So ... Karai

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by TomWaltz

Well, I've got it on good authority that the creative team discusses Karai and her future quite often. You might say I've got someone on the inside feeding me this info...



Talk soon...

Tom W.

Haha, good hear. I know you guys are (masterfully) juggling a large cast. I guess it makes sense that she would kinda take a back seat to some other characters after her first arc came to an end since she's obviously gonna play a huge part in what may well be a Shredderless Foot Clan.

[ToTheNines]

So #44 was awesome, but I gotta say I absolutely hated Splinter and Karai's conversation. At face value, at least.

First of all, what the fudge is Splinter talking about with restoring the Foot to being an honorable clan? I know it was socially acceptable for them to be a band of warriors in feudal Japan, but in modern times, what is the Foot gonna put their skill set towards? They all join the NYPD?

Also, his remark about seeing something more in Karai's eyes was kind of outta nowhere.

Granted, Karai has considered betraying Shredder before, but not because she wished he was more honorable. She even casually told Toshiro that she would take him out, but wasn't skilled enough, simply because she was being marginalized.

So I would hope she was merely manipulating Splinter, trying to gain his trust, and we all haven't forgotten how many times she has killed in cold blood and willingly participated in kidnapping, brainwashing, deceit and bribery.

[Cipher]

Yo, word.

I'd really like the series to not lose track of the fact that Karai turned a minor criminal operation into a band of ninja assassins (leading to plenty of horrible sh*t), because, basically, she was bored. There was very little high-minded in the origin of the modern-day Foot Clan.

[Powder]

I sail seas on the same boat, y'all.

[spookycookies]

The hesitation that Karai displayed after hearing out Splinter really spoke to me. There really is a difference between the Foot as a whole and the Foot under the Shredder's rule. Focusing so much on the Turtles and their defeat drains resources and leads to situations like the Donatello betrayal where they suffered major losses on Burnow.

The foot flourished after City Fall, not only did they have the city under control but because the TMNT weren't in the picture their focus was on maintaining the empire and creating new forces like Koya & Bludgeon.

So I could see why Karai might want to consider all options when dealing with the future of her clan.

[Crabfight]

The Karai scene seemed to have more to do with Splinter than Karai, in my opinion. Splinter just went through this whole "blind anger against Shredder" arc, so I can see how he might want to end the circle of violence that he's become at the center of (along with Shredder).

The interesting part to me is where Splinter will go when he reacts to Donnie's death/incapacitation.

[ToTheNines]

Yeah but Karai was still all "I... I... *smoke bomb*".

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

So I finally got my sig-ot to read thru the entire IDW run of TMNT (up thru New Mutant Order) and re-read it myself at the same time.

It just occurred to me, I think the editorial staff is about to do the same with Karai that they previously did with Alopex. Which is to say, Alopex was an unrepentant villain (who also happened to be drawn in a very intimidating and non-cute/non-fluffy style) up until it came time for her to switch loyalties. We get a single one-shot that explains why she suddenly goes against the Foot and the Shredder, and that was it. No looking back, no more terrifying werewolf art. Just all Campbell-style cute and fluffy.

So honestly, I'm expecting Karai's change of loyalty to be about as abrupt and sudden, with not so much foreshadowing. Or the way Arnold Jones became Hun. And I'm trying not to complain too much, because this is my favorite incarnation of TMNT ever and I have a suspicion about what will eventually happen with Alopex.

I guess what I'm saying is that IDW likes to pull these surprise character developments, but I'm skeptical because I don't want Karai to turn good just because she has always been good in prior incarnations. I want IDW to do with Karai what they want to do because they want to do it... and I trust IDW to do just that.

End random stream-of-consciousness muttering.

[Mormegil]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

So I finally got my sig-ot to read thru the entire IDW run of TMNT (up thru New Mutant Order) and re-read it myself at the same time.

It just occurred to me, I think the editorial staff is about to do the same with Karai that they previously did with Alopex. Which is to say, Alopex was an unrepentant villain (who also happened to be drawn in a very intimidating and non-cute/non-fluffy style) up until it came time for her to switch loyalties. We get a single one-shot that explains why she suddenly goes against the Foot and the Shredder, and that was it. No looking back, no more terrifying werewolf art. Just all Campbell-style cute and fluffy.

So honestly, I'm expecting Karai's change of loyalty to be about as abrupt and sudden, with not so much foreshadowing. Or the way Arnold Jones became Hun. And I'm trying not to complain too much, because this is my favorite incarnation of TMNT ever and I have a suspicion about what will eventually happen with Alopex.

I guess what I'm saying is that IDW likes to pull these surprise character developments, but I'm skeptical because I don't want Karai to turn good just because she has always been good in prior incarnations. I want IDW to do with Karai what they want to do because they want to do it... and I trust IDW to do just that.

End random stream-of-consciousness muttering.

I feel like they won't do that because of the fact that they did something similar to Alopex.

It seemed like Alopex was under some sort of trance and well, or maybe she gained premutated memory back all at once.

If they do I don't think it will be as sudden as Alopex either. Because Karai is much more important. Alopex is support role whose life and decisions don't really have a massive impact on the story. Karai, on the other hand, is next in line to lead the foot.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Mormegil

I feel like they won't do that because of the fact that they did something similar to Alopex.

It seemed like Alopex was under some sort of trance and well, or maybe she gained premutated memory back all at once.

If they do I don't think it will be as sudden as Alopex either. Because Karai is much more important. Alopex is support role whose life and decisions don't really have a massive impact on the story. Karai, on the other hand, is next in line to lead the foot.

I wouldn't be too sure... I think Alopex is about to become MUCH more important, both to Kitsune as a pawn and to us as readers.

[ToTheNines]

I hope not. With Alopex, I wouldn't classify her as equally unrepentant as Karai, if only for the fact that in all her appearances as a villain she was probably only fully sentient for a year, tops. Not to mention her (on panel) body count is dwarfed by Karai's.

I would have been totally cool with Karai betraying the Foot pre-#28/Bebop and Rocksteady, but ever since the end of City Fall... I just don't see why.

[Cipher]

While Alopex's compassionate streak has absolutely been a bit sudden (even in the micro-issue that starts her turn, she unrepentantly kills some dissenting Foot ninja), it's sliiiiightly more believable than any similar moves would be with Karai because Alopex is a mutant; she hadn't had human intellect for more than a few weeks before being warped by the Foot.

Karai, on the other hand, started the Foot as a teen, having had plenty of time to develop some sort of morality or empathy beforehand, even in a white-collar criminal environment. She didn't.

Basically, what ToTheNines said. Alopex can reasonably be portrayed as a victim of circumstances while Karai cannot.

Karai's about as up for redemption as Bebop and Rocksteady, Kitsune, etc. at this point. Which is to say, not, because all these characters have made it clear that others' lives mean nothing to them, with their faculties fully intact.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Cipher

While Alopex's compassionate streak has absolutely been a bit sudden (even in the micro-issue that starts her turn, she unrepentantly kills some dissenting Foot ninja), it's sliiiiightly more believable than any similar moves would be with Karai because Alopex is a mutant; she hadn't had human intellect for more than a few weeks before being warped by the Foot.

Karai, on the other hand, started the Foot as a teen, having had plenty of time to develop some sort of morality or empathy beforehand, even in a white-collar criminal environment. She didn't.

Basically, what ToTheNines said. Alopex can reasonably be portrayed as a victim of circumstances while Karai cannot.

Karai's about as up for redemption as Bebop and Rocksteady, Kitsune, etc. at this point. Which is to say, not, because all these characters have made it clear that others' lives mean nothing to them, with their faculties fully intact.

If IDW portrays Karai as reasonable but not redeemable--i.e. she drops the vendetta against the Hamato clan but does not become a goody two-shoes--then I think it would work. But I think you said it best: Karai has as much real chance for redemption as Bebop and Rocksteady. They used to be lovable hench mutants, and now they're frakking MONSTERS.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, Karai has as much redeeming qualities as Shredder. Is this some kind of message that women can't be pure evil and must have some kind redeeming quality? Is Koya gonna be next in line to gain a conscious? Is Null gonna have a change of heart at the very last minute before she pushes the 'end of the world' button?


I don't know. They did too much work showing Karai as heartless and more than willing to lead a ninja clan that kills without remorse and runs the city with an iron grip. Unlike 2K3 Karai, this one has no real problem with Shredder's methods and ideaologies, she just wants to be the main cheese instead. This was the same Karai that was complaining that Dark Leo wasn't actually killing people. You kinda don't get 'oh she was always a good girl' vibe from that.

She was not twisted, brainwashed or whatever. She was raised in the Foot and wants to lead the Foot and continue to use it to rule everything as the most powerful ninja clan ever and all who oppose them will be crushed without a second thought.

[ProphetofGanja]

we have to keep in mind that Splinter doesn't know the full extent of what Karai's done to restore the Foot Clan to some measure of its former power. and even if he did have some idea, maybe he was just trying to sow seeds of doubt in her mind? he is a ninja after all

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Yeah, Karai has as much redeeming qualities as Shredder. Is this some kind of message that women can't be pure evil and must have some kind redeeming quality? Is Koya gonna be next in line to gain a conscious? Is Null gonna have a change of heart at the very last minute before she pushes the 'end of the world' button?


I don't know. They did too much work showing Karai as heartless and more than willing to lead a ninja clan that kills without remorse and runs the city with an iron grip. Unlike 2K3 Karai, this one has no real problem with Shredder's methods and ideaologies, she just wants to be the main cheese instead. This was the same Karai that was complaining that Dark Leo wasn't actually killing people. You kinda don't get 'oh she was always a good girl' vibe from that.

She was not twisted, brainwashed or whatever. She was raised in the Foot and wants to lead the Foot and continue to use it to rule everything as the most powerful ninja clan ever and all who oppose them will be crushed without a second thought.

And I love her for it! Seriously though, the Karai micro-issue is one of my favorites...

[Cipher]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

If IDW portrays Karai as reasonable but not redeemable--i.e. she drops the vendetta against the Hamato clan but does not become a goody two-shoes--then I think it would work.

That would be completely logical to me; there's no reason for her to view the Turtles as anything other than distractions as long as they don't go after her (and any pre-occupation Shredder has with them has likely been frustrating for her).

But I don't even see her hitting Mirage Karai levels of reasonable. Not without significant maturing.

Also, agreed with the post above. The Karai micro was a lot of fun; I like the version they've presented here.