Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep16: "Clash of the Mutanimals"

[Vicky82]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

I don't think I'm misunderstanding at all. Based on what they put out, Raph is clearly not their favorite character to work with which is fine but since they're supposed to be professional writers, they should never let on that he's not their favorite. Does anyone at all understand what I'm saying?

Raph is very rarely the star of this show and since he doesn't really have time to shine, how does that even make him appealing to kids? You would think if they want to make him more appealing, they would have him do more so that kids could latch onto him.

We really shouldn't have to wait and wait and wait when they have no problem developing Donnie, Leo and April in just about every episode.

I'm tired of fighting. I really am. I just wish someone could see my side to this.

It's something you have to deal with it i'm afraid, everyone has different views.

It's the same with me with Mikey and his ADD/ADHD, because I don't agree with people saying he's dumb. I just have to deal with it.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Vicky82

It's something you have to deal with it i'm afraid, everyone has different views.

It's the same with me with Mikey and his ADD/ADHD, because I don't agree with people saying he's dumb. I just have to deal with it.

I guess so. I just wish the writers would shape up because I'd really like to love this show again.

[Werecat]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

I don't think I'm misunderstanding at all. Based on what they put out, Raph is clearly not their favorite character to work with which is fine but since they're supposed to be professional writers, they should never let on that he's not their favorite...

Raph is very rarely the star of this show...

We really shouldn't have to wait and wait and wait when they have no problem developing Donnie, Leo and April in just about every episode.

I'm tired of fighting. I really am. I just wish someone could see my side to this.

I understand. It does seem like Raph is the writer's most disliked character. It shows through their lack of respect for his power and preventing him from progressing and becoming a strong character capable of anything without his brothers. Every Raph episode it seems like Raph always needs someone to save him. While other turtle episodes are treated with respect and care by giving them the opportunity to show how useful they are and how independent they can be, Raph is not given the same treatment.

I miss the ol' berserker Raph. The Raph that had to deal with something evil within himself, it wasn't just anger it was something worse. How can a writer strictly base a character off of one emotional state...It makes no sense to me how they could exclude the possibility of a complex character. Raph is not just some teenager with anger issues.

[Shiro Kame]

Wow...I'm disappointed that they didn't exploit a mind-controlled Raph. Seriously, they should have taken pointers from IDW's City Fall arc.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

I'm actually not surprised by this turn of events as these episodes do follow a cerebus roller coaster. So this is likely more one of the middle episodes that occasionally through you for a loop and offer one thing and deliver the opposite.

Kind of like expecting a meal and coming away with popcorn.

Even though that Dark Raph arc was never really mention by the producers but it was just one of many things that could have been like Rahzar turning rogue, Slash being a villain, Donnie taken a leadership position that last longer then five minutes, and many many other lost opportunities.

At the very least, Bebop and Rocksteady are not just another 1 and 2 henchman, which means someone over there on that team has some imagination in "lets make these guys constantly trying to backstab Shredder".

[MCLeo28]

I don't understand how one could say Raphael didn't get sufficient development in this week's episode.

There definitely was tension built up for both Raphael and Leonardo (both evident during "the Invasion" episode) in regards to Shredder and Ciro evidently had both of them get what they wanted, a serious clash against Shredder before being the last ones to go down. Leonardo was not held in higher regard than Raphael was in the battle against Shredder even though Ciro clearly has given Leonardo more screen-time against Shredder in the past.

I think Raphael did receive sufficient development in this episode and definitely foreshadows that both Leo and Raph will be the ones to deliver the final blow against the Shredder.

[Ninjinister]

Brilliant episode. Everything was phenomenal.

I want to know more about these worms....

[Mona_Lisa]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

So, Ramboraph is right, Raph can't get have a solo episode without his "anger" being the trigger that get's him in trouble. And then super Leo comes in and saves the day. Yeah, I think I'm done with the show.

Originally Posted by snake

I'm so pissed right now. This could've been a great story arc.

Originally Posted by yellowmario27

So the dark Raph situation just lasted 1 episode? :/

Originally Posted by Mellie

It was a decent episode... I was just way too hyped from the rumors. I don't even know why that guy leaked "dark Raph" when it was such a minor thing.

Mondo Gecko looks fun.

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

What an empty unfulfilling episode. Raph gets crapped on yet again and surprise, surprise Leo saves big Ol' mean Raph from himself. Yep the writers hate Raph. That's pretty obvious. I don't think I can watch this garbage anymore.

I guess I enjoyed this episode, but man am I disappointed... On another thread someone was making fun of Raph fans saying they "were acting like they were going through some mental trauma" but in a way I am!!!!
So much lost potential... Its just wrong. And why would someone mention or leak a "Dark Raph" plot when it was a one ep. thing??? Dark Raph could have been awesome...
And supper Leo.... Grrrrrr.... Why Leo? They just make Raph seem so useless and pathetic.
The writers hate Raph.... I need to read some good fanfics to cheer myself up, Turtle turncoat anyone?

Besides, if you were really going to leave because of Raph, you'd have been gone by now, as his situation hasn't improved for the longest.

I'm not going to quit watching, but I have quit paying to watch... Use to buy EVERY ep. on amazon, now? Youtube is a wounderful thing.

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Mona_Lisa

The writers hate Raph

Yep, they sure do. There's no doubt about it. They have no problem making it known they don't care for the character. Pretty upsetting.

[Ninturtle]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

Yep, they sure do. There's no doubt about it. They have no problem making it known they don't care for the character. Pretty upsetting.

Just because they're not dealing with Raph the way you want them too doesn't mean they hate him.

[newhire13]

Edited.Edited.

[newhire13]

Originally Posted by Ninturtle

Just because they're not dealing with Raph the way you want them too doesn't mean they hate him.

Yup, truth!

[Sabacooza]

Originally Posted by Ninturtle

Just because they're not dealing with Raph the way you want them too doesn't mean they hate him.

Oh, come on now. It's pretty obvious.

[OrangeNinja1987]

Originally Posted by Ravenshell

I'm still kind of miffed that Dark Raph wasn't a full arc, but given what I've been told now about production number vs airing number and the necessity for self-contained episodes, I can see why they didn't do an arc.

Guys, it's not that the writers can't write a decent arc; it's that they aren't allowed to, because no one wants to give a **** about proper running order. They have to keep the episodes as self-contained as possible.

I don't get this. They don't want to care about proper running order so they make self-contained episodes, yet there is enough of an overall storyline that showing most of the episodes out of order would completely ruin the plot.
I don't think the writers hate Raphael (who knows, he just may be the hardest turtle to write for. I would think so.) but I don't think the running order is what is exactly the problem.
This show is aimed at children. So if Raphael isn't the most popular turtle to them or they don't find his own episodes the best, their judgment beats out the fraction of the viewership of people over 12.

[MCLeo28]

Originally Posted by Sabacooza

Oh, come on now. It's pretty obvious.

They literally foreshadowed Raphael playing a huge role in dealing the final blow to Shredder twice , not once, but twice.

He's certainly not getting bad treatment even though I will admit he's had a lack of episodes centered around him, but when they do focus on Raph, they do a helluva good job showing how amazing Raph is.

[Bauer536]

Originally Posted by newhire13

Truth. You're taking it kinda personal.

Sabacooza, you are taking this personally. We get it. You think the writers are bashing Raph. They're not. They just use him as a minor priority. I bet they love Raph, but they also want the other characters to shine. If you think about it, Raph and Mikey are good second bananas. Episodes where they're not the central focus gets them the best attention even if the story reflects on Leo or Don. I have no problem with this Raph. I still think he's a badass.

The truth is, you want him to be the main focus. You don't like Leo as much, and you can care less about Donnie, and you might want Mikey to tone it down. Be honest. If Raph got the main focus, people like me might complain there's a lack of Leo and Don. Maybe it's because this show focuses on my two favorites, and I enjoy them more. However, I'm glad to see at least Mikey and Raph having some great moments. Look at the show Firefly. Malcom Reynolds is always the center of the storylines, but Jayne Cobb is there to be on the side to be a likeable brawn who loves guns and says "Goramit." There weren't many episodes focused on him, but that's also due to the show being cancelled early. I sometimes see Raph like that on this show.

I guess the show could use some better writers this time around, but you act like this is the end of the world. There are more important things to worry about. Plus, the best Raph episodes I've seen were in Season 2: "Slash and Destroy" and "The Good, the Bad, and Casey Jones". For his character, those were some strong and enjoyable episodes. Raph during the Vision Quest was cool, and he got some focus.

The problem is, you let your expectations get the best of you. Based on the atmosphere of this series, I knew they weren't going to do a whole arc on Dark Raph. And because it was short, it doesn't mean that the writers hate him.

There were times before this show where I thought no one liked or appreciated Leo. It turns out, I was wrong. Fans do appreciate Raph, but not all of them do. You should just be happy that you're standing by your favorite character.

[senpai]

Did you guys catch all of that Dark Raph arc? Amazing or what?

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by MCLeo28

they do a helluva good job showing how amazing Raph is.

How?

*He gets turned into a plant.
*The whole reason the 'Slash & Destroy' episode took place was because of his 'stupidity and incompetence' (HE was the one who got Spike mutated, and it was his words that caused Slash to be evil/dark/hurt his brothers..so it was just Raph cleaning up his own Stupid Mistakes). It wasn't That Heroic...
*He got Mikey hurt against Snakeweed because he thought he'd be a good Leader and Failed, Miserably, at it...
*Mikey had to be the one who saved his Shell during the Punk Frogs episode.
*The reason Raph & Casey had to chase that one Foot in the 'Casey Jones' episode was because the both of them were dumb enough to let it follow them back to the lair.

(That's just the tip of the iceberg, because I can give more examples).

He's never Protected anyone yet during this whole run of Season 3.

He's just been useless...even though he's supposed to be the Protector. How is that Amazing?

[GiveMeBackMyRaphXLeo]

And... did leo just said "im not crazy abt slash"?

Maybe its just me but i think they made it on purpose...



Btw what does break free mean?

[jenna]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

How?

*He gets turned into a plant.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Raph fans (myself included) feeling disappointed by the way he is handled on the show until the plant thing happened.

It seems to me that the Within the Woods episode was very damaging to the show. I wonder how many other minor complaints we would look past were it not for the sheer stupidity of the plant thing.

I love the show and I love this Raph, but by having Raph turn into a flower with no acknowledgement of its implausibility and no lasting psychological impact, the writers really dropped the ball and have left Raph fans feeling that they somehow owe Raph a better plot arc to compensate for this.