Mighty Mutanimals#1 Discussion & Preview

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Man. Mankind. HuMANity. The default term used to refer to our species, Homo sapiens, seems to be the male gender. Historically and scientifically, it's always been like this. At most, we could've had "Mutagen Human", or "Mutagen Person". "Mutagen Guy" would raise the same problems, I expect... I just now realized that sounded like Alicia Silverstone's character in the infamous Batman & Robin movie, so having made my point, I'll move on now just so I don't throw up a little in my mouth.

As for Hob's vision of mutants as a people in their own right, they won't last that long if they don't start mutating animals of the same species as previously existing mutants and have them reproduce, you know? And to do that, they'll need males and females. Like it or not, mutantdom is inherently dependent on the same gender roles as our own species. For all intents and purposes, they are funny-looking humans. That's how the Mutagen works, it's intended to transform the recipient into the halfway point between two species: if you're an animal it makes you more human, if you're a human it makes you more of an animal. If you're several different animals, well, it'll make you a freak of "nature".

But no less of a (Mutagen) Man. The human bit always seems to dominate.

Word.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Allio

considering how using the term "man" has been used to describe us since the beginning of our naming convention, you know MANkind, huMANity...Trust me when I say, we aren't going to be changing our naming convention anytime soon.

I'm sorry that "Uggah uggah" didn't stick

Originally Posted by ChosenOne

Man. Mankind. HuMANity. The default term used to refer to our species, Homo sapiens, seems to be the male gender. Historically and scientifically, it's always been like this. At most, we could've had "Mutagen Human", or "Mutagen Person". "Mutagen Guy" would raise the same problems, I expect... I just now realized that sounded like Alicia Silverstone's character in the infamous Batman & Robin movie, so having made my point, I'll move on now just so I don't throw up a little in my mouth.

Fun fact. Old English "Man" is in fact not meant to refer to a male human, it was gender-neutral. And to specify gender, you added werman for male and wyfman for female. If it's been changed once, it can be changed again.

So, it's not always been like this. The past have often been shown to be more equal, less racist and more gender queer positive then what we are today.

[ProphetofGanja]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Fun fact. Old English "Man" is in fact not meant to refer to a male human, it was gender-neutral. And to specify gender, you added werman for male and wyfman for female. If it's been changed once, it can be changed again.

So, it's not always been like this. The past have often been shown to be more equal, less racist and more gender queer positive then what we are today.

Exactly right

[DrSpengler]

Ya know what? I've changed my mind. I'll get in on this.


I think the only "issue" here is that there are some individuals out there incapable of consuming media unless it's through the lens of their personal politics.

So if a character in a comic uses the term "man" then it must be a slight toward some subsect of the LGBTQ demographic, right? They're reading a comic and actively looking to be offended.

Back when April's dad was healed by the ooze during the "Northampton" arc, people were sending angry letters (some published in the back of the comic) about how offensive it was that Mr. O'Neil would be happy not to be disabled anymore. That was "ablest" and a slight toward "handicap culture".

Everything is offensive, these days. Use a pronoun and you're "transphobic" (the recent Batgirl comic controversy BS). Cure a disabled character of their handicap and you're an "ablest".

I know that there are a lot of people out there who won't read a comic unless it tackles gender and politics issues, so when a comic leaves that baggage at the door, then the writers must be "cis-scum" who need to "check their privilege" or whatever. It's like a complex or something.

But there's a reason this comic is called "Mutanimals" and not "Mutumblr". Can we at least try to enjoy it on an apolitical level?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Ya know what? I've changed my mind. I'll get in on this.


I think the only "issue" here is that there are some individuals out there incapable of consuming media unless it's through the lens of their personal politics.

So if a character in a comic uses the term "man" then it must be a slight toward some subsect of the LGBTQ demographic, right? They're reading a comic and actively looking to be offended.

Back when April's dad was healed by the ooze during the "Northampton" arc, people were sending angry letters (some published in the back of the comic) about how offensive it was that Mr. O'Neil would be happy not to be disabled anymore. That was "ablest" and a slight toward "handicap culture".

Everything is offensive, these days. Use a pronoun and you're "transphobic" (the recent Batgirl comic controversy BS). Cure a disabled character of their handicap and you're an "ablest".

I know that there are a lot of people out there who won't read a comic unless it tackles gender and politics issues, so when a comic leaves that baggage at the door, then the writers must be "cis-scum" who need to "check their privilege" or whatever. It's like a complex or something.

But there's a reason this comic is called "Mutanimals" and not "Mutumblr". Can we at least try to enjoy it on an apolitical level?

Again, word.

[Weapons@theready]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Ya know what? I've changed my mind. I'll get in on this.


I think the only "issue" here is that there are some individuals out there incapable of consuming media unless it's through the lens of their personal politics.

So if a character in a comic uses the term "man" then it must be a slight toward some subsect of the LGBTQ demographic, right? They're reading a comic and actively looking to be offended.

Back when April's dad was healed by the ooze during the "Northampton" arc, people were sending angry letters (some published in the back of the comic) about how offensive it was that Mr. O'Neil would be happy not to be disabled anymore. That was "ablest" and a slight toward "handicap culture".

Everything is offensive, these days. Use a pronoun and you're "transphobic" (the recent Batgirl comic controversy BS). Cure a disabled character of their handicap and you're an "ablest".

I know that there are a lot of people out there who won't read a comic unless it tackles gender and politics issues, so when a comic leaves that baggage at the door, then the writers must be "cis-scum" who need to "check their privilege" or whatever. It's like a complex or something.

But there's a reason this comic is called "Mutanimals" and not "Mutumblr". Can we at least try to enjoy it on an apolitical level?

As if I didn't respect you enough for TMNT Entity, you go and make me respect you so much more...kudos sir and spot on

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Ya know what? I've changed my mind. I'll get in on this.


I think the only "issue" here is that there are some individuals out there incapable of consuming media unless it's through the lens of their personal politics.

So if a character in a comic uses the term "man" then it must be a slight toward some subsect of the LGBTQ demographic, right? They're reading a comic and actively looking to be offended.

Back when April's dad was healed by the ooze during the "Northampton" arc, people were sending angry letters (some published in the back of the comic) about how offensive it was that Mr. O'Neil would be happy not to be disabled anymore. That was "ablest" and a slight toward "handicap culture".

Everything is offensive, these days. Use a pronoun and you're "transphobic" (the recent Batgirl comic controversy BS). Cure a disabled character of their handicap and you're an "ablest".

I know that there are a lot of people out there who won't read a comic unless it tackles gender and politics issues, so when a comic leaves that baggage at the door, then the writers must be "cis-scum" who need to "check their privilege" or whatever. It's like a complex or something.

But there's a reason this comic is called "Mutanimals" and not "Mutumblr". Can we at least try to enjoy it on an apolitical level?

Agreed. That stuff about April's father being happy about getting cured really shouldn't be offensive at all, of course he's happy! Why wouldn't he be?

Ironic that this issue in particular gains some controversy for introducing some old toy character with the same name he has had from the start, when it also revealed a character to have been in a same-sex relationship, possibly the first same-sex relationship in the franchise.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The first in the entire TMNT franchise in all its iterations, I believe.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

The first in the entire TMNT franchise in all its iterations, I believe.

So yeah, Lindsey liking girls is exactly the type of milestone that should be celebrated, instead of focusing on wheter or not a jar of organs and goop should really be called a "man".

[Mutant Ninja Anole]

I'll take a moment to say that while I have convictions about human sexuality that put me firmly in the conservative camp I will not unsubscribe from a comic simply because Lindsey had a same sex relationship. Heck me and my wife watch Downton Abbey every week (My personal budget might make me choose to wait for trade paperback or something though). I can read a story that doesn't perfectly reflect things as I see it all the time, it's good for perspective if nothing else. That's not enough for a lot of people and frankly I wouldn't expect it to be. These things are important. Regardless, this may not be the best place to fully hash out a debate like this apart from the comic.

Speaking of which, Hob's extremism, born of his traumatic experience is going to cost them. He basically drove Lindsey into Null's arms with his little rampage, and you could tell Slash was disturbed by his interrogation tactics. It's increasingly obvious Slash is stronger, smarter and more level headed than Hob, to say nothing of being more empathetic. At some point this is going to come to a head and Slash is going to have to challenge him.

As for Lindsey, I'm guessing when she sees the scope of what Null is up to, whatever that is, she'll...well I don't know. She's been rather mercenary so far, though she seemed to at least be concerned about the mutants well being, when I wasn't sure entering this if she saw them as more than experiments. Side note, she's remarkably competent, spouting off info to help Hob find her even while being kidnapped. You have to think she suspected something like this might happen.

With regards to mutagen man, we know he's valuable enough that they let him go rather than risk hurting him. When you think of the danger him being exposed to the public represents, it makes me wonder just what they have planned for him if he's that precious and perhaps difficult to replace.

[Weapons@theready]

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

Things certainly got dark when double M decided that his method of being "saved" was different from what the Mutanimals had in mind. Didn't expect it from this book.

Yeah it was a heavy moment but I'm glad its in there,because honestly, thats probably closer to how it would play out if that really happened to someone

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Weapons@theready

Yeah it was a heavy moment but I'm glad its in there,because honestly, thats probably closer to how it would play out if that really happened to someone

Well it's hard to imagine being jar of guts is anything other than misery, even if you have lived your entire life as such I'd still imagine you'd want to die.

Spoiler:

Although, given the fact that he probably just exist as an experiment, how does he know what a gun is?

[Plasticplayhouse]

Originally Posted by Ninjinister
Things certainly got dark when double M decided that his method of being "saved" was different from what the Mutanimals had in mind. Didn't expect it from this book.

Originally Posted by Weapons@theready

Yeah it was a heavy moment but I'm glad its in there,because honestly, thats probably closer to how it would play out if that really happened to someone

i thought that was one of the greatest moments in the whole comic. i felt it to be pretty powerful. it made me step outside my box and actually consider the emotions and pain someone in MM's circumstance may have.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Plasticplayhouse

Originally Posted by Ninjinister
Things certainly got dark when double M decided that his method of being "saved" was different from what the Mutanimals had in mind. Didn't expect it from this book.



i thought that was one of the greatest moments in the whole comic. i felt it to be pretty powerful. it made me step outside my box and actually consider the emotions and pain someone in MM's circumstance may have.

Agreed. Same here.

[Mayhem]

Originally Posted by neatoman

So yeah, Lindsey liking girls is exactly the type of milestone that should be celebrated, instead of focusing on wheter or not a jar of organs and goop should really be called a "man".

Indeed.

"Mutagen Person"

File alongside "post person", "person hole cover", and "person eating shark"

[Weapons@theready]

What if we call it Mutagen Mutant?

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Weapons@theready

What if we call it Mutagen Mutant?

If this were a DC property, I could see them adapting MM into a show called "Mutagen".

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by DrSpengler

Back when April's dad was healed by the ooze during the "Northampton" arc, people were sending angry letters (some published in the back of the comic) about how offensive it was that Mr. O'Neil would be happy not to be disabled anymore. That was "ablest" and a slight toward "handicap culture".

Everything is offensive, these days. Use a pronoun and you're "transphobic" (the recent Batgirl comic controversy BS). Cure a disabled character of their handicap and you're an "ablest".

Wait, that was the problem? I thought people were complaining about the fact that Beth essentially drugged him.

I have a lot of health issues and although they technically don't qualify for "disability", they do limit me from a lot of things. And I would be massively happier if they all just disappeared tomorrow morning.

Or, to quote a friend of mine who has been in a wheelchair for many years, and how I actually found out about the concept of ableism (forgive the typos I'm copying it directly from Facebook and only editing the f bomb)

God f**king dammit stupid ass blogger moms! An disabled person learning 2 walk again isnt a 'ableist fantasy!' Id' give almost litteraly anything 2 walk again! Dont act like you kno my life!

Originally Posted by The Big Bad

Really, can somebody explain why geneticists and biologists, who of all people should understand the biological components for sex, would look at an entirely new being, one that is apparently one of a kind and possesses no primary or secondary sexual characteristics, and say "male" (or "female")--more so since the team is apparently led by a woman who isn't straight, and therefore is probably more aware than many others about how pigeonholing is problematic?

We know nothing about who or what Mutagen Man was before the experiments, so what if the character identified him or herself as male before the mutation - whether the character had male or female organs in the beginning? If I got in an accident that made me nothing but a somehow still-living brain floating in a vat, I'm pretty darn sure I'd still think of myself as a dude. If a transgendered person was female in body but identified as a male, they'd probably think of themselves as a dude still after the same accident, too.

If you wanna really get into the particulars of the use of gender in disembodied organs in this franchise, why not instead question why Brain Drain is said to be a female in the character's profile but is exclusively referred to with "he" and "him" in the book?

The bizarre dichotomy of all of this is that despite a lesbian being one of my most important people in my teen years, knowing and hanging out with all of her friends, and still being in contact with all of them and a lot of other LGBT people in my life... none of them complain about this stuff. At all. A lot of them read comics, love superheroes, both genders, and sure, they're thrilled when a well-written LGBT character is introduced and a bit disappointed when they're written poorly or given an unfair break - but for the most part just the absence of them isn't ever brought up, aren't pissed at gender pronouns... none of this is ever a topic of conversation. I look at the internet and it's everywhere. Some have said it's because my circle is just a small sampling that isn't reflective of the world, but I'm more under the impression that people just love whining about s**t on the internet.

We're all in this together, and we're not going to get anywhere being at each other's throats all the time, especially over simple things like works of fiction. If you really care enough about the subject, don't sit there and complain - do something about it! Do for genders and sexuality what Milsetone did for ethnicity in the '90's - write interesting characters with interesting stories, with some of these characters prominently being of the characteristic you're concerned about.

[ChosenOne]

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

Wait, that was the problem? I thought people were complaining about the fact that Beth essentially drugged him.

I have a lot of health issues and although they technically don't qualify for "disability", they do limit me from a lot of things. And I would be massively happier if they all just disappeared tomorrow morning.

Or, to quote a friend of mine who has been in a wheelchair for many years, and how I actually found out about the concept of ableism (forgive the typos I'm copying it directly from Facebook and only editing the f bomb)





We know nothing about who or what Mutagen Man was before the experiments, so what if the character identified him or herself as male before the mutation - whether the character had male or female organs in the beginning? If I got in an accident that made me nothing but a somehow still-living brain floating in a vat, I'm pretty darn sure I'd still think of myself as a dude. If a transgendered person was female in body but identified as a male, they'd probably think of themselves as a dude still after the same accident, too.

If you wanna really get into the particulars of the use of gender in disembodied organs in this franchise, why not instead question why Brain Drain is said to be a female in the character's profile but is exclusively referred to with "he" and "him" in the book?

The bizarre dichotomy of all of this is that despite a lesbian being one of my most important people in my teen years, knowing and hanging out with all of her friends, and still being in contact with all of them and a lot of other LGBT people in my life... none of them complain about this stuff. At all. A lot of them read comics, love superheroes, both genders, and sure, they're thrilled when a well-written LGBT character is introduced and a bit disappointed when they're written poorly or given an unfair break - but for the most part just the absence of them isn't ever brought up, aren't pissed at gender pronouns... none of this is ever a topic of conversation. I look at the internet and it's everywhere. Some have said it's because my circle is just a small sampling that isn't reflective of the world, but I'm more under the impression that people just love whining about s**t on the internet.

We're all in this together, and we're not going to get anywhere being at each other's throats all the time, especially over simple things like works of fiction. If you really care enough about the subject, don't sit there and complain - do something about it! Do for genders and sexuality what Milsetone did for ethnicity in the '90's - write interesting characters with interesting stories, with some of these characters prominently being of the characteristic you're concerned about.

When even a woman of color who I've been relatively intimate with for some time has asked me pointedly to stop beating around the bush so much and just call her (my native language's somewhat-more-offensive-than-English's equivalent word for) a "black" without even a hint of taking offense, I have to wonder if modern society's obsession with being politically correct hasn't truly gone overboard.

We feel like we have to go through everything with a fine-toothed combed these days, lest we offend someone for their sexuality or gender or skin color, when 99% of the time those people couldn't care less. Sheesh.

I obviously do not condone going around using racist or sexist terms, but we have to draw the line somewhere, or this absolutely irrelevant thing will consume our collective consciousness. If it hasn't already.

[Candy Kappa]

does this mean Drain Brain is an official TMNT transgender character, or is it just a misprint?