"Secret Wars" Event To Merge Mainstream And Ultimate Marvel Universes Together

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Yeah but the funny thing is, with today's comic prices, most kids don't have the money to spend on em, or they would rather spend it on movies or video games anyway. They are barking up the wrong tree by shunting loyal older fans aside.

[plastroncafe]

Really? You think so?
Because I don't, and I say that as a Marvel fan a bit older than both you and Cyber.

I really like Kamala, but then...I've always been a fan of "Slice of Life" stories.
Give me the X-Men playing touch-no powers-football on the front law of the Xavier Institute over building punching fight action any day. Hell, the first few arcs of Wolverine and the X-men were fantastic. Love love love Fraction's run on Hawkeye, and the now cancelled new run on She-Hulk. Oooh, and Uncanny X-Force, though I'm a bit behind on that one.

Started with that title after their "Sex and Violence" miniseries. Deadpool feeding Angel slices of his flesh to keep him alive after their run in with Famine? That's a mental image that'll linger...

Anyhow, catering to fossils like us isn't going to get Marvel the money it needs to keep its print run in the black.

Comics fans are the biggest babies. Just say you don't like a thing, then don't buy a thing, and leave it at that. There's no need for personal attacks on the creators, even in hyperbole.

I mean....seriously Duckie? Wanting to shoot the author of Ms Marvel. She's actually a personal friend of mine. Feel bad about your word choice.

[FlawedCoil82]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Its rather obvious these reboots are aimed at new younger fans, mostly kids and teenagers who are getting into Marvel for the first time because of the movies. Older fans from the 90's and early 2000's are expected to move on from comics.

I disagree....I am 33 years old and this is the first time since about 1999 that I am legitimately excited about Marvel Comics again. Particularly their "X-Men '92" title, which (if they don't ruin the team or change their costumes again) would be the dream X-Men title I have been begging them to bring back for over the past 16 years or so. In fact, since they are finally going to give me back the team I loved, I am now interested in several other titles that I would like to read on the side. When the original "Age Of Apocalypse" storyline came out, I was so bitter and disgusted that they took away my beloved 90's team that I pretty much skipped reading the entire saga. Now, as long as I can keep getting all new, original stories featuring the 90's X-Men as the "main course", I am willing to give other titles ("appetizers") a chance on the side.

In addition to "X-Men '92", I also have my eyes set on "Age Of Apocalypse", "X-Tinction Agenda", "A-Force", "Years Of Future Past" and "Inferno". But if Marvel tries to destroy the 90's X-Men again (like they did in their absurd "X-Men Forever" title a few years back) then my Marvel support will once again disappear. What worries me is that Chris Sims is known for not liking many of the 90's uniforms and if he tries to change them (or make a mockery of that version of the team), then that will be the end of my interest in any of the new Marvel Secret Wars books. Keeping the 90's X-Men team around in their flawless/familiar 90's uniforms is key if Marvel wants any of my money for that or any other titles.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Sh** like this makes me feel a little better that TMNT never belonged to one of the big two comic companies.

It feels really good knowing that the biggest problems of TMNT comics can be counted on one hand:

#1. The sh***y "Guest Era" of Mirage Volume 1
#2. Volume 4 never being finished
#3. Tales Volume 2 never finishing any of the good stories
#4. Steven Murphy's hot and bothered environmental lovefest
#5. Raphael never progressing past "Wolverine in a half-shell" (unless you count Image TMNT, which I do)

[plastroncafe]

Those are your biggest TMNT problems?
Huh. Interesting. They wouldn't be mine.

One of the things that I think Marvel has always excelled at, over say DC, is that for the most part their characters are people...and not say iconic buildings.
There's more freedom with people. I loved the idea of the Ultimate Universe, because one solid universe is too unwieldy and I think that level of intersection is too stifling to creativity.

I don't want Batman to always be Bruce Wayne. Because Bruce? Is a dude. And people die eventually. Green Lantern shouldn't just be Hal Jordan.
There's so many awesome stories that can/should be told...and with different universes that opens up infinite possibilities.

Are they all going to be awesome stories? No, of course not. But they're going to be different, and there's excitement to be found in the gamble. If all we got was the same old same old...well, that's great if you like stagnation.

But with this? Where they're merging the universes? It makes me a little sad. Here's hoping some good stories will come from it to make it worth the effort.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Those are your biggest TMNT problems?
Huh. Interesting. They wouldn't be mine.

TMNT comics. Trust me, if it were the franchise as a whole, the list would indeed be quite different.

[FlawedCoil82]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

I don't want Batman to always be Bruce Wayne. Because Bruce? Is a dude. And people die eventually. Green Lantern shouldn't just be Hal Jordan.
There's so many awesome stories that can/should be told...and with different universes that opens up infinite possibilities.

Are they all going to be awesome stories? No, of course not. But they're going to be different, and there's excitement to be found in the gamble. If all we got was the same old same old...well, that's great if you like stagnation.

See, Ive never been able to wrap my brain around this mindset. When I fall in love with a franchise, it is because I love it EXACTLY the way it is at that moment when it caught my interest. Small changes over time are fine, but I MUST have that constant familiarity and connection to it in order to stay a fan. I don't want "realism" from comic characters who are bound to the same depressing facts of life that plague reality (such as groing old and dying). I want fantastic escapes from reality.

I would NEVER wish to fall in love with a girl and then hope that she would entirely change from being who she was when I first fell in love with her. I hold any franchise I love to that same belief. You seem to love the CONCEPT of Batman but not Bruce Wayne as Batman. I don't love the concept of the X-Men or TMNT. I love the exact 90's version of the X-Men or the exact version of TMNT. Replace the turtles with 4 new animals (even if they share the same traits as the turtles), or have new mutants replace the X-Men team with new characters or costumes and I lose all interest, despite the fact the new team may share the same mission that the previous version had. It doesn't matter. If they are not the same characters or do not look like the same characters I fell in love with, then I could not care less about their story. I fall in love with a visual franchise (such as comics) when it is "perfect" in my eyes. Once it is to that level, drastic visual or character changes can ONLY ruin it or take it down.

[plastroncafe]

See to me, that mindset sounds so sad. because the things I love I love because they are dynamic, not because they are forever trapped in amber. If I want to read Eastman and Laird's take on the turtles I go to my longboxes. They're not going anywhere. the last thing I want is every turtle story to be city at war or the river.

The last thing I want is for every x-men story to be like the Dark Phoenix saga. I'm sick of Scott and Logan fighting for Jean's affections.

I love characters sure, but I'm much more interested in the world that they all live in and I would much rather play with that world then keep it and the characters who live in it mint on card.

What I find funny is that you seem to believe that I don't love Bruce Wayne because I would be interested in seeing someone else play Batman. Why can't the both happen. Why do we have to limit our story to that one person? And...who exactly is going to go around burning the previous 40 some odd years of comics to completely wipe Bruce Wayne from popular culture. No one, that's who. Because people are always going to want to write stories about Bruce Wayne as Batman. There's always new ways to talk about a crazy guy with HUGE daddy shaped abandonment issues.

This is why I have usually enjoyed the Marvel Universe over the DC's, because I prefer stories about people living in a world then watching buildings fight each other over and over and over again. That just doesn't interest me in the slightest. Superman. Batman. Sometimes Wonder Woman...they're buildings, and are rarely characters because no one will let them grow and change. They're forever stuck exactly where they are, not unlike Bart Simpson.

I didn't like Man of Steel, but it least it DID something with Superman. It took a chance, granted that chance didn't really pay out, depending on who you talk to...but at least they tried.

I'm not trying to take 9os X Men away from you, though having re-read them recently I can't say as though there's much left in there for me but nostalgia. I was in Jr High and Highschool during the 90s...and if there's one place I'd never want to go back to...it's Jr High and Highschool.

If you want to stay forever locked in your glory days of yesteryear, more power to you....but...damn is that so not for me. I'm no where even near the person I was then, and that's far from a bad thing.

[Brodie]

Holy ****, FlawedCoil, your view sounds boring as all get out.

If it were up to you, we'd never get characters like Terry McGuinness, or Tim Drake. Venom would never exist. By that accord, your version of the Flash still wears a silver plate on his head.

[plastroncafe]

Imagine if Paul Dini had that mindset. We'd never have gotten Harley Quinn or Renee Montoya.

And while I believe Frank Miller is kind of stuck in his Highschool Glory Days, if he had this conservator mentality we'd never have gotten The Dark Night. Same kind of goes for Tim Burton too, actually. Stuck in Glory Day Mode, but at least he gave us the first Batman movie before his record started to skip.

[Cure]

Originally Posted by FlawedCoil82

I would NEVER wish to fall in love with a girl and then hope that she would entirely change from being who she was when I first fell in love with her. I hold any franchise I love to that same belief.

Franchises aren't people, yo. They're not gonna get their feelings hurt.

[Brodie]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Imagine if Paul Dini had that mindset. We'd never have gotten Harley Quinn or Renee Montoya.

And while I believe Frank Miller is kind of stuck in his Highschool Glory Days, if he had this conservator mentality we'd never have gotten The Dark Night. Same kind of goes for Tim Burton too, actually. Stuck in Glory Day Mode, but at least he gave us the first Batman movie before his record started to skip.

Its mind boggling that he addresses the 90's X-Men, when that's....which numerical iteration of that team? The Jim Lee/Claremont X-Men was a reboot/relaunch! The thing he doesn't like or want.....whaaaaaaaaaaat?

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Brodie

Its mind boggling that he addresses the 90's X-Men, when that's....which numerical iteration of that team? The Jim Lee/Claremont X-Men was a reboot/relaunch! The thing he doesn't like or want.....whaaaaaaaaaaat?

At least the third, at very least. And that's not counting shifts to/from Avengers, X-Factor, X-Force, etc.

And yeah...I didn't want to TOUCH on the sheer levels of objectification that went along with comparing a future love with a franchise. Because...damn. Just damn.

[FlawedCoil82]

All I am saying is if I am not getting the version I loved REPLACED with something else, then I can live with it. I am not a big Batman fan, but I can assure you that I would find it very depressing and feel betrayed in a "bait and switch" to see any one but Bruce Wayne be Batman, unless they kept Bruce around permanently and kept other Batman interpretations in their own titles. When they would try to force someone replacing Bruce as Batman, that is where I would have a big problem. I would be interested in seeing Bruce be Batman. Yet I would have zero interest in seeing anyone else be "Batman". They would only be imposters.

As far as the 90's X-Men go, I want NEW stories featuring that team. There are very few comics I enjoy enough to read over and over. When I look at them now, it is strictly to admire the art work. That is why I am willing to give AOA a chance because this time it will not be replacing the version of the team I love. But yes, I am a very firm believer that you should not try to fix what is not broken. In my opinion this "Secret Wars" is Marvel's way of trying to please everybody, and that is what they shoulda done all along so those of us who only care about certain versions were not shut out or forced to accept changes that werent wanted or needed.

The X-Men never appealed to me before in the 80's until I saw how magnificent they looked in the 90s with #1. They suddenly "clicked" with me when I saw them and thats when I became obsessed with their look and wanted to read and learn everything about them until Marvel allowed others to come in and corrupt them. I feel there are tons of untold stories and potential for the 90s X-Men team that was robbed from them before. After all these years, seeing that team return in this title will be like seeing a dear friend return from the dead. "X-Men '92" will give me my definitive version of the team while all the other titles will appeal to others. I feel Secret Wars is the best case scenario for the comics, as Marvel has had nothing to offer me of interest over the past decade.

[CyberCubed]

Isn't that just nostalgia though? Of course everyone is going to favor whichever version they "grew up with" or became a really big fan of. You can say that for any series that went through multiple series or reboots.

[Jester]

Yeah, that'd be like constant grumbling about Turtle nostrils or Russian Rocksteadys......wait.

[CyberCubed]

Those are designs, that's not the same.

Also is Tony Stark even Iron Man in this new series? I read the free comic book day issue and I can't tell if this is a "new" Iron Man or if its still Tony.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Those are designs, that's not the same.

Rocksteady being Russian is a design element? News to me....

[plastroncafe]

There's no delusion like entitled fanboy delusion.

If only we could some how...transform the strength of that delusion into something that could operate a turbine.
Think of the power we could generate! Wind, Solar, and Geothermal power production would pale by comparison.

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Um, how about- no. Adding teens to a team of adult heroes is NOT a good idea. Especially THAT many of them. They don't take orders well, for one thing, nor do they often think before they act. Recipe for disaster.

As for Kamala- I was at my library this weekend for FCBD, and lo and behold they had the vol. 1 TPB for the "new" Ms. Marvel. I read it in about an hour- all five issues I think it was. Hated it. The characters were the most stereotypical racial tropes I've EVER seen in a comic book! Zoe, the jock (can't remember his name, so I'll just call him Flash Thompson redux), Kamala herself and her friend "Kiki" (though I gather she doesn't like that particular nickname, but I can't even remember her real one) and her father, mother, and brother ALL being the "typical" Muslim family- with "typical" roles. Ugh.

I was unimpressed from page one, but kept HOPING it would get better. No such luck. By the end, I wanted to take back that last hour or so I'd been reading it. Also, her powers- kind of suck. She's like the lost love-child of Mystique and Mr. Fantastic, with some Giant-Man thrown in. Really lame and boring, unimaginative, and- I just couldn't see the appeal of the book at all. On top of it all, they made her a HUGE geek-trope, too. Racial stereotyped mega-geek hero -teen? Please, gods, kill this now. And the "source/cause" of her powers was never even explained. The mist didn't seem to affect anyone ELSE, so why should it do that to her? Or was it because she drank alcohol? (Which she spit out anyway, so it shouldn't even factor in....) or made a wish? Whatever, it made NO sense. So many bad ideas, I couldn't help but want to shoot the writer.

If this is the direction Marvel is going now, I pity the fans.....

Racial stereotyped? How is Kamala's family racially stereotyped? Cause she has strict parents that are religious??(they do exist, my parents are religious and watched what I did)

how do you want her family to act like? How would you prefer Kamala act like?

Have you ever met a Muslim family before? (no seriously have you? maybe I'm ignorant)

Ya know maybe I'm young but Kamala is someone I can relate too.....you can have your old characters I'll take my new ones.

also she's an inhuman.