Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep16: "Clash of the Mutanimals"

[groddofwar]

what if those mind control wyrm creatures have to do something with the creation of wyrm. Maybe someone with wyrms is exposed to mutagen and mutates into wyrm? or, maybe someone mutates with a kraathragon? or someone mutates with regular worms?

[MCLeo28]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The episode itself was fantastic and some of the best fight scenes of the series. The people thinking Dark Raph was going to be some kind of story arc deluded themselves for no reason.

This.

The fight scenes were amazing, especially with Leo vs. Raph and Shredder solo'ing the Turtles and the Mutanimals.

But also, Deadly Venom does mention that Karai will hunt down the the turtles . It'd seem strange to me to include Raph unless he was free from the mind control serum.

[MrTMNT2012]

One thing I'll say about this episode is that it has the BEST fighting choreography out of anything TMNT-related in the past decade!

Been watching the last act like 5 times already....even though the plot is balls.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Mukouno

Okay, I just got to watch the episode… How to put it… I just don’t know, I usually love this show sooo much, but today something about it rubbed me the wrong way.

First of all, the Dark Raph stuff. Sooo much potential for some drama, feels, awesome and emotional fights, just wasted… Okay, nobody ever said it was going to be a big thing and I guess it’s our own fault for getting us way too hyped when the only info we had was ‘loosly based on…’ so yeah. And in retrospect, I guess it was to be expected, I mean this show usually resolves a problem within one episode, so far as it’s not a main plot point. So all in all the Dark Raph actually doesn’t bother me as much, it’s a shame they didn’t do more with it, but I can live with that.

You know what my actual main beef with the episode is? Raph’s characterization. Maybe it’s just me, but it felt really off. Suddenly they make a point of his anger issues once again, when we haven’t had that since… I can’t even remember the last episode where this attitude was the main theme. Maybe ‘The Good, the Bad and Casey Jones’? Since then he’s gradually mellowed, especially during season 3 he had himself under control. Okay okay, I know he’ll always have a short temper and will be angered and annoyed very easily, just as Mikey will always be a happy-go-lucky, fun-loving, scatterbrained and sweet silly dork. That’s just who he is. But still, there has been development with Raph’s character which I hope I’m not the only one aware of. But today? Especially in the beginning, he’s shouting at Leo and even worse beats up Mikey for no reason other than calling him a hothead… Which he IS. Someone can’t handle the truth?

And then, how they snapped him out of the mind control. Okay, as I get it the way to cure someone is invoking strong emotions which itself is a nice, basic idea. So what could they do with that considering Raph? Maybe have him hurt one of his brothers and let his feelings of guilt snap him out of it, let Mikey give him a hug like he did in ‘The Invasion’ or have all of them tell him memories they shared, good ones and bad ones… This could have been done so well… And what did we get? Leo insulting and mocking him, thus pressing his buttons and let his anger free him so that the writers can keep harping on about his anger issues and shoving them in our faces.
(And why did Leo even start with that? It’s not like he knew this was going to break the mind control. Just comes across as a somewhat jerkish move on Leo’s part as well…)
Though I’ll give the writers some credit for creativity, can’t remember seeing someone breaking a mind control by making fun of the victim…

And then there was also Raph’s statement that he wouldn’t be good at following orders when this wasn’t portrayed in ages as well.

So, all in all this felt like season 1 Raph all over again. Really, imo the writers were simply trying too hard.

Don’t get me wrong, all this doesn’t mean I hated the episode. There were some pretty good parts as well, like all the humor made me crack up a few times, Mikey mentioning how these cartoons portray their lifes, the animation was gorgeous and of course the fighting scenes were really awesome! And I did get some feels as well, like Mikey and LH (once again), Mikey wanting to stay at Splinter’s side and of course the Leo/Raph hug. (I’m just a huge sucker for bromance… )
And by far my favorite scene was the torture scene when that worm approached Raph. That was some creepy atmosphere there and I got chills all over my body.

Just the whole Raph thing left a bad taste in my mouth and thus made the episode not as enjoyable as it would have been otherwise.

Pretty much this exactly. What a wasted opportunity and it took 2 steps back with Raph's character. Him being so angry all of the sudden was out of nowhere. The fight scenes were fantastic but that's about it. Disappointing.

[MCLeo28]

Makes me wonder where Rahzar and Fishface were when Tiger Claw left to get reinforcements.

[Ursalink]

Say whatever you want, but I'm glad "Dark Raph" didn't last more than this episode. What I'm really sick of is Shredder being "unbeatable" in such ridiculous way. I know he's a ninja master and all that, but so is Splinter, and we have seen that Splinter is not so unbeatable. Even alone against the turtles and the Mutanimals, he wiped out the floor with all of them. And he even managed to avoid the falling statue. In the first movie, Leo managed at least to cut part of the Shredder arm, so I would like to see this Shredder receiving a similar hit already.

[MCLeo28]

Originally Posted by Ursalink

Say whatever you want, but I'm glad "Dark Raph" didn't last more than this episode. What I'm really sick of is Shredder being "unbeatable" in such ridiculous way. I know he's a ninja master and all that, but so is Splinter, and we have seen that Splinter is not so unbeatable. Even alone against the turtles and the Mutanimals, he wiped out the floor with all of them. And he even managed to avoid the falling statue. In the first movie, Leo managed at least to cut part of the Shredder arm, so I would like to see this Shredder receiving a similar hit already.

Even though the fight scene was amazing, I wholeheartedly agree that Shredder seems unrealistically unbeatable.

At least stay consistent. 2 episodes ago, we had Leo fighting Shredder on equal grounds and in this episode, he literally wiped out the Turtles and a team of mutants. That's crazy.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

I'm sorry...but I just have to laugh. I really do.

I hate to say "I Told You So"...but, guess what.

I. Told. You. So.

And SO MANY people were coming out of the woodwork...saying 'you don't know what you're talking about', 'you're crazy', 'wait and see', and etc. All the people who kept saying 'Give It a Chance, you can't know until you Give It a Chance.' Or 'it'll last a few episodes, so be happy after that, all you Raph fans', and so on...and so forth...

And when this BS crap DOES happen (like I predicted), it's 'oh well' from most. And that's it.

You see...the writers & makers of this show don't HAVE to do anything of that nature for characters like Raph & Mikey, because most will just go "Oh, whatever".

I'm not trying to attack anyone personally by saying that, but it's the Truth.

You could have had Mikey being the one to turn Raph back...since, well...who is the one who always puts jokes on Raph (so why wouldn't you have MIKEY be the one to harass him, let alone say some GOOD things as well...or reference stuff from the past)? Who is the one who hugged Raph and broke him out of his rage in the Season 2 finale? Who is the one that would make the most sense?

Mikey...except the writers are idiots.

The Raph and Mikey brotherhood IS a strong element of the show. But yes, let's just wipe that out of the memory like the Neuralizer in Men in Black.

Or how about giving Raph or Mikey an ATTEMPT at an arc...an ATTEMPT...they dropped the ball with an ongoing Slash vs. Raph rivalry...they dropped the ball on this when you could do TONS (and for those who say that you can't? You don't have much imagination then...I'm sorry, I know that sounds harsh, but you don't)...

So we can have what...9 or so episodes on a farm and 'here's Horror Film #1 and here's Horror Film #2"

But not even a full one on a Dark Raph?

Oh, and how long has the whole Don/Casey/April thing gone on? Or even this Karai/mutated thing? But anything for Raph or Mikey? Nope.

And you STILL, I repeat STILL, have people sticking up or apologizing for the show as if it's nothing. So Of Course the writers will keep doing it. Why shouldn't they?

And for people who Still don't get it...then there's nothing else I can say about it. I've said more than enough in all of my past posts...and if this can't Blatantly Show You where some of us stand, then I simply do not understand and never will.

I'm not talking about anything in the past, so don't bring that up. I'm talking about this current show. The show can strive to higher places with the way many shows are nowadays, and can go much further with BOTH of the Raph & Mikey characters.

But they don't. And they won't. And yes, That Sucks.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

I'm sorry...but I just have to laugh. I really do.

I have to say "I Told You So"...but, guess what.

I. Told. You. So.

And SO MANY people were coming out of the woodwork...saying 'you don't know what you're talking about', 'you're crazy', 'wait and see', and etc. All the people who kept saying 'Give It a Chance, you can't know until you Give It a Chance.'

And when it DOES happen like predicted, it's 'oh well' from most. And that's it.

You see...the writers & makers of this show don't HAVE to do anything of that nature for characters like Raph & Mikey, because most will just go "Oh, whatever".

I'm not trying to attack anyone personally by saying that, but it's the Truth.

You could have had Mikey being the one to turn Raph back...since, well...who is the one who always puts jokes on Raph (so why wouldn't you have MIKEY be the one to harass him, let alone say some GOOD things as well...or reference stuff from the past)? Who is the one who hugged Raph and broke him out of his rage in the Season 2 finale? Who is the one that would make the most sense?

Mikey...except the writers are idiots.

The Raph and Mikey brotherhood IS a strong element of the show. But yes, let's just wipe that out of the memory like the Neuralizer in Men in Black.

Or how about giving Raph or Mikey an ATTEMPT at an arc...an ATTEMPT...they dropped the ball with an ongoing Slash vs. Raph rivalry...they dropped the ball on this when you could do TONS (and for those who say that you can't? You don't have much imagination then...I'm sorry, I know that sounds harsh, but you don't)...

So we can have what...9 or so episodes on a farm and 'here's Horror Film #1 and here's Horror Film #2"

But not even a full one on a Dark Raph?

Oh, and how long has the whole Don/Casey/April thing gone on? Or even this Karai/mutated thing? But anything for Raph or Mikey? Nope.

And you STILL, I repeat STILL, have people sticking up or apologizing for the show as if it's nothing. So Of Course the writers will keep doing it. Why shouldn't they?

And for people who Still don't get it...then there's nothing else I can say about it. I've said more than enough in all of my past posts...and if this can't Blatantly Show You where some of us stand, then I simply do not understand and never will.

I'm not talking about anything in the past, so don't bring that up. I'm talking about this current show. The show can strive to higher places with the way many shows are nowadays, and can go much further with BOTH of the Raph & Mikey characters.

But they don't. And they won't. And yes, That Sucks.

Again, I agree 100%. You hit the nail on the head. You said this better than I ever could.

[THGhost]

Yet another mind control episode. Yay?

I'm looking forward to next week's episode though.

[OrangeNinja1987]

It was an okay episode. The pros definitely outweighed the cons.
Good things:
1. the animation (it keeps getting better and better)
2. The fighting
3. The humor
4. The scene with Raph and the worm (that scream!)

The thing that left a bad taste in my mouth and made me hate the episode for 10 minutes or so afterwards was the stupid Dark Raph!
I know, I know, it was overhyped on the forums. But even for someone who didn't read all the hype online, I still think it would seem very disappointing to see that story potential squandered in 10 minutes.
But the mind control is still being developed, so there could be another dark turtle, who would be harder to turn back. If the mind control isn't improved, dark Karai won't be anything new.
Sigh. I was SO disappointed with this episode afterwards that I even considered if tuning in next week is even worth it. But then I remembered that I love this show and if it falls badly, I'll still watch it to the end. It's the show that got me into TMNT, and now I regret not getting into it years before.
Meh. I guess I can live without Dark Raph. But I still want to see a major Raphael story. Let's just hope the backstory on his shell crack won't be crushed by hype as well. Fingers crossed.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

Again, I agree 100%. You hit the nail on the head. You said this better than I ever could.

Well, if people want to say 'stop firing shots at the show', then the show should Stop Giving The Ammo to do so...

[MrTMNT2012]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

Again, I agree 100%. You hit the nail on the head. You said this better than I ever could.

Agreed with both of you.

I really hope people don't turn a blind eye to all of this and get fooled into thinking this is the same show we were watching in Season 1. At some point our voices have to be heard, if only for the better of the series! We're only at the 3rd Season, there's still time to turn things around...

I mean we went from Avatar: The Last Airbender writers penning this show in Season 1 to freaking Star Wars Rebels writers with this episode...that's QUITE the downgrade!

[Ravenshell]

Originally Posted by snake

I'm so pissed right now. This could've been a great story arc.

I hear ya. Lot of wasted potential imo. Then I got an earful from my husband about how networks hate arcs, because they apparently don't want to run shows with arcs; it's easier to randomly grab from the stack rather than worrying about airing order and crap like that... So, here's our lesson: we're never getting anything more than a 2-parter, because the networks are too lazy to bother showing things in order.

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

I'm sorry...but I just have to laugh. I really do.

I hate to say "I Told You So"...but, guess what.

I. Told. You. So.

And SO MANY people were coming out of the woodwork...saying 'you don't know what you're talking about', 'you're crazy', 'wait and see', and etc. All the people who kept saying 'Give It a Chance, you can't know until you Give It a Chance.' Or 'it'll last a few episodes, so be happy after that, all you Raph fans', and so on...and so forth...

And when this BS crap DOES happen (like I predicted), it's 'oh well' from most. And that's it.

You see...the writers & makers of this show don't HAVE to do anything of that nature for characters like Raph & Mikey, because most will just go "Oh, whatever".

I'm not trying to attack anyone personally by saying that, but it's the Truth.

You could have had Mikey being the one to turn Raph back...since, well...who is the one who always puts jokes on Raph (so why wouldn't you have MIKEY be the one to harass him, let alone say some GOOD things as well...or reference stuff from the past)? Who is the one who hugged Raph and broke him out of his rage in the Season 2 finale? Who is the one that would make the most sense?

Mikey...except the writers are idiots.

The Raph and Mikey brotherhood IS a strong element of the show. But yes, let's just wipe that out of the memory like the Neuralizer in Men in Black.

Or how about giving Raph or Mikey an ATTEMPT at an arc...an ATTEMPT...they dropped the ball with an ongoing Slash vs. Raph rivalry...they dropped the ball on this when you could do TONS (and for those who say that you can't? You don't have much imagination then...I'm sorry, I know that sounds harsh, but you don't)...

So we can have what...9 or so episodes on a farm and 'here's Horror Film #1 and here's Horror Film #2"

But not even a full one on a Dark Raph?

Oh, and how long has the whole Don/Casey/April thing gone on? Or even this Karai/mutated thing? But anything for Raph or Mikey? Nope.

And you STILL, I repeat STILL, have people sticking up or apologizing for the show as if it's nothing. So Of Course the writers will keep doing it. Why shouldn't they?

And for people who Still don't get it...then there's nothing else I can say about it. I've said more than enough in all of my past posts...and if this can't Blatantly Show You where some of us stand, then I simply do not understand and never will.

I'm not talking about anything in the past, so don't bring that up. I'm talking about this current show. The show can strive to higher places with the way many shows are nowadays, and can go much further with BOTH of the Raph & Mikey characters.

But they don't. And they won't. And yes, That Sucks.

I personally agree with all of this. It seems that the writers don't care about developing characters, let alone getting them involved in the storyline.

[OrangeNinja1987]

Besides Dark Raph not being an arc, I think the most surprising thing of this episode was that no one accidentally kicked Shredder's head or hit the fire while he sat in that stupid lowered bunker thing.
With his head just sticking out of the top, it looked like the elevator got stuck.

[Ravenshell]

Originally Posted by OrangeNinja1987

Besides Dark Raph not being an arc, I think the most surprising thing of this episode was that no one accidentally kicked Shredder's head or hit the fire while he sat in that stupid lowered bunker thing.
With his head just sticking out of the top, it looked like the elevator got stuck.

*L* "I'm'a go down here and hang out in the barbecue pit while y'all fight! k, bye!"

[matteso586]

The worms remind me of an episode of Star Wars: Clone Wars.

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

Again, I agree 100%. You hit the nail on the head. You said this better than I ever could.

Yeah, he's right about the story arcs. Ciro and crew claim they don't want to worry about on going arcs, but what they really mean is on going arcs concerning characters that he doesn't care about. Now, his clear favorites Donnie, Casey, April and Leo have arcs that have spanned seasons, but Mikey and Raph can't even get an arc to span 2 episodes.

Originally Posted by Ravenshell

I hear ya. Lot of wasted potential imo. Then I got an earful from my husband about how networks hate arcs, because they apparently don't want to run shows with arcs; it's easier to randomly grab from the stack rather than worrying about airing order and crap like that... So, here's our lesson: we're never getting anything more than a 2-parter, because the networks are too lazy to bother showing things in order.

Depends on the network and show. Last show I watched and truly loved was very hard core in the arcs. Netflix's Daredevil. NCIS is mostly episodic, but it too has major arcs going on, and it's one of the top shows on TV.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Yeah, he's right about the story arcs. Ciro and crew claim they don't want to worry about on going arcs, but what they really mean is on going arcs concerning characters that he doesn't care about. Now, his clear favorites Donnie, Casey, April and Leo have arcs that have spanned seasons, but Mikey and Raph can't even get an arc to span 2 episodes

Yep, I pretty much knew this to be true. Pretty disheartening and infuriating.

Originally Posted by MrTMNT2012

Agreed with both of you.

I really hope people don't turn a blind eye to all of this and get fooled into thinking this is the same show we were watching in Season 1. At some point our voices have to be heard, if only for the better of the series! We're only at the 3rd Season, there's still time to turn things around...

I mean we went from Avatar: The Last Airbender writers penning this show in Season 1 to freaking Star Wars Rebels writers with this episode...that's QUITE the downgrade!

Sadly, nobody cares enough or is just fine with getting the medicore stuff we're getting. Man, I wish we could go back to the writers we had for season 1. That could make a world of difference. Then maybe we could go back to having more balance for the characters.