Why do people obsess over "Same As It Never Was"?!

[magidkaiser]

i like this episode too

[Bry]

THREAD RESURRECTED.

I mean... yeah, it was a great episode. Definitely one of the best in that series. But it also stands out so much by contrast. Even though the 2003 series went to darker places than most other "mainstream" TMNT stuff, that episode went so full grimdark it was pretty shocking.

I wouldn't want to have seen any more of it, though. It still has so much impact because it was a one-off, I think. It'd lose its specialness if they'd gone back to that well, and they were smart not to.

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

I loved Nano. The ending of that first episode was just heart-wrenching.

That scream! Man. I remember that being a surprisingly emotional ending for the episode where the Turtles fought Garbage Voltron.

In hindsight, that episode had a lot more going on than one'd expect.

[ABrown]

Lots of action cartoons have a "what if" episode. The original TMNT cartoon had "Shredderville", or whatever it was called. But this episode, I mean wow. This episode just took it to a whole nother level. There's action cartoons where you sit there and you're rooting for the character because you like the character. But when watching SAINW for the first time, I remember just really wanting the turtles to come out victorious. I remember how badly I wanted them to defeat Shredder for the terrible future he created.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Funny, but I just remember staring dumb-struck when Mikey went down. And then Leo, and Raph. Heck, I was even a little shocked on first seeing Mikey with a missing arm. I knew at that point it was gonna be seriously dark. Oddly enough, I LOVED his future bad-@$$ self almost as much as his present-day self!

[mrminister4446]

Yeah, its a cool episode, sort of gave off a Wolfenstein new order vibe. But as others have pointed out, it didn't need a 2nd episode. I also do not think it was extremely awesome and one of the best, since it didn't leave an impact on me, but it was one of the good ones.

[Huzzah]

There's a reason I've made multiple customs in various scales of SaiNW Mikey (see my avatar). It's an episode that shows the eternal optimist, most immature, and the most lighthearted can be effected by tragedy. It's awesome seeing Michelangelo as a bad@ss, thar is the driving factor for me loving this episode. Plus, who doesn't love seeing Raph with an eyepatch?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I don't think people are so obsessed now. It was more the first years.

[909 Turtle Fan]

Originally Posted by Huzzah

There's a reason I've made multiple customs in various scales of SaiNW Mikey (see my avatar). It's an episode that shows the eternal optimist, most immature, and the most lighthearted can be effected by tragedy. It's awesome seeing Michelangelo as a bad@ss, thar is the driving factor for me loving this episode. Plus, who doesn't love seeing Raph with an eyepatch?

Raph actually has stitches across his eye, not an eye patch. also IMO this was by far the greatest tmnt episode ever. I remember watching it that Saturday morning and being in awe.

[Huzzah]

True, but I actually just meant that he was one eyed, which is always fun. Haha

[909 Turtle Fan]

Originally Posted by Huzzah

True, but I actually just meant that he was one eyed, which is always fun. Haha

that's right! I hope IDW or nick show him with the one eyed look at some point. also your customs are rad

[Huzzah]

Thank you much, but if history has shown us anything in the new cartoon, only bad guys have one eye (Shredder, Rocksteady, Tigerclaw), unless they plan to either make Raph evil, or shake up the status quo, I dunno if it'll happen. Now I do see it happening one way or another in the IDW comic though.

[Xav]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I know the FW cartoon did an episode like that but it was played for laughs, this is sort of the "real" Shredder controls the world episode, his government is opressive, he has enslaved two planets, he will go on to conquer the universe, Splinter and Casey are dead, the turtles have changed for the worse and there's a lot of sacrifice.

Shredder enslaved two planets? I thought he only enslaved Earth.

Originally Posted by TurtleFan2012

I wonder why Future Ch'rell looks completely different in that episode?

Most likely because he was older.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

He was already over a thousand, what's a few more decades by that point? ALL the Utroms were "old" to begin with at the beginning of the series, they live a REALLY long time. I doubt three more decades would make any difference to appearance. I think it was because it was a different "reality". That was ONE possible future, a la Back To the Future. Like Donnie going into the alternate timeline where Biff was rich, powerful, and married to his mom. Or in this case, Shredder was in control of everything, and Don's family was in pieces.

[NoName999]

Originally Posted by Xav

Shredder enslaved two planets? I thought he only enslaved Earth.

He also took over the Utrom homeworld (hence the captured Utroms forcing to work under him) we just don't see it.

[DarkLightDragon]

Originally Posted by NoName999

He also took over the Utrom homeworld (hence the captured Utroms forcing to work under him) we just don't see it.

Yeah, that was practically where he was planning to strike in upon leaving Earth in Exodus. Heck, some have probably speculated that if the Turtles never intervened and tried stopping him from escaping, he would've come back, with a newly-enslaved Utrom race and all their technology in tow, so he could take over Earth with little struggle, thus leading to the kind of world SAINW is set in.

[mrminister4446]

Originally Posted by DarkLightDragon

Yeah, that was practically where he was planning to strike in upon leaving Earth in Exodus. Heck, some have probably speculated that if the Turtles never intervened and tried stopping him from escaping, he would've come back, with a newly-enslaved Utrom race and all their technology in tow, so he could take over Earth with little struggle, thus leading to the kind of world SAINW is set in.

I do not think it woud be that quick to take the utroms then return to earth. Traveling accross the galaxy is going to take a bit of time, even with triceraton technology. Then he'll have to actually wage a big war, which is going to take loads of time too. So, in my opinion, something else needed to happen in order for that reality to happen, instead of him just managing to leave the planet at that point.

[Garfield]

because a lot of people are into the grim dark, macabre doom and gloom stuff. That kind of thing is intriguing to a lot of people. I thought SAITW was okay. really liked it the first time I saw it but think its a little ridiculous now. Also the fact that they couldn't do the things they needed that they needed to make that kind of thing show better goof it up for me a little*remember Karai's death scene* utter cheese. blarg!

[Spike Spiegel]

There's no question of how great this episode was. Time travel stories can do a lot in showing the personalities of certain characters in a different light. To see a Michelangelo that doesn't tell jokes--that was scary.

But personally, I think "Insane in the Membrane" was even grimmer and darker. It was almost like a David Cronenberg film.

[Cure]

Originally Posted by Spike Spiegel

There's no question of how great this episode was.

Of course there's a question. There are many: was it pandering? How much of it was done solely for shock value? Why was it so cliched?

That's just three.

[Spike Spiegel]

Originally Posted by Cure

Was it pandering?

No one necessarily wanted to see

Spoiler:

everyone die at the end

. I think the expectation was that Donatello would bring them all together and that they would win the battle easily. That seems like something that would go against fan expectations, as well as the precedent for clean neat endings set by other examples of these kinds of stories (i.e. that episode of "Teen Titans" where Starfire goes to the future).

Originally Posted by Cure

How much of it was done solely for shock value?

I think a lot of the different aspects of that story built on the characters and their relationships in a logical way, which allowed for the "shocking" stuff.

Spoiler:

April is just as steadfast as ever, despite the loss of Casey. Karai's stubbornness and her spurned attraction (?) to Leonardo created a lot of tension that forces you to more closely examine their present-day relationship. The fates of Stockman and Hun hinted at their symbiosis and relation to each other in the dysfunctional family that is the upper management of the Foot Clan (i.e. Shredder is like a narcissistic parent, with Hun as the Golden Child and Stockman as the Scapegoat).

Originally Posted by Cure

Why was it so cliched?

It was your basic Orwellian future, but the storyline struck me as the kind of thing Donatello might think about a lot, being the most intellectual turtle. Maybe it's like his worst nightmare realized. The episode took the conventions of that type of future and adapted it to the Turtles' lives in a unique way.

Besides, everything's "been done before," right?