The episode idea thread (Turtle Torture Edition)

[Tarris Vaal]

However since the Spirit Quest is going to be one episode rather then focusing on each of the turtles individually. There wouldn't be as much focus as their probably could have been.

I'm really torn over whether that is a bad thing or not. Normally I would have loved to have had a focused set of episodes (1 per turtle) for the vision quest, or even 2 per episode for a two parter, but it just seems that Northampton has outstayed its welcome by this point.

Perhaps there is a later event that triggers something that causes Donnie to have a break down, because we all know what happens when you bottle things up...eventually it will explode.

That could be fun Would it work well with the other turtles as well? Even Mikey possibly?



On the subject of Mikey, I recall reading somewhere on the forum that Renet was more or less confirmed to be making an appearance at some point and slated as a 'love interest' for Mikey (please correct me if I'm wrong here)

Either way, it occured to me that it would be a good opportunity for a major foreshadowing episode in a similar vein to 'Same as it never was';
Lets say that Renet's appearance is due to her coming back to warn Mikey of what is coming - she uses her powers to grant him a vision of the future. He wakes up to find himself in what he presumes is a few years ahead. He finds the lair with Leo blinded, Raph missing, Casey much grimmer, Donatello an emotionally broken shadow, and himself and April presumed dead.
He finds out that something happened to cause Raph to turn dark and join with the Foot. When that happened, Mikey was mortally wounded trying to save him, April died defending Donatello (something he has never forgiven himself for and for which Casey has never forgiven him over). They managed to escape but Leo was blinded in the process.
As Mikey discovers this, he gets some impression of what caused Raph to turn (maybe with Donatello's help). There should also be a visual cue, like Mikey noticing that the photo frame of Donnie and April on the swing is cracked and broken. But before he can confirm what happened Raph attacks the new lair. Mikey tries to stop him, and rather than Raph being happy to see him we get something like;
'Didn't I kill you once already?'
Mikey is understandably shocked and shaken as the lair is overwhelmed. Donatello forces Mikey back into the past, shouting what Mikey has to do (though barely audible over the noise of battle).
Mikey wakes up in the present, shocked by all he has seen and desperately trying to remember what he had to do to stop it. As he panics, he knocks over the photoframe and cracks it.

I dunno, it may be that this runs cooler in my head than it would on the show

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

I'm really torn over whether that is a bad thing or not. Normally I would have loved to have had a focused set of episodes (1 per turtle) for the vision quest, or even 2 per episode for a two parter, but it just seems that Northampton has outstayed its welcome by this point.



That could be fun Would it work well with the other turtles as well? Even Mikey possibly?



On the subject of Mikey, I recall reading somewhere on the forum that Renet was more or less confirmed to be making an appearance at some point and slated as a 'love interest' for Mikey (please correct me if I'm wrong here)

Either way, it occured to me that it would be a good opportunity for a major foreshadowing episode in a similar vein to 'Same as it never was';
Lets say that Renet's appearance is due to her coming back to warn Mikey of what is coming - she uses her powers to grant him a vision of the future. He wakes up to find himself in what he presumes is a few years ahead. He finds the lair with Leo blinded, Raph missing, Casey much grimmer, Donatello an emotionally broken shadow, and himself and April presumed dead.
He finds out that something happened to cause Raph to turn dark and join with the Foot. When that happened, Mikey was mortally wounded trying to save him, April died defending Donatello (something he has never forgiven himself for and for which Casey has never forgiven him over). They managed to escape but Leo was blinded in the process.
As Mikey discovers this, he gets some impression of what caused Raph to turn (maybe with Donatello's help). There should also be a visual cue, like Mikey noticing that the photo frame of Donnie and April on the swing is cracked and broken. But before he can confirm what happened Raph attacks the new lair. Mikey tries to stop him, and rather than Raph being happy to see him we get something like;
'Didn't I kill you once already?'
Mikey is understandably shocked and shaken as the lair is overwhelmed. Donatello forces Mikey back into the past, shouting what Mikey has to do (though barely audible over the noise of battle).
Mikey wakes up in the present, shocked by all he has seen and desperately trying to remember what he had to do to stop it. As he panics, he knocks over the photoframe and cracks it.

I dunno, it may be that this runs cooler in my head than it would on the show

Sounds like a good setup. I always prefer Mikey to be the one that travels into the future since it parallels how the future of mirage tmnt progress.

******

People theorize that April might have a dark phoenix arc but what if instead the group managed to destroy Kraang Prime but some how it made April psychic powers go away because the kraang are a hive mind race and all of their mental enegry is derived from Kraang Prime?

[JTH]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

People theorize that April might have a dark phoenix arc but what if instead the group managed to destroy Kraang Prime but some how it made April psychic powers go away because the kraang are a hive mind race and all of their mental energy is derived from Kraang Prime?

I've been of the opinion that if she turns out to be a Neutrino, they can have a cop out to her DNA simply because Neutrinos are just a different known species of Kraang. Because based on what other things in Dimension X are named, they all seem to be named after The Kraang or Kraang predominant.

Just like we all look different but we're all still human on Earth, Dimension X species all look different but are all still Kraang.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

That could be fun Would it work well with the other turtles as well? Even Mikey possibly?

Or Leo, they have a nod to something like that episode of teen titans where Star Fire went into the future. And since Ciro was involved with Teen Titans, that isn't to far-fetched in happening.

Renet accidentally sends Leo 10 years into the future. He seeks out his family and finds an older version of Splinter with Mikey and April. They inform him that Casey is dead, while Donnie disappeared during a mission over a year ago...they fear the worst.

When Leo asks about Mikey, April, and Splinter about Raph. Both Mikey and April look angry and tells Leo that they lost him along time ago. Splinter looks saddened at this.

Leo, Mikey, and April scope out the Shredders lair and see what appears to be a mutant dressed in foot soldier garb. Leo asks who he is, but Mikey ignores the question. He just says that mutant is bad news. Just then two other mutants (older Bebop and Rocksteady) bring in heavily wounded, severely emaciated, and blind Donatello. Both April and Mikey are surprised to see Donnie still alive, and Leo is horrified by what condition his brother is in.

Shredder demands to know if he is going to make Retromutagen or if he is going to continue to make things difficult. Donnie glares at the mutant in black angrily and says he has no intention of helping fiends and traitors.

The mutant in black scoffs and says that he can quit resisting because he doesn't have anything to gain by it. Donnie then angrily says "At least I didn't sell my soul like you did, Raph."

Leo is shocked by this, April says that Raph took Leo's disappearance rather hard and one day he blew up at everyone and stormed out and teamed up with the Foot Clan.

[aliena]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

Thats a really interesting idea JTH Though Donnie does hold his own against Raph now and again (operation breakout season1 for instance). It needn't be quite such a guilt ridden thing, but it would be interesting to find out what caused the chip in Raph's shell

I notice almost all these ideas revolve around Donnie to a large degree. What do you guys think would work well with the others?

I was trying to think how Leo might act if he is forced to defend Raph or one of the others from a berserk Karai - Imagine them finding her, Raph being Raph charges in and Karai enters a berserk state and threatens to kill him. Leo steps in to stop her, but is forced to nearly cut her down (perhaps critically wound? Remove an arm maybe? - I could imagine them giving her a krang droid arm to replace it later on. Anyway..)

He'd be guilt ridden from harming her, not only because of his own feelings for her but because of who she is. At the same time Raph might want to be grateful for the help but Leo is likely to snap at him because of the guilt he's suffering. Raph is likely to take that badly and it puts another wedge between him and the others.


Raph is relatively easy to find stories for as his personality naturally puts him in a lot of conflict - though a gentler emotional connection (like finding out he actually, kind of likes Karai/April/Irma/insert name here) would be a bit different to what we've had so far.

I have to admit I really struggle to think of what I'd like to see done with Mikey. Evil Mikey (ala the Behind the Darkness fan comics) is interesting, but I wonder what else you could do with him.

Boy, this is tough. I had this vague idea of Raph becoming an artist or a sculptor and April shows his work and he becomes famous over it, possibly a comic book that gains a fanbase. For some reason, they seem to always show Raph doing some kind of Art form in each incarnation. Maybe he's got an untapped potential there.

I can't really think of anything else to do with Raph, except give him a love interest or have him move out.

I read a fantastic fanfic where Raph moves out after some people he tried to protect were killed. He gets completely unhinged and goes after his brothers wanting to fight with Leo the most so he can accomplish something fairly shocking.

As for Mikey, I got nothing other than the going evil idea. Maybe he finds an abandoned toddler and brings it home? Or he makes a secret friend that he sneaks out to hang out with? Those are horrible ideas. I'm glad I don't have to write the episodes.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by JTH

I've been of the opinion that if she turns out to be a Neutrino, they can have a cop out to her DNA simply because Neutrinos are just a different known species of Kraang. Because based on what other things in Dimension X are named, they all seem to be named after The Kraang or Kraang predominant.

Just like we all look different but we're all still human on Earth, Dimension X species all look different but are all still Kraang.

That might be the reason why kraang can completely mutate 100% of the creatures in their dimension into a extant duplicate of whatever thing that originate from dimension X.

I use to think that the way that mutation works is that the mutagen pulls out share dna but then Ice cream kitty would have mutated into a cow cat with strawberries growing out of it's back so maybe it's changing creatures at a molecular level.

I also notice mutant always become bigger, never smaller. Even turtles themselves had mutated into a slightly bigger size and proportionally too since Splinter got only slightly bigger as well.

This means that like a loaf of bread baking in the oven, energy increase mass of the creature. Mutations are exothermic reactions.

The creature that doesn't follow this rule is Ice cream kitty and possible Karai but their mutations were not typically like the rest. Before Ice Cream Kitty got mutated, ice cream got drip into the mutagen and had exothermic reaction, releasing energy . Situation was similar for Karai.
It also possible that energy builds over time inside contain mutagen since the mutagen that was inside the kraang ship for 15 odd years had turn frogs into people sized mutants while the mutagen had mutated the turtles had only made them just a little bit bigger.



Another way that the two are connected is that both substances were already in the mutagen which shows anything that goes in the mutagen, doesn't matter on what last thing they had touch, they will turn into that likeness of the substance. No matter what.

This might explain Timothy's mutation. Shredder doesn't strike me as someone who is careful with mutagen, in fact, no one on this show is. It would not surprise me that open mutagen was kept in poor un sanitized conditions and the smallest one celled organism got in the mutagen.

So there two or at least one establish rules for mutagen.

[Tarris Vaal]

That is almost a thread in itself! - forcing science into Mutagen!

It would be nice to get some better ideas of how it is supposed to work, particularly if Retromutagen becomes a major plot device in the future.


Its an interesting point that we see very little of other hobbies among some of the Turtles - particularly Raph. Since he lost Spike as a pet it might be nice for him to have something else he relax with beyond training. It would make for a nice filler ep if Mikey or Donnie were to discover he has a really gentle hobby (knitting?) that he is ashamed of and tries to keep quiet from the others.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

That is almost a thread in itself! - forcing science into Mutagen!

It would be nice to get some better ideas of how it is supposed to work, particularly if Retromutagen becomes a major plot device in the future.


Its an interesting point that we see very little of other hobbies among some of the Turtles - particularly Raph. Since he lost Spike as a pet it might be nice for him to have something else he relax with beyond training. It would make for a nice filler ep if Mikey or Donnie were to discover he has a really gentle hobby (knitting?) that he is ashamed of and tries to keep quiet from the others.

If mutagen was made of pixie dust then I wouldn't even bother speculating but once you put science on the table, it's open season for us theorist nuts.




Anyway

I always figure that Raph would be the type of guy that loves sports since he likes competing.

[CaliperCat]

I doubt this qualifies as a traumatic idea (unless you count switching minds with a genius chicken as a torturous experience), but it popped into my head at work today. so I may as well share it.

Donnie is in the midst of re-configuring his mind-reading device, and leaves it alone for a time, perhaps to train. Since Mikey's always hanging around, I can see him popping into the barn (or perhaps he was hiding in there all along), and, deciding that Donnie's new device looks cool, puts it on and starts to mess with it, thinking it's not functional. Dr. Cluckingsworth, who had been hanging out in the barn the entire time, is standing on the device, or on some uncompleted part of it. While playing with the switches, and in general being a lovable bit of a goof ("This tiara is stylish, huh Dr. Cluckingsworth?") accidentally triggers the device, which effects both him and the genius chicken. This causes them to switch minds. In shock from the switch, "Mikey" simply plops down on the barn floor, while "Dr. Cluckingsworth" staggers into the house.

Donnie returns to the barn, and sees "Mikey" sitting there, looking sort of dazed. He asks if he's been messing with his stuff, then tells him that he really shouldn't, because it's dangerous. "Mikey" just looks at him and makes a clucking sound, causing Donnie to stare, then shake his head.

Over time, the other turtles notice some changes. "Dr. Cluckingsworth" spends all her time in the house, watching Mikey's barbarian show (and pecking anyone who tries to touch the remote), eating massive amounts of pizza, clucking non-stop, and performing backflips. I think it'd be funny if someone (maybe Raph) said something about Mikey that could be construed as insulting- maybe that Mikey wasn't really a ninja anymore, since he spent all his time in the barn tinkering with Donnie's things, and can't even hold his 'chucks correctly. This causes "Dr. Cluckingsworth" to fly into a rage, and Raph finds himself with a face full of chicken who, somehow, can perform ninja moves.

Meanwhile, "Mikey" spends all his time in the barn working on science projects. He's finally learned how to control his body's voice, but when he talks, it's a bunch of science babble. This causes Donnie to say something along the lines of, "Wait... Is Mikey actually SMART? Like, smart smart?! He also notices that Dr. Cluckingsworth must have, "Spent too much time around Mikey." Needless to say, everyone is really weirded out, especially when ICK sees "Mikey" and starts attacking and biting him.

I didn't get as far as the rest of the gang figuring out what happened and switching them back, but I assume it would happen at some point. It's possible that finding themselves in bodies that are unfamiliar, and being expected to fill roles that aren't truly "them," causes the two a lot of building stress, and they end up becoming really moody and unhappy for a while. There could also be some resentment on Mikey's end after they're switched back, because he's heard what everyone else says when he's not around, and it actually kind of gets under his skin.

[victory_angel]

Since Donnie had successfully created Retromutagen, it is a safe bet that it in essence does paint a big red target on his shell and a there is a handful of groups who will find that of interest.

Shredder is an obvious one because he wants to cure Karai. At this time Stockmen is the only member of the Foot who actually knows Donnie is able to create Retromutagen. Rahzar only knows one of the Turtles can create Retromutagen, and he knows them well enough to make a few guesses as to who it is.

This knowledge will in time become known to the rest of the Foot Clan particularly Shredder. However this version of the Shredder isn't really a sadistic capture and torture type. He's sadistic and likes to torment his enemies but he also deals death quickly and painfully. But he had also felt that Leonardo was beneath him in terms of a worthy kill. So odds are he is just going to bide his time until Donnie has retromutagen handy and then send his grunts out to retrieve it.

What I see happening is that Donnie has created another batch of retromutagen with the intention of finding and curing Karai. However the Foot were waiting for this moment, there is a battle over the retromutagen until Donnie is caught and Tiger Claw or even the Shredder himself tells the other Turtles to stand down and hand over the Retromutagen or else Donnie would be thrown from the top of the building (or bridge into the bay).

Leo knows there isn't a real choice so he tosses over the Retromutagen. Shredder looks at the vile before looking at his goons. The mutants holding Donnie set him down like they are going to let him go as promised, before Tiger Claw pushes Donnie of the edge sending him plummeting.

[Tarris Vaal]

Thus proving Tigerclaw and Tk12 Shredder are among the most impressive villains in TV history

Is Shredder or any of his minions aware of Donnie's feelings for April? I know Rat king is but I wasn't sure of the others. Reason being, I can imagine them using April to lure Donnie in - capturing her and contacting Donnie secretly to force him to create a batch and deliver it without telling the others on pain of killing her - he is then captured when he agrees to this and they inevitably betray him. Being the good guys I'd expect the others to find out anyway and follow (something Tigerclaw/Shredder would anticipate).
They then present a Spiderman esque choice for the others to save Donatello or April (as both are simultaneously thrown), and buying time for Shredder to get away with the retromutagen.
Donatello could then have the reason to force the others to save April over himself - perhaps forcing April to use her own powers (and making Shredder aware of them) or suffering serious lasting injury for Donnie.

On that note, this could also be tied into a plot involving Neutrinos and Bishop, with Bishop engineering this whole thing quietly behind the scenes (even manipulating Shredder, knowing he would act this way), just to get April to utilise her powers to such an extent and prove she is worth adding to 'the program'.

Now I really am overthinking this....


In regards the mind swap, we did have the episode before with Raph swapping minds with a Kraang, as well as Casey/April briefly. Maybe something where Dr Cluckingsworth MD finds a way to use Mikey to communicate through rather than an outright body swap? Could be played for laughs well, and would give Dr C an actual voice - depending on whether he is needed later (perhaps in the event of maintaining an 'expert' in the team if Donnie is taken out of action).

[CaliperCat]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

In regards the mind swap, we did have the episode before with Raph swapping minds with a Kraang, as well as Casey/April briefly. Maybe something where Dr Cluckingsworth MD finds a way to use Mikey to communicate through rather than an outright body swap? Could be played for laughs well, and would give Dr C an actual voice - depending on whether he is needed later (perhaps in the event of maintaining an 'expert' in the team if Donnie is taken out of action).

Argh, how could I forget about the Kraang episode? It's one of my favorites. But I like the idea of Dr. Cluckingsworth using Mikey as a microphone! It'd be pretty hilarious to see Mikey spewing a river of science babble while everyone else gaped like fish. Mikey's always had a way with animals, so this actually seems pretty plausible to me.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

Thus proving Tigerclaw and Tk12 Shredder are among the most impressive villains in TV history

They then present a Spiderman esque choice for the others to save Donatello or April (as both are simultaneously thrown), and buying time for Shredder to get away with the retromutagen.
Donatello could then have the reason to force the others to save April over himself - perhaps forcing April to use her own powers (and making Shredder aware of them) or suffering serious lasting injury for Donnie.

On that note, this could also be tied into a plot involving Neutrinos and Bishop, with Bishop engineering this whole thing quietly behind the scenes (even manipulating Shredder, knowing he would act this way), just to get April to utilise her powers to such an extent and prove she is worth adding to 'the program'.

Now I really am overthinking this....

That is actually very creative. Perhaps if Donnie is dropped of the side of a building....actually being tossed off a building is to cliche make it the Manhattan Bridge...yes that would use a new background set but oh well.

Perhaps if Donnie is pushed off one of the towers into the bay below April would suddenly use her powers so that Donatello isn't so much a plunge as much as it is gently drifting downward. Tiger Claw and Shredder, take note of this and the whole thing also catches Bishops attention.

Another option is that April is captured by Tiger Claw as he is interested in killing them as well as the Turtles. He threatens to toss her if he doesn't get the Retromutagen.

Donnie is torn between restoring Karai and saving April. Casey then gets frustrated he grabs the Retromutagen from Donnie and tosses it to Tiger Claw before demanding he let April go. Tiger claw smirks the the Foot Bots on Tiger Claws command sends April falling to the bay below.

Donnie jumps after her catches her and uses his grappling hook gun to stop their decent. So when they are about half way down and about to get back up to the bridge landing they see Shredder standing near their grappling hook cable before he slices it. Sending the two of them falling into the water below.

He's about to turn and walk away when he notices a glow in the water he pauses and sees April has uses her powers to created a protective bubble around Donatello and herself. The two of them rise to the nearest landing and then when they land they immediately collapse into a soaked freezing cold heap.

When April wakes up she is in the lair with Splinter watching over her. Her first concern is about Donatello. Raphael appears in the room and says Donnie hasn't regained consciousness as of yet, but they are keeping him warm and hopes he recovers soon.

April insists on seeing him goes over to where Leo and Mikey are gathered. Casey in the mean time comes up and says he really screwed up this time. And elsewhere an EPF Soldier says "We need to report this to Bishop."



Another situation is that Donnie is some how separated from his brothers and companions while he they are are in battle. The others don't realizes because they are too busy dealing with Shredder's mutants to realize that what is actually going on. Shredder or Tiger Claw then grabs the retromutagen from Donnie before seriously wounding him and walking off. The others regroup when the Foot bots retreat April then notices Donnie isn't with them. They all realize shes right, Mikey and Casey call for Donnie and receive no answer. Leo tells everyone to split up an look. Raph comes across the spot where Donatello has been left for dead.

[victory_angel]

There are some substances that have violent reactions when in contact with their opposite. Such as Antimatter coming in contact with matter.

So maybe in a bit of cruel irony, retromutagen reacts violently to mutagen. And since the Mutagen Man is purely mutagen, Donnie realizes he can't use it on Timothy.

Unfortunately during a fight to try and restore April's father they get attacked by Mutagen Man who wants to destroy Donnie for betraying him. He notices the Retromutagen vile and thinking it to be a new form of mutagen picks it up to eat it.

Donnie tries to warn him that isn't what he thinks it is, but MM doesn't listen. And when the two substances combine they react and Donnie can only watch helplessly as Mutagen man is destroyed.

Everyone is worried about how Donnie is taking all this and Leo comments that he hasn't seen Donnie this distressed before and he doesn't know what should be done to help him.

[Tarris Vaal]

I do like the irony

That does sound something more like what may occur - that ultimately Timothy's destruction is his own fault than Donnie's failure to save him. I liked Pulverizer personally, so I'd be sad to see him go rather than be potentially healed, but scenarios like this definitely work.

That said, would Donnie take it that hard? If it was ultimately Timothy's fault he ate the vial, rather than Donnie being forced to use it on him as a weapon then it gives Donnie a way to justify what happened. He may feel depressed, but I dont know if it would break him so long as the others were able to offer some support - imagine Mikey saying 'it wasn't your fault bro.' I bet the first words out of Donnie's mouth would be a resigned sigh followed by 'yeah, you're probably right.'

[JTH]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

There are some substances that have violent reactions when in contact with their opposite. Such as Antimatter coming in contact with matter.

So maybe in a bit of cruel irony, retromutagen reacts violently to mutagen. And since the Mutagen Man is purely mutagen, Donnie realizes he can't use it on Timothy.

Unfortunately during a fight to try and restore April's father they get attacked by Mutagen Man who wants to destroy Donnie for betraying him. He notices the Retromutagen vile and thinking it to be a new form of mutagen picks it up to eat it.

Donnie tries to warn him that isn't what he thinks it is, but MM doesn't listen. And when the two substances combine they react and Donnie can only watch helplessly as Mutagen man is destroyed.

Everyone is worried about how Donnie is taking all this and Leo comments that he hasn't seen Donnie this distressed before and he doesn't know what should be done to help him.

You've been reading my Mutagen Man story haven't ya.

[Bitsy83]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

Another situation is that Donnie is some how separated from his brothers and companions while he they are are in battle. The others don't realizes because they are too busy dealing with Shredder's mutants to realize that what is actually going on. Shredder or Tiger Claw then grabs the retromutagen from Donnie before seriously wounding him and walking off. The others regroup when the Foot bots retreat April then notices Donnie isn't with them. They all realize shes right, Mikey and Casey call for Donnie and receive no answer. Leo tells everyone to split up an look. Raph comes across the spot where Donatello has been left for dead.

I watched the "Return to New York" promo again and there were some moments were it looked like Donnie was by himself. I think at one point facing the Kraang and one where he was hiding while being shot at. What if the Kraang/Foot lure Donnie into a trap and capture him, then when the Turtles, Casey, and April come to save him, Tiger Claw opens a portal and sends them into it (Possible to Dimension X) while Donnie watches on helpless?

I don't have any screenshots of what I'm talking about, but if someone could make them if you know what I'm talking about.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Tarris Vaal

I do like the irony

That does sound something more like what may occur - that ultimately Timothy's destruction is his own fault than Donnie's failure to save him. I liked Pulverizer personally, so I'd be sad to see him go rather than be potentially healed, but scenarios like this definitely work.

That said, would Donnie take it that hard? If it was ultimately Timothy's fault he ate the vial, rather than Donnie being forced to use it on him as a weapon then it gives Donnie a way to justify what happened. He may feel depressed, but I dont know if it would break him so long as the others were able to offer some support - imagine Mikey saying 'it wasn't your fault bro.' I bet the first words out of Donnie's mouth would be a resigned sigh followed by 'yeah, you're probably right.'

Well Donnie isn't really at fault for what happened to Leo and the lair and all that, but he still blames himself anyway.

In the Pulverizer Donnie is warned by Splinter that by training him at all he is responsible for him. And that included anything the Pulverizer does with his training and anything that happens too him as a result.

So yes even though his mutation is the Pulverizer's doing, Donnie is still responsible. And in Mutagen Man Unleashed, Donnie didn't want to have to do what he did to defeat Timothy, and he even tries to warn Timothy not to drink the mutagen he had tampered with.

So even if Timothy did eat the retromutagen on his own, Donnie would be upset because he seems to have a "No good deed goes unpunished" cycle. Because a number of the things he does even the things done with the best of intentions have a way of coming back and slapping him in the face.

and being responsible for a death of someone he had only trying to help would be a heavy blow for him.

Originally Posted by JTH

You've been reading my Mutagen Man story haven't ya.

Ironically no....but we do appear to be having similar ideas.


Interestingly enough it Leo seems to have a biggish role in the pulverizer/mutagen man episodes as well. So if Mikey has a part in guiding Raph back from his dark state...maybe Leo has some role in what happens in the aftermath of the Mutagen Man situations.

[victory_angel]

The Turtles encounter older version of Leo, Raph, and Mikey who tell them they need the help of their younger selves to defeat the and old evil. It doesn't escape the Mikey's notice that they all look sad when they are talking to Donnie.

Casey questions them about where the older version of Donatello is, but the older turtles are tight lipped about it. Older Leo just says he was lost during an event that was too horrible to mention. Donnie isn't really paying attention to the conversation because he is too busy looking at future technology. But younger Leo is concerned about what happened and asks his older self what happened and insists that he wants to know because he wants to prevent it from happening.

Leo's older self tells him it's useless and reminds him of who he is talking to. He had heard the story and he had tried to prevent it...and it still happened.

Leo still says he wants to know because anything that threatens then lives of any of this brother is of concern to him. Leo sighs and says he doesn't see what good it would do, but tells him (we don't hear it )

[Tarris Vaal]

Poor Donnie does get the worst of it in these doesn't he?

Would this scenario work with Mikey as the 'missing' turtle? I can imagine his reactions better as he slowly notices, and the reactions of the others being determined to save him.