Why does NuMetal get such a bad rep?

[Krutch]

Admittedly, I'm very biased knowing that I was the prime demographic for the genre when it was hitting its stride, but I just don't understand the hate. From what I gather, the main points people make are...

-Repetitive guitar riffs with next to no guitar solos.
-Rap and Metal do not belong together.
-Lyrics all seem to revolve around an abusive upbringing.
-Limp Bizkit

That seems to be it. And if thats really it, I don't understand the seething hatred it gets from some people. It was a blip in time, it was what it was, but it seems to have left such a mark on some people that they still have hate hard-ons for it.

[Leo656]

It's easy to "hate" on because it's kind of simplistic and generic. And because people need to take shots at something and it's kind of an easy target, musically.

There's stuff I like and stuff I don't, like with any genre of music. But I kind of think that "style" is pretty much done with now. I think the "worst" thing is that, like disco, it's so incredibly dated. Like it's all so very 2002. And then it became so closely associated with a certain "type" of Angry Youth Culture, to the point where now, you can't hear any of that stuff without thinking of skinny guys with dreads, motocross, and Monster Energy Drinks. That kind of betrays the lack of any real substance. Like something really "classic" will still hold up outside its own era, but a lot of that stuff loses its appeal when you're no longer 16 and pissed off and into that "scene". There's stuff I listened to every day back in 2001-ish that I'd be embarrassed to play out loud now.

That doesn't make it horrible, though, just kind of not great. It's good for weightlifting music and stuff like that. I don't think people generally hate it as much as they pretend to, it's just hipster shorthand.

Aside from about 3 songs, though, Limp Bizkit is pretty terrible and nobody should really admit to liking them. I have the "Break Stuff/N2Gether Now" single and that's officially all the Limp Bizkit anyone should be allowed to listen to. That sh*t's just not good for you, dude.

[Prowler]

Because Metalheads hate thinking they've met a fellow fan and then he/she turns out to be a fan of bands like Korn and Slipknot. Many people think those are typical examples of Metal bands. They aren't. Okay, obviously Nu Metal is some sort of bastard child of Thrash Metal, just like Heavy Metal is also the child of Hard Rock music, but calling Slipknot or Korn typical Metal bands is like saying a Jpop female singer with some RnB and Hip Hop influences in her songs like Namie Amuro is a typical example of rap music. Nu Metal basically gives a wrong idea about Heavy metal as a whole which makes many people feel turned off by the whole genre thinking it's all garbage like Nu Metal. It's not. If you want to get into Metal then start listening to Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Metallica pre-Black Album, Slayer, testament, Megadeth, Black Sabbath, etc.

Also, Metal is an extremely diverse genre with plenty of variants just like rock. So saying you like/don't like Metal because you happen to listen to Slipknot means jack, since bands like Iron Maiden have a COMPLETELY different sound.

And Nu metal has quite a "white trash" reputation. Especially bands like Korn and Limp Bizkit. So people don't like being associated with such an image.

Personally, I don't like Nu Metal except for a few songs. Overall I think it's boring.

[Leo656]

That's the thing with me, it all kind of blends. So few groups of that genre really stand out, the only real difference being that some of them have a little more "rap" in their "rap/rock".

Stuck Mojo were pretty good and they were kind of on the upswing of that whole thing, but flamed out before it became a trend. I liked a lot of their stuff, though. A ton of that is due to Rich Ward's amazing guitar work, though. And since he ended up being the co-leader of Fozzy, I think everything ended up where it should have in the end.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Leo656

That's the thing with me, it all kind of blends. So few groups of that genre really stand out, the only real difference being that some of them have a little more "rap" in their "rap/rock".

Stuck Mojo were pretty good and they were kind of on the upswing of that whole thing, but flamed out before it became a trend. I liked a lot of their stuff, though. A ton of that is due to Rich Ward's amazing guitar work, though. And since he ended up being the co-leader of Fozzy, I think everything ended up where it should have in the end.

Each big group has a catchy song or two. Here's some Nu Metal songs I enjoy/have enjoyed before:

"Glass Shatters" by Disturbed
"Bodies" by Drowning Pool
"My way" by Limp Bizkit
"Nookie" by Limp Bizkit
"Star A War" by Static X

[Leo656]

I still crank "Bodies". That one stays fresh.

Actually, I think all anyone needs is the first "WWF Tough Enough" soundtrack, and you're covered. Ya got your Drowning Pool, ya got your Mudvayne... ya got just enough manufactured aggression to get you through an afternoon of free weights and dirt bikes, and nobody has to walk away too injured or embarrassed.

[Prowler]

Ye, I discovered those songs through WWE.

WWF/WWE made Limp Bizkit and a few other Nu Metal songs/bands actually sound enjoyable. I tip my hat off to them.

[Krutch]

Yeah, I can see that it feels very dated. But I feel it sounds that way because after the downfall around 2003, nobody wanted to play it anymore and so you never heard it outside of your own MP3 player, if it were on there. And even then, the songs you'd be hearing would be associated with memories of that time in your life. Had NuMetal bands continued to get airtime or support, it may have lived beyond that and not felt dated(assuming it never evolved past what it was). But it was so quickly dropped and ignored that, yeah, its going to sound like that time because thats the only time you really heard it.

As far as it being associated with an image, thats a statement you can make for any kind of genre of music though. And "white trash" music reaches far beyond NuMetal and dips into many others.

I'll say this about NuMetal; it was huge when it was at its peak. The defense I often give people who hate Insane Clown Posse's music is, how can you hate something when you need to go out of your way to listen to it? But NuMetal was everywhere from commercials to video games to radio to you-name-it. So the over saturation I'd say was definitely something that worked against it. It's not a genre that works well in bulk. Too much angst.

As for Limp Bizkit, I don't mind them. When they're bad, they're bad but when they're good I have no shame in thinking so. Their last album Gold Cobra was probably their best work, even. But nobody's heard it since the genres dead. And its Limp Bizkit

Side note: I only bring this up since I was in a Tim Horton's today and the radio was playing Papa Roach's "Last Resort". And it was one of those "I must be getting old" kind of moments, to hear that playing at a Timmy's

[Prowler]

I was just naming the main reasons why the genre is disliked by a lot of people. And I believe the Nu Metal scene has a worse image than many other genres out there.

I don't hate Nu Metal, I'm just not a fan. And it's not for its bad fans or anything. In fact, plenty of people grew up listening to it and likes/liked some songs. So obviously most Nu Metal fans probably are regular folk. I simply dislike the way it sounds. Also, many songs have lyrics that seem hard to relate to after you stop being a teenager.

As for Rap and Metal not belonging together. Well, that's subjective and I don't know what to think of it. I'm not a fan of Rap music but I don't know enough about it to comment on it. But Rap and Metal are two of the most aggressive genres out there so, in theory, seems like there's a lot of potential for there to be successful fusion between both genres. Although to be honest, ti was mostly Limp Bizkit and maybe Korn where you could smell the Rap influences a mile away. Most people can't really smell the Rap influence away in bands like Slipknot and Disturbed. They just come across as watered down Metal. That's why you have many people thinking Slipknot are a "legit" Metal band on the same bag as Iron Maiden or Metallica, per example.

[Leo656]

Haaaaaaaaah I love Papa Roach. Seen 'em open for Guns back in '06, front row, and they killed, so yeah, they earned their stripes from me and I'm a little biased. Some of the newer stuff's a little too electronic for my taste but they're good.

What kills me about ICP, since you mentioned them, is a lot of people who "hate" ICP aren't even in on the joke... aaaaaand a lot of their "fans" aren't, either, which is pretty F'n tragic. Not saying they're gifted or anything, but... they're actually pretty brilliantly subversive, at least with the entirety of "ICP" as a whole being viewed as a performance art project, and not going solely by their music, which is often of questionable quality. Although c'moooon, I defy anyone not to laugh at at least some of their stuff.

Interesting points, otherwise. Over-saturation definitely played a part in the decline. I mean, look at any and every action movie and comic book movie soundtrack from 2000 to 2005. Just too much when so much of it sounds the same or at least similar. Even some of the better stuff was going to get shuffled in with the lesser stuff, just because of the sheer volume of what was out there.

Not that things have gotten much "better", musically, since the style cooled off. I'd argue popular music is much, much worse. There's still great stuff out there, but I'd argue the stuff people actually get to hear without going on a hunt is at its lowest point in decades.

Since I mentioned Mojo before, I'll just throw this up there. Fun video for probably their biggest "hit". I love that guitar riff. Sh*t stays in my ear for daaaaays like it's 1998 again, every time I hear it.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Not that things have gotten much "better", musically, since the style cooled off. I'd argue popular music is much, much worse. There's still great stuff out there, but I'd argue the stuff people actually get to hear without going on a hunt is at its lowest point in decades.

I dunno about that but can't say I care for any super popular hot band or singer of the moment.

But worse are the hipsters who believe that listening to popular bands from the 60s/70s/80s does not make you a real music fan. Well I don't care. "dad rock" will always be better than music hipsters rave about. I bet they won't complain if their kids end up listening to the same **** as they do, though.

[Leo656]

Ehhh, nobody even wants to believe that their tastes are going to change as they age, and that they'll find themselves listening to and enjoying stuff they once swore they'd despise forever. But it happens to everybody.

To a degree. I mean, there are limits. There are people, I won't say who, because it would compromise their mission, but there are people whose job it is to shoot me directly in the face if I ever willingly concede to listening to anything by The Grateful Dead.

Directly In The Face.

[Krutch]

I'm certainly not enjoying any kind of music you'd hear on the radio, lately. There was a station in Toronto, Indie 88, that was the only station worth listening to. But now they sound like everything else so I've started looking to the web to find something new. I've actually found myself getting into the New Retro Wave scene lately(who the hell names these things, anyways?).

[Leo656]

I been getting into totally random and diverse sh*t lately in the absence of any good new "mainstream" stuff. I've been listening to just so much Angels & Airwaves. Pretty much the exact opposite of this topic.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Ehhh, nobody even wants to believe that their tastes are going to change as they age, and that they'll find themselves listening to and enjoying stuff they once swore they'd despise forever. But it happens to everybody.

Ye I used to mostly listen to Metal from 18 to 21 with some Rock here and there. Nowadays I still like Metal but have taken a liking to Classical and Jazz music as well.

[Leo656]

I still like it all but I've just played so much of that stuff so often that I'm listening to other stuff more.

Really annoys my wife, who'd prefer to listen to mostly King Diamond and nothing else forever.

[Krutch]

Timecop1983, Trevor Something, VHS Glitch, and Dance With The Dead have been playing nonstop these last few months. And Classic Rock will never fall out of rotation

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by Krutch

I'm certainly not enjoying any kind of music you'd hear on the radio, lately. There was a station in Toronto, Indie 88, that was the only station worth listening to. But now they sound like everything else so I've started looking to the web to find something new. I've actually found myself getting into the New Retro Wave scene lately(who the hell names these things, anyways?).

You mean Retro themed Electronic artists such as Miami Nights 1984 and Mitch Murder? I love that stuff.

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by Prowler

You mean Retro themed Electronic artists such as Miami Nights 1984 and Mitch Murder? I love that stuff.

That's the stuff Turbulence is awesome!

[Wesley]

I haven't listened to much nu-metal, but I've heard a few of Linkin Park's songs. I like a few of their songs like In The End and New Divide. I'm not a fan of theirs, though, because I think there is too much angst in their lyrics and their lyrics are too bland.