who made them who they are, so even though he's not the main character, he should be extremely important to their story and help drive the plot. Right?

Nobody's saying they want "a Splinter movie" - they just want a movie that's actually about something and uses the strongest material we have.

I just want the Turtles saving the day and kicking ass. I do not care about April, or Splinter's history. The bottom line is the Turtles are crime fighters, I want to see them fight some crime. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, but I'm saying it's called The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and it should be about them all the way through. There is absolutely no necessity to have Splinter and Shredder have a past. The Joker and Batman never had a past, they just created their own hatred for each other. It's simple Batman does good, and Joker does bad...that creates conflict. Turtles fight for the people who can't fight, Shredder wants to rule the world and hurt people...There is the conflict.

[The Boston Ninja Turtle]

but splinter is the turtles history


thats like superman with no krypton
batmans parents still alive
mighty morphin power rangers with no zordon
Prime with no megatron
parker with no spider bite
banner with no radiation

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

There is absolutely no necessity to have Splinter and Shredder have a past.

...That's literally the entire reason the TMNT exist, dude. They learned martial arts to avenge their master, who learned martial arts to avenge his master. The crux of that, is Shredder.

Can you do a version without that? Well, yeah, but that's like a sandwich without bread. It just ain't right.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

I just want the Turtles saving the day and kicking ass. I do not care about April, or Splinter's history. The bottom line is the Turtles are crime fighters, I want to see them fight some crime.

...okay, except that's not a story. Characters with no backstory, no connections, and no internal conflict aren't even really characters.

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, but I'm saying it's called The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and it should be about them all the way through.

When has there ever been a good story about a character (or characters) without a supporting cast, or backstory, or personal motivation, or significant connections to other people with their own stories and motivations? Like, ever?

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

There is absolutely no necessity to have Splinter and Shredder have a past. The Joker and Batman never had a past, they just created their own hatred for each other. It's simple Batman does good, and Joker does bad...that creates conflict. Turtles fight for the people who can't fight, Shredder wants to rule the world and hurt people...There is the conflict.

Except Batman still has a backstory that completely informs who he is, what he does, and how he reacts to the events that occur in the story. "He's the good guy" makes for paper-thin, terrible characters. A movie needs to be more than that - otherwise it might as well be two hours of gameplay footage from a fighting game.

The kind of "story" you describe gives the audience no reason whatsoever to care about the characters or their struggle. Sorry, but that completely misunderstands what a story even is. You need more than that. You just do.

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by Bry

...okay, except that's not a story. Characters with no backstory, no connections, and no internal conflict aren't even really characters.



When has there ever been a good story about a character (or characters) without a supporting cast, or backstory, or personal motivation, or significant connections to other people with their own stories and motivations? Like, ever?



Except Batman still has a backstory that completely informs who he is, what he does, and how he reacts to the events that occur in the story. "He's the good guy" makes for paper-thin, terrible characters. A movie needs to be more than that - otherwise it might as well be two hours of gameplay footage from a fighting game.

The kind of "story" you describe gives the audience no reason whatsoever to care about the characters or their struggle. Sorry, but that completely misunderstands what a story even is. You need more than that. You just do.

"He good guy, he bad guy, they fight, good guy win, me happy."

[Jester]

Reading WarBoss' movie proposal made something POP in my mind. You know something that the 2k3 series did that just NOW dawned on me? They connected for probably the first time the more martial arts aspects of the TMNT and their feud with Shredder and the Sci-fi elements with the Utroms with the creation of Utrom Shredder. Yes, he was probably initially a cheat to make the decapitation in Return to New York pass censors, but it also kinda streamlined the whole origin.