Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep8: "Vision Quest"

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by neatoman

It was a pretty good episode, considering that some of the recent episodes created substitutes for characters that may or may not be under Nick's copyright, is it possible that the "Deer" was based on this thing?

Spoiler:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gHglFEKfal...1600/god02.jpg

But I also have to ask, how much do the writers actually work together and is there some kind of story editor on this show at all? Because Leo got over his leg pain last episode, the last damn episode. Not to mention Donatello getting worried about April bonding with Casey, kiss scene aside (and the beaver episode implied that scene might just have been a dream) he learned his lesson six episodes ago.

Personally, I felt that they were being realistic about it. He thought he was better, but every time he feels the slightest bit of discomfort, he focuses on it again, once again recreating the doubt it'll get better in his mind. This is a very realistic reaction to a bad injury, especially a traumatizing one. He had to focus. Mind over matter. So I commend the writers for this. His injury, to me anyway, wasn't completely healed. Like my situation. I had that breathing issue because of the clots in my lungs. Every time I feel the slightest discomfort or any shortness of breath, my mind jumps back to that situation and I then wonder if I'm actually better after all and then I focus and worry over it and have to keep telling myself I'm fine. I get a pain in my leg, I get paranoid and worried, but then have to remind myself that the doctor says I'm ok and that it's nothing. Personally, I think that's what Leo was doing along with some PTSD.

After the big quake/tsunami hit Japan, even though I had left about a month after it happened, I was still showing signs of PTSD. Even after I was back on US soil, I still had PTSD symptoms. Any type of strange movement, I'd slightly freak out. So yeah, personally, I think that Leo's mind was strong and causing him to feel more pain than he actually did. That was the point of the episode, for him to face it himself. The other times outside factors got in the way (Dream Beavers; April). This time, Leo decided for himself to get over this injury once and for all....so yeah, that's how I felt about it and why Leo kept going back to feeling pain.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by CaliperCat

I got the impression that Leo's not too fond of anything higher than what might be found in New York. He looked pretty freaked out when he found out he was on a bridge, surrounded by fog so thick that he couldn't see the ground.

Yeah, he did, didn't he? Not sure if the show will go there, but I personally feel that Leo is exhibiting some PTSD symptoms, but I wonder once they get back to NYC if it'll trigger anything to show that he does have a little bit of PTSD.

Raph had the best weapons, but I had to laugh at how much his mask looked like a really big mustache. Also, I didn't know he had a thing for fishnet stockings. I really enjoyed his pirate ship line as well. It displays his dry sense of humor. I get the impression that, if the other guys had been there, he wouldn't have made that joke, and that kind of serves to underline just how independent he prefers to be sometimes. Perhaps that's a trait that will help lead him to Shredder later on.

That's a really good observation, about how independent he is and yes, I also liked the pirate ship line. I love Raph's dry sense of humor!

I also feel like he didn't want to get too sentimental because he wanted the turtles to actually focus more on what he was saying than on the emotions behind it. Finding out that he was alive was probably a shock as it was, without getting mushy and causing them emotional distraction during their quests.

Yeah, more than likely.

I think Mikey matured a lot in this episode. He's never going to come off as mature as the other turtles, because that's just who Mikey is. I think he learned how to focus himself, though, and hopefully we'll see him utilize that in the future. I noticed how he was the first to master his required skill, and the first to defeat his spirit. It makes sense, because from a technical standpoint Mikey has the most raw talent of any of the turtles: He just doesn't focus well. Maybe, because he is so talented, he never had to. I know a few really, really smart people who have never had to really apply themselves, so they don't bother to for even difficult tasks because they assume that they'll get through it solely based on their talent. I wonder if Mikey is kind of the same way: He could get away with not having to focus as much as his brothers, because he's just that good, so he didn't get into the habit of actually focusing his mind.

IMO, Mikey is the most natural fighter. Look at the ep with Dr. Rockwell and how he avoided Splinter's hits without even focusing or trying. Same in Vengeance is Mine. When Mikey was sparring with Leo, he wasn't "focusing", but he still was getting hits on Leo and dodging easily before he used his injury to his advantage...and hit him with the water balloon. I guess the lesson for him is that it's okay to fight without the focus...sometimes, but not all of the time and that if he did use more focus, his combatant skill would improve greatly. I also found it interesting how Mikey mastered his trait and defeated his spirit first.

April didn't seem too thrilled when Casey grabbed her and crowed about being alone with her for three days. I feel like she would've flirted with him in the past, but she just looked plain fed up. She was kind of flirting with him at the end, though, but I hope now that the turtles are back, she'll kind of get away from that and mature a bit as well.

No, she didn't seem to like it, but it's interesting how different people interpret things. I don't see how "I'm going to hit the board this time and show you I can do it" = flirting. Felt more like friendly teasing to me, like how Donnie was teasing Casey earlier in the episode after April kicked him.

[ObiWanFan4life]

Did anyone else catch Raphael referencing The Goonies when he mentioned The Pirate Ship?

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by ObiWanFan4life

Did anyone else catch Raphael referencing The Goonies when he mentioned The Pirate Ship?

OH my god! How in the world could I have missed that and Sean Astin was Mikey and the main one in search of One-Eyed Willie's ship! And I'm supposed to be a Goonies fan!

[Bitsy83]

Well, this episode was well worth the wait! Loved the Miyasaki-inspired deer spirit (You all thought it too, admit it!), the new outfits looked awesome, loved the ref to the 90s movie AND the Goonies, and now we can FINALLY go back to New York and "crush some Kraang!"

One thing, though: A lot of people brought up the Tigerclaw vs. Donnie thing as being odd. To me, I think it's foreshadowing. When I first came up with the theory of Shredder targeting Donnie, I immediately pictured Donnie being hunted by Tigerclaw and eventually those two would have to face off.

Besides, their fight seemed a bit different from the others. Raph, Leo, and Mikey's fights all ended with their adversaries turning into a puff of smoke. Yet we just saw Tiger Claw get thrown into the abyss. I was expecting Donnie to throw him against the mountain and an avalanche would crush Tiger Claw, making him go "poof."

I'm probably looking WAY to much into this, but what if this is almost like a sign that Donnie's REAL fight with Tigerclaw won't end in one round? I'm not expecting Leo to take out Shredder in one round either, but it shows that he is able to defeat him. I just think that when they get to New York and if our "Target: Donnie" prediction comes true, then Tiger Claw will hunt Donnie and Donnie is going to have to remember this confrontation.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Bitsy83

Well, this episode was well worth the wait! Loved the Miyasaki-inspired deer spirit (You all thought it too, admit it!), the new outfits looked awesome, loved the ref to the 90s movie AND the Goonies, and now we can FINALLY go back to New York and "crush some Kraang!"

One thing, though: A lot of people brought up the Tigerclaw vs. Donnie thing as being odd. To me, I think it's foreshadowing. When I first came up with the theory of Shredder targeting Donnie, I immediately pictured Donnie being hunted by Tigerclaw and eventually those two would have to face off.

Besides, their fight seemed a bit different from the others. Raph, Leo, and Mikey's fights all ended with their adversaries turning into a puff of smoke. Yet we just saw Tiger Claw get thrown into the abyss. I was expecting Donnie to throw him against the mountain and an avalanche would crush Tiger Claw, making him go "poof."

I'm probably looking WAY to much into this, but what if this is almost like a sign that Donnie's REAL fight with Tigerclaw won't end in one round? I'm not expecting Leo to take out Shredder in one round either, but it shows that he is able to defeat him. I just think that when they get to New York and if our "Target: Donnie" prediction comes true, then Tiger Claw will hunt Donnie and Donnie is going to have to remember this confrontation.

Great theory. I'm hoping for that type of an arc. I'm sure most have speculated on that happening.

I figured that Donnie was paired up against Tigerclaw for about...four reasons. First, Leo had to face Shredder. Second, Tigerclaw is second in command...and in all honesty and I blame the OT for this, but I always viewed Donnie as second after Leo. Third, to show brain beats brawn. Fourth...Phil LaMar wasn't around to voice Stockman. ...but I like your theory and speculation more. Maybe it is foreshadowing. It would make sense that Shredder would use Tigerclaw to try and get Donnie.

[Ravenshell]

Originally Posted by ssjup81

I figured that Donnie was paired up against Tigerclaw for about...four reasons. First, Leo had to face Shredder. Second, Tigerclaw is second in command...and in all honesty and I blame the OT for this, but I always viewed Donnie as second after Leo. Third, to show brain beats brawn. Fourth...Phil LaMar wasn't around to voice Stockman. ...but I like your theory and speculation more. Maybe it is foreshadowing. It would make sense that Shredder would use Tigerclaw to try and get Donnie.

Stockman's not much of a challenge, brain- or brawn-wise.

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Donnie's Shaman mask was pretty cool. I liked it and it fit. Those types of masks do symbolize knowledge and wisdom...and he is the smart one and seriously, his looking down at Tigerclaw while wearing it...that looked kind of badass. lol

Look out, Casey, Donnie's copying your style now.

Oh, something I did dislike...I really wish it would've been two episodes as opposed to one. They could've done more with each turtle that way. Like maybe the first ep focuses on Leo and Mikey's spirit quests and the other one Donnie and Raph's or whatever. Just felt they could've gotten more out of it. Everything did feel as if it happened much too fast.

Originally Posted by Gunstar_Red

It was a good episode. Not as great as everyone is claiming. The main problem I have with this episode was it should have been 4-5 episodes. It should have been single character episodes exploring their growth as ninjas. Instead, we got rushed "summaries" with action sequences. I also found the camp fire scene (although I'm glad they added it and it was a cute homage) rather flat.

I agree, in that it felt rather rushed and overly-compact. I wish they'd had more time for a more emotional campfire scene. And I, too, would have liked to have seen the personal journey of each turtle, but let's face it, if they did that, people would be kvetching that they were tired after the first two and whining about getting back to New York already. They could have spread it over two eps, though, and that would have satisfied people.

Glad someone else saw the Sean Astin/Goonies connection.

Also, on the "nobody gets emotional but Mikey" complaint, what, [I]nobody[I] saw Raph getting choked up?

Someone mentioned the training montage music sounding familiar... it bears a strong likeness to "Lord of the Dance" mixed with some Revolutionary War piccolo cadence... wish I could find a link to the one I'm thinking of...

[jenna]

Now we're talking! What a wonderful episode. I love it when they explore the spiritual / inner-strength stuff. Shame it ended, really. It could have done with being a two-parter so that it could have explored the arc of each turtle's journey more.

My only criticism is that inevitably there will be a lack of perpetuity to the states each turtle achieved, with maybe Leo being the exception. I don't for a minute believe that Mikey will now be focused, or that Donnie will become less-reliant on his mind (he didn't seem to learn the lesson to any great length after Monkey Brains in Season 1) and I definitely don't think that Raphael has over-come his anger issues. Maybe that's because Leo's journey carried the most meaning because of what he'd been through, and the episode felt very Leo-centric. I'd still like to see the others facing something far more destructive in their emotional development.

[billbot85]

Incredible episode! I loved the reference to the 1990 film with Splinter appearing at the campfire, and how each turtle was overcoming their own weaknesses. The fight scenes with the foot clan and Shredder were excellent. The outfits they had were pretty cool, too, and I can see why they included those in order to sell more action figures, lol.

The end was awesome, too. Glad to see the turtles are finally ready to go back!

[Amaranthus]

Originally Posted by jenna

Now we're talking! What a wonderful episode. I love it when they explore the spiritual / inner-strength stuff. Shame it ended, really. It could have done with being a two-parter so that it could have explored the arc of each turtle's journey more.

My only criticism is that inevitably there will be a lack of perpetuity to the states each turtle achieved, with maybe Leo being the exception. I don't for a minute believe that Mikey will now be focused, or that Donnie will become less-reliant on his mind (he didn't seem to learn the lesson to any great length after Monkey Brains in Season 1) and I definitely don't think that Raphael has over-come his anger issues. Maybe that's because Leo's journey carried the most meaning because of what he'd been through, and the episode felt very Leo-centric. I'd still like to see the others facing something far more destructive in their emotional development.

That's the problem with this show.
Whenever a character learns something in one episode. Next episode, it's gone.

[TrickOrTreater]

Fantastic from beginning to end. Can't wait for the next one.

[ShelleyQuick]

This episode was everything I expected it to be, I loved it. I think(hope) the reason why Master Splinter didn't get too emotional was because he wanted his boys to focus on what was needed to be done. I'm thinking(hoping) when they finally find Splinter it'll be emotional mess. It was neat seeing the turtles wearing different gear. My opinion about Donnie's mask(seems to be the unpopular one) was that it actually nothing to with Casey what so ever. Donnie's mask was a stone shaman mask to represent who he is and help him on his journey. I think Casey mostly wears his hockey mask to look cool. Oh and one more thing, that little firefly thing that flew in front of Mikey and Mikey's reaction to it, was adorable, it reminded me of a little kitten.

[matteso586]

Does that deer almost remind you of an episode of Adventure Time?

And don't you find it strange that Splinter somehow knows when to temporary leave his body?

[Fang Wolf]

I think this Episode is the best so far of all current Episodes I have seen in season 3.
- I enjoy it to -

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Powder

Those are just shadows from a light source beneath his mask.

Nope. If you look closely, you can definitely see that Leo's eyes are wet. He's about to cry.

Originally Posted by Ravenshell

Glad someone else saw the Sean Astin/Goonies connection.

Also, on the "nobody gets emotional but Mikey" complaint, what, [I]nobody[I] saw Raph getting choked up?

Someone mentioned the training montage music sounding familiar... it bears a strong likeness to "Lord of the Dance" mixed with some Revolutionary War piccolo cadence... wish I could find a link to the one I'm thinking of...

Can't believe I didn't catch that Goonies reference- and I was looking for it after reading the comments here!

Ditto on Raph, and Leo, too. They were all trying not to cry. (Though you can't see Donnie's face, I'm guessing he was, too.)

Hmmm, you might be right about that music- it "did" sound kind of like Lord of the Dance.

[FlawedCoil82]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I won't nitpick everything, but my main beef was with the campfire scene with Splinter. His speech in the first movie has moved me to tears several times, but here he shows up and basically says "you're an asshole, you're a retard, you're a nerd and you're a big pussy. Now go dress up and play make believe in the woods. Also I'm not dead".

Haha, yea pretty much.

However, this was the first episode from season three that didn't make me groan in misery. I do think they could have cut out several of the complete crap episodes and expanded more on this one by giving each turtle an episode for exploring their own "spiritual journey". I said "about %?*!#¥$ time" outloud when Leo said they were going back to New York. If this episode would have sucked also, then I was gonna give this show 2 more episodes to try and redeem itself before I gave up completely and canceled the series off my DVR. Hope is renewed. But the remainder of season three will need to be incredible in order to fully redeem itself.

[victory_angel]

Andre the Black Nerd said in his review that Leo was telling Donnie to let April go because she doesn't like him more then just a friend. But I didn't see it that way though I can see where he would get that impression.

I saw it more along the lines of that one episode of Avatar the Last Airbender where Aang was learning how to open his chakra so he can access and control the avatar state. The last chakra he had to open he had to let go of his earthly attachments and he refused to do it because it meant that he would lose his attachments to Katara. And it's only when he realized he had no choice but to use the avatar state he finally decides to let go of his attachment to Katara.

So Leo was telling Donnie to let go of April because he needed to leave his fears and earthly attachments behind. And that was also likely why he didn't allow April to join them on the Spirit Quest, because Donnie would be too distracted by her to really achieve what he needed to learn. And he just used the pillow excuse of the "Only real ninja are going on this quest." rather then saying "Sorry April, but you will be a distraction."

[MrTMNT2012]

The way Mikey finished off Rahzar was F##KING BRUTAL! He slit his throat in the most badass way possible.

[ernesth100]

Okay the turtles have so far been to.
-The Forest/Farm
-Kraang Dimension
-New York

Now there's just 1 more place they have to go before the series ends. Even if only for a single episode...Japan. They...they just have to.

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by ernesth100

Okay the turtles have so far been to.
-The Forest/Farm
-Kraang Dimension
-New York

Now there's just 1 more place they have to go before the series ends. Even if only for a single episode...Japan. They...they just have to.

I get the feeling the Renet episode will have them going back to Feudal Japan at some point.