Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep10: "Serpent Hunt"

[Xav]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

My only hope that Bebop and Rocksteady will be the starscreams of the group so they can stand out and constantly try to stab Shredder in the back. Foot clan really does need a starscream.

They already have Stockman.

Originally Posted by ssjup81

Ah, the part where Steranko pulled out that gattling gun and was going nuts shooting, reminded me of one of my favorite moments in the OT and the old arcade games and Turtles in Time and Hyperstone Heist...with Rocksteady doing something similar.

What old arcade games are you talking about? He only appeared in the first one, and while he did appear in the SNES port of Turtles in Time he didn't have a gun in that.

[TrickOrTreater]

Another great episode. Just keeps getting better and better.

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by RedOnYellow

Yeah, her ability to switch between human and snake form is still a curious decision. It begs the question 'Why allow her to do that if you're just going to retromutate her eventually anyway?'

I'm wondering if maybe Baxter's 'accident' ended up making her alternate form permanent, retromutagen or not, and that they'll have to go cold turkey on bringing Karai's mind back, or maybe April's ability works after all. Although maybe it was just because they were afraid the snake form wouldn't be able to convey emotion enough, like how superhero films constantly have the hero taking their mask off so the actor's face can be seen.

Her mutation pridicament may be somewhat of a nod to the original mutagen man plot. And perhaps a little good genes

In the OT the original mutagen man was this unfortnate geek named Seymour Gutz who fell into a vat of unfinished mutagen. He had the ability to change shape for a few moments. But he needed bindex 3 in order to stay one form perminantly. And in Good Genes they emphasized that Donnie was losing himself to his second mutation.

So assuming the stuff Stockman poured into the snake DNA was unfinished retromutagen, then maybe biting April might be a good thing because April's blood may get it to stablize. But yes Donnie wouldn't be happy that April would be in mortal danger in order for Karai to live. But yet again... we know Karai can spit venom, but perhaps when she bites people she can inject mutagen into the blood stream in the same manner of that human/bug mutation.

And we have had some teases towards a good genes like event. Such as the shot focusing on Donnie when Leo is saying the words "Before some random joe gets mutated." In Follow the Leader. And Donnie flying over the mutagen vat trying to stop April from falling in Lonely Mutation of Baxter Stockman. So maybe while April is trying to mentally heal Karai. Something happens and Karai looks like she's about to bite April. Donnie pushes her out of the way and gets bitten instead.

But then again the Good Genes mutation was caused by man made mutagen which was wrecking havok with Donatello's already mutated DNA.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Haven't gone through the thread to see if the pic was posted, but hey:

Old Hob cameo!

Well, more of an Easter Egg, but still. Loved it.

I thought something was odd about that cat, it really is a nice cameo.

[ssjup81]

Originally Posted by Xav

They already have Stockman.
What old arcade games are you talking about? He only appeared in the first one, and while he did appear in the SNES port of Turtles in Time he didn't have a gun in that.

I was talking about the first arcade game and I meant Hyperstone Heist. You're right about Turtles in Time. I thought I took that out before I posted.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

I don't think they showed any proof of the actual time frame, though I recall the Turtles figuring out/deciding that time works differently there than it does on Earth. Just have to trust Mikey on that one I guess.

Leatherhead had also been there a lot longer (years?) and came back noticeably aged. As well as Mikey having had time to figure out a lot of survival stuff there. (Edit: That would have been weird if Mikey came back clearly older than his brothers. o.O Though I guess he'd now be some months older than he used to be?)

As a matter of fact, they did discover the time works differently there, due to Leatherhead having been there for several decades, as well as Mikey's months-long stay compared to their shorter one. Also, would like to point out that since they all share the same "mutation day(birthday)", that would now actually make him several months OLDER than the others! Might explain his quick "growing up" or boost in maturity. Which is funny, because Leo being the oldest has always been the norm- but what if Mikey were the oldest? That does complicate things.

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

For that matter, this Shredder looks like music of any sort probably angers him. Let alone use retro music themed names.

Not sure how it could be anyone else but Mikey. (Or one or more of the others..? Eh..) Interested in seeing how that happens, hard enough so speculate on, must have taken some definite thought by the writing team.

I think everyone's forgetting someone else who is pretty obvious to me- Baxter. The names were RIGHT THERE on the screen when they were mutated, and it's BAXTER'S LAB! Duh. Why wouldn't HE be the one naming them when he's the one performing the mutation?

Originally Posted by ssjup81

But Shredder didn't name them in the OT. Bebop and Rocksteady had those names (their street/gang names) prior to their mutations. The only mutants in the OT Shredder named were the Punk Frogs.

This is true- but it has nothing to do with why they would have the same names now. They were in a gang in the OT, it was just their street-names. Here, someone ELSE named them that. My bet's on Baxter.

Originally Posted by THGhost

Semantics. He still chose to keep them as their names. My question still stands - what possible reason would the Nick Shredder have to give mutated Ivan and Zeck the names of Bebop & Rocksteady? It wouldn't make sense.

Why wouldn't Shredder have kept the same names in the OT? He had no reason to change them, and wouldn't have cared what they called themselves- it was just a name for him to yell at them. You're right about one thing, though- it doesn't make sense for Shredder to call them that. In this version, I suspect the names came from someone else- Baxter. He's the one doing the mutation experiment, and it's his lab, so it makes more sense for HIM to choose their new names. And he's got the right type of personality to go for those off-beat names. Probably even named them for the same reason(s) Mikey would have. Him naming them makes more sense than either Mikey OR Shredder!

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I can see Shredder naming them because they're his "property" now and the mutation was a punishment. He calls Bradford and Xever by their names because he didn't mutate them and they weren't being punished.

Bebop and Rocksteady being named by Shredder makes sense. He's likely to keep a close eye over them.

Why do you still insist on this? Even if Shredder will refuse to call them by their real names, he's not just going to go with Bebop and Rocksteady because he thinks it fits.

"I am no longer going to refer to by your real names so I can degrade, your new names will be the words for Proto-Jazz and Proto-Reggae!"

It'll just be weird if that happens.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Why does everyone keep thinking in such narrow terms? Mikey isn't the ONLY one who can name things! Baxter does it, too- and is far more likely than EITHER of those two to call them by those names- heck, those names were already on the screen of his equipment during the mutation. It's pretty obvious who named them that- Baxter did. (Although it's certainly more creative than his "Maze of Doom".... Thank GAWDS.)

[evan2000]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Why does everyone keep thinking in such narrow terms? Mikey isn't the ONLY one who can name things! Baxter does it, too- and is far more likely than EITHER of those two to call them by those names- heck, those names were already on the screen of his equipment during the mutation. It's pretty obvious who named them that- Baxter did. (Although it's certainly more creative than his "Maze of Doom".... Thank GAWDS.)

Contrary to what you thought you saw, the only readable words on Baxter's screen were "Anton Zeck" and "Warthog", and later on "Ivan Steranko" and "Rhinoceros". No sign of "Bebob" and "Rocksteady" anywhere I looked.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Why wouldn't Shredder have kept the same names in the OT? He had no reason to change them, and wouldn't have cared what they called themselves- it was just a name for him to yell at them. You're right about one thing, though- it doesn't make sense for Shredder to call them that. In this version, I suspect the names came from someone else- Baxter. He's the one doing the mutation experiment, and it's his lab, so it makes more sense for HIM to choose their new names. And he's got the right type of personality to go for those off-beat names. Probably even named them for the same reason(s) Mikey would have. Him naming them makes more sense than either Mikey OR Shredder!

I could just as easily counter that with - why did he? He might have thought those names were stupid and picked his own. The same goes for the Nick Shredder.

Anyway, the "OT" Shredder wasn't my point. Keep that in the 80s board. And yes, I am right about the Nick Shredder naming them Bebop & Rocksteady not making sense. Thank you.

Originally Posted by evan2000

Contrary to what you thought you saw, the only readable words on Baxter's screen were "Anton Zeck" and "Warthog", and later on "Ivan Steranko" and "Rhinoceros". No sign of "Bebob" and "Rocksteady" anywhere I looked.

http://i.imgur.com/GCIPfEX.jpg

I too did not notice their names anywhere on any of Baxter's screens either. If anyone can spot them and post a screenshot, please feel free.

So it's either Mikey or Baxter; or possibly Shredder if the writers get creative enough. Or someone else entirely. I can't wait to find out.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

I think everyone's forgetting someone else who is pretty obvious to me- Baxter. The names were RIGHT THERE on the screen when they were mutated, and it's BAXTER'S LAB! Duh. Why wouldn't HE be the one naming them when he's the one performing the mutation?

True, he'd also be a good option to in some dorky way come up with those names.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

True, he'd also be a good option to in some dorky way come up with those names.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more likely it sounds.

[Amaranthus]

Originally Posted by THGhost

Yeah, the more I think about it the more likely it sounds.

Did you all forget that Ciro confirmed Mikey was going to name them?

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by Amaranthus

Did you all forget* that Ciro confirmed Mikey was going to name them?

Someone could have mentioned this before.

Well then, we clearly have a better idea of how this show should work than the actual writers.

[Amaranthus]

Originally Posted by THGhost

Someone could have mentioned this before.

Well then, we clearly have a better idea of how this show should work than the actual writers.

I shouldn't have made that mistake.
I'm fairly fluent at English. What is happening?

[Electric]

I thought it was pretty obvious that Mikey would name bebop, after he mentioned the "weird sounds" zeck was making. And honestly, rock and steady are two easy words for Mikey to think of and out together. I refer back to one of my favorite scenes of the entire show (that I probably bring up way too much) but dog pounds double mutation. Bradford roared at Mikey, and Mikey replied "roar yourself you razor faced dog" before combing roar and razor to get rhazar.

[evan2000]

Originally Posted by ElectricN

I thought it was pretty obvious that Mikey would name bebop, after he mentioned the "weird sounds" zeck was making. And honestly, rock and steady are two easy words for Mikey to think of and out together. I refer back to one of my favorite scenes of the entire show (that I probably bring up way too much) but dog pounds double mutation. Bradford roared at Mikey, and Mikey replied "roar yourself you razor faced dog" before combing roar and razor to get rhazar.

Actually it was Donnie who mentioned about the "weird sounds"

As for Rocksteady I'm still leaning towards this:

Originally Posted by evan2000

I caught something though, when Steranko was aiming his tranquilizer gun at Karai, he said "steady... steady..."

It would've been heavy foreshadowing (if we hadn't already know he was going to be Rocksteady)

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by evan2000

Actually it was Donnie who mentioned about the "weird sounds"

As for Rocksteady I'm still leaning towards this:

Originally Posted by evan2000

I caught something though, when Steranko was aiming his tranquilizer gun at Karai, he said "steady... steady..."

It would've been heavy foreshadowing (if we hadn't already know he was going to be Rocksteady)

I think you're ready way too much into that.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Only thing I can figure is that Splinter and Karai were just out there trying to survive. Maybe psychological stress of everything that had and was happening around them played a role. The Turtles however have each other and their friends to keep them grounded.

Granted Mikey did not turn feral when he was alone trying to survive in Dimension X for, what was to him, months. Maybe the Turtles have an easier time being within a human mindset, whereas maybe humans that turn into other things have a harder time keeping out of mentally becoming what they turned into. Such as resisting becoming mentally rat-like, the reverse of the Turtles embracing a human mind.

I'm wondering though, maybe it's the 'spliced' DNA causing this? Can animal DNA even cause somebody to become more animal-like in behavior, or do you think that some of this is purely mental, akin to people who think they're wolves (lycanthropy)?

I admit I was also bothered a bit at the notion that some of this DNA was actively 'spliced' and that mutants are 'hybrids,' pretty much because any changes to DNA will be very small and a lot of it is already shared (like 90% similarity between human and cat, for instance, or 96% now understood between human and chimp.) You can't have too much change, or you lose the ability for humanlike reasoning, ability to speak, and so on. I'm wondering if the mutants aren't really just like those lab animals that you hear about, only having a gene or two spliced in, but gaining the whole ability to 'glow' under florescent lights (cats and pigs) or have spider silk protein in their milk (goats.) Humans can grow horns even without mutation, and they don't need animal DNA to have tails or tons of hair or act feral, but maybe the mutagen just 'switches on' those atavistic or abnormal traits when it isn't making a small change to the DNA.

I don't know, I'm just rambling here. Each episode seems to have something I like, and yet another thing I could have easily done without.

[blindturtle02]

I enjoyed this episode as much as the last one. Great to see Shredder and his minions back in the picture. Although like some of you, I'm wondering if Zek and Steranko will stay with the Foot or eventually ditch them. Yeah, they served the Shredder in the 87 toon, but Steranko doesn't seem like the type to take orders. However, Shredder excels at breaking spirits. I'm good either way. I love the variety of mutants Shredder has to choose from now, but would love to see these two on their own eventually and plotting to pay the Shredder back. I suppose TigerClaw will keep those two in line if it comes down to that. Shredder's sure asking for it one way or another. I only wish we'd gotten to see Bebop and Rocksteady in action. It would have been awesome if we'd gotten two episodes back to back last weekend. That mutation scene was such a tease and I agree with those of you who wished they hadn't revealed it at Comic Con. Man, I've got to quit clicking on those panels and spoiling things for myself. Maybe.