Official Ep Discussion: S3 Ep16: "Clash of the Mutanimals"

[CyberCubed]

I hope to god nobody who works at Nick is reading this thread. I don't want them to see how whiny this fandom is for believing something that was never in the cards.

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I hope to god nobody who works at Nick is reading this thread. I don't want them to see how whiny this fandom is for believing something that was never in the cards.

How is this fanbase whining? We just want better-written episodes. Is that too much to ask?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Purple Kraken

How is this fanbase whining? We just want better-written episodes. Is that too much to ask?

This was a very well written episode. All the whining has to do with people deluding themselves into thinking some sort of "Dark Raph" story arc was going to happen for some reason.

I'm willing to bet if we never got that snippet nobody would be complaining.

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

This was a very well written episode. All the whining has to do with people deluding themselves into thinking some sort of "Dark Raph" story arc was going to happen for some reason.

I'm willing to bet if we never got that snippet nobody would be complaining.

To you, it might have been a good episode, but for some people, myself included, this episode was terribly written. I'm not deluding myself, CyberCubed. I just have a different viewpoint.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I hope to god nobody who works at Nick is reading this thread. I don't want them to see how whiny this fandom is for believing something that was never in the cards.

The irony is strong with this one.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I'm willing to bet if we never got that snippet nobody would be complaining.

No, I'd just be complaining about the writing, character development, and zero arcs for characters like Raphael. Or stories that were dropped that could have been potentially good, like an on-going feud with Slash among other ones.

I think those are more worthy complaints than stuff like 'OMG, Bebop isn't Black! Wah!' Or 'Hun doesn't look exactly the same as the 2003 show! Oh, Snap, call the Paramedics because Cybercubed is having both a heart attack and a Seizure'.

You're not one to talk, bud.

(At least with, say, the 2014 film and the whole 'not asian Shredder' when all of that was doing around...a big part of it was that I'm not a fan of William Fichtner as an actor. Hell, if it was someone like James Woods or Powers Boothe, I would've been fine).

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by Ramboraph4life aka Matt

Plus it's not even a good Raph episode on its' own...it just reflects poorly on Raph (yet again...just like the episode where he was turned into a plant).

He got himself mind controlled, and he didn't even break out of it himself. Leo had to come in and save the day to snap him out of it. It just reflects poorly on Raph (even Mikey's episode, with the Punk Frogs, had him doing stuff like Save Raph...which helps the character and makes him appear useful and ultimately Worth A Crap).

This, on the other hand, is another edition of Raph needing someone to save him like he's a Damsel in Distress...once again. Even though I Thought he was supposed to be the 'Protector' of the group, but it's definitely not the case during Season 3.

Actually, this episode felt more like a Leo episode than a Raph one.

Originally Posted by Mona_Lisa

I guess I enjoyed this episode, but man am I disappointed... On another thread someone was making fun of Raph fans saying they "were acting like they were going through some mental trauma" but in a way I am!!!!
So much lost potential... Its just wrong. And why would someone mention or leak a "Dark Raph" plot when it was a one ep. thing??? Dark Raph could have been awesome...
And supper Leo.... Grrrrrr.... Why Leo? They just make Raph seem so useless and pathetic.
The writers hate Raph.... I need to read some good fanfics to cheer myself up, Turtle turncoat anyone?


I'm not going to quit watching, but I have quit paying to watch... Use to buy EVERY ep. on amazon, now? Youtube is a wounderful thing.

I stopped losing interest about the beaver episode. I caught some later episodes on Nick, but like you, I stopped buying from Amazon with the last episode of season 2. And I'm getting the sentiment that the producers/writers in charge don't really know how to write a decent Raph. Mikey would be a close second. Shame we can't get a series that can focus on all 4. We have writers capable of showcasing and developing 6 or more characters in the Marvel movies, where each can shine and show their importance, in a mere 2 hour movie, but the TMNT fans can't get equal focus and respect for the 4 main characters, in a TV show. Well, maybe next incarnation will be more to our liking.

Originally Posted by jenna

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Raph fans (myself included) feeling disappointed by the way he is handled on the show until the plant thing happened.

It seems to me that the Within the Woods episode was very damaging to the show. I wonder how many other minor complaints we would look past were it not for the sheer stupidity of the plant thing.

I love the show and I love this Raph, but by having Raph turn into a flower with no acknowledgement of its implausibility and no lasting psychological impact, the writers really dropped the ball and have left Raph fans feeling that they somehow owe Raph a better plot arc to compensate for this.

Yeah, you may be onto something. I loved Raph just fine for season 1 and most of season 2, it's season 3 that has dropped the ball big time for me. The flower Raph in particular was so stupid. And even with Raph set aside, I usually can find something that I still like about the show, but season 3 has been just so awful, with everyone being OOC, the plots uninteresting, the jokes not funny. The lack of Karai I think has really hurt it, I found her to be more interesting than April. The overall show has gotten dumbed down (season 1 was actually witty and sharp, for a kids cartoon) I mean, when watching A Foot Too Big, with family, usually the family loved watching the TMNT, but that one episode had so many go "WTF?"

[GiveMeBackMyRaphXLeo]

Originally Posted by JH24

I know what you're getting at. And...no. It wasn't meant that way.

that's why I said maybe its jut me... its really seem to me that they r using it as a pun

[ImmaAxolotl]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

Actually, this episode felt more like a Leo episode than a Raph one.

Now that you mention it, it does. Gosh dang it, Nick!

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I hope to god nobody who works at Nick is reading this thread. I don't want them to see how whiny this fandom is for believing something that was never in the cards.

HA! Says the guy that is personally responsible for running Ciro out of the forums!

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

HA! Says the guy that is personally responsible for running Ciro out of the forums!

Oh yeah, I almost forgot he did that....

[Warhorse]

Originally Posted by MCLeo28

I don't understand how one could say Raphael didn't get sufficient development in this week's episode.

There definitely was tension built up for both Raphael and Leonardo (both evident during "the Invasion" episode) in regards to Shredder and Ciro evidently had both of them get what they wanted, a serious clash against Shredder before being the last ones to go down. Leonardo was not held in higher regard than Raphael was in the battle against Shredder even though Ciro clearly has given Leonardo more screen-time against Shredder in the past.

I think Raphael did receive sufficient development in this episode and definitely foreshadows that both Leo and Raph will be the ones to deliver the final blow against the Shredder.

If this happens, I will buy the whole series on BluRay. But until then, I still don't think I have it in me to watch the show, because when I do, I just feel disappointed. No enjoyment like I did the first two seasons.

Originally Posted by MCLeo28

They literally foreshadowed Raphael playing a huge role in dealing the final blow to Shredder twice , not once, but twice.

He's certainly not getting bad treatment even though I will admit he's had a lack of episodes centered around him, but when they do focus on Raph, they do a helluva good job showing how amazing Raph is.

It's not so much lack of episodes, it's just, whats the point of this being on the team? He is usually the muscle, but we have seen nothing to prove that in the series. Leo is the clear leader/most skilled/negotiator/litigator of the group. Donnie is the brains/tech/and sometimes tactical of the group. Mikey is supposed to be the fastest and most naturally talented, and he did save his brothers in Dimension X, as well as being the most compassionate of the group, hence why Leatherhead is such a good friend for them. But, what has Raph done for the team? I think that's what hurts the most, not that he isn't getting the focus, but, he is more or less, the butt of jokes lately, and that he seems, useless. Best thing he has going for him right now is that he may be the most fearless of the four, be the first to jump into a fight, and while fighting, Leo uses the moment to see where the foe's weaknesses are.

Originally Posted by Jester

The irony is strong with this one.

If this was the type of forum that I could give multiple likes to, your quote would have exceeded my likes for the day! You had me ROTFL with this one!

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

HA! Says the guy that is personally responsible for running Ciro out of the forums!

He's was more like the straw that broke the camel's back.

[MCLeo28]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

If this happens, I will buy the whole series on BluRay. But until then, I still don't think I have it in me to watch the show, because when I do, I just feel disappointed. No enjoyment like I did the first two seasons.

That's understandable.

It's not so much lack of episodes, it's just, whats the point of this being on the team? He is usually the muscle, but we have seen nothing to prove that in the series. Leo is the clear leader/most skilled/negotiator/litigator of the group. Donnie is the brains/tech/and sometimes tactical of the group. Mikey is supposed to be the fastest and most naturally talented, and he did save his brothers in Dimension X, as well as being the most compassionate of the group, hence why Leatherhead is such a good friend for them. But, what has Raph done for the team? I think that's what hurts the most, not that he isn't getting the focus, but, he is more or less, the butt of jokes lately, and that he seems, useless. Best thing he has going for him right now is that he may be the most fearless of the four, be the first to jump into a fight, and while fighting, Leo uses the moment to see where the foe's weaknesses are.

Well, that's where our perspectives on Raphael differ. Raphael was shown to be very protective over his brothers, valued them above anything else, and has shown compassion. This is seen in Slash and Destroy where while Leo was missing, he denied Slash's wishes even though he was one of his best friends in favor of helping Mikey find Donnie. He later tended to Donnie and Mikey's wounds and eventually came to realization that he would have to confront Slash in order to protect his brothers. Even after getting the snot beaten out of him and witnessing his two weakened brothers attempt to fend off Slash gave him the motivation to keep fighting to protect his brothers. We later see Leo get beaten by Slash, causing Raphael to almost burst as he witnessed Leo almost getting knocked out yet despite that, controlled his anger and did what he had to do to defeat Slash, even if it meant almost killing him.

In the Serpent Hunt , Steranko pummeled both Raphael and Mikey yet Raphael mustered up the courage and rage (admittedly) to push back Steranko and managed to protect both of them. Even when he was blinded, he attempted to push back Steranko as a means to protect Karai even though he was the one who had the worst relationship with her out of all the Turtles.

It's not just his compassion that shines, it's also his ability to convey to Leo that overcoming your emotions is sometimes what's needed (Raph's dominant personality). Despite contrary belief in Never say Xever (is that the correct name?), sometimes overcoming your emotions is what's needed if it does result in a desirable outcome. This is seen when the Technodrome attacks the crew which eventually leads to Karai saving them and forming an alliance with the Turtles. It's at that moment that Raphael suggests to Leo that this is the proper time to strike Shredder despite Leo's reluctance in doing so considering his crush. It was also seen in The Alien Agenda , where Raphael clashed with Karai and attempted Leo to convince Leo not to give into Karai's cunning tricks and eventually Leo admits that Raphael was correct and that he jeopardized the team because of it. It was also seen towards the end of the episode where Raphael was correct all along in which Leo concedes to this.

It was also seen in Follow the Leader where Raphael's dominant personality shines as Donnie and Mikey followed Raphael's perspective on things and listened to Raphael instead of listening to Leo. This was also seen earlier in New Girl in Town where Raphael led the crew instead of Leo due to Raphael's dominant personality.

There's more to Raph than meets the eye. I can certainly post more examples if need be, but that's all I felt the need to post for the time being. I will admit, I can honestly see why the positive aspects of Raphael are easy to overlook.

[senpai]

Originally Posted by Warhorse

HA! Says the guy that is personally responsible for running Ciro out of the forums!

What happened now? This was before my time on the Drome. Tell me!

[victory_angel]

Also Operation: Break Out

Donnie is told flat out by Raph that his efforts to gain April's attention were pathetic to the point where he wanted no part of it. However when Leo and the others are racing to find Donnie, Raph admits that this happened because of him.

And after they've they returned, Raph makes up for everything by telling April that Kirby's rescue was all Donnie's doing and even stars over acting what happened as a way of apologizing.

In Mutation Situation

When Donnie is knocked out of the sky, Raph dies gasp his brothers name in horror. And then when Donnie starts to rush after April, Raph stops him and says "Let her go, man."

Also in the Squirrelinoids episode when Mikey is drowning Raph is the one who who knocks aside the squirrelinoid that was trying kill Mikey. And afterwards he smiles fondly and says "I'm glad you're okay, little brother."
Raph thus far is the only Turtle who has used "Little Brother" for Mikey thus far.

In Mutagen Man Unleashed while Donnie is sadly processing all that's happened he slings a comforting arm around Donnie's shoulders and says "You did what you had to do."

In Wrath of Tiger Claw

Raph is the one who is cradling a wounded Mikey in his arms when Leo is saying they have to go after Karai.

[ssjup81]

Hey guys. I finally was able to watch this episode. All I can say is...wow! I really really REALLY liked it. The subtle jokes were nice and it was great to see the Mutanimals again. I really liked the part where Mikey pointed out that the cartoons they watch usually mirror their missions and I loved how Leo was saying that Mikey was reading too much into a cartoon. Think that was a shot at the audience? lol I also liked how Mikey was like something was off with Slash and Rockwell.

That aside, after watching it I wonder about Raph. One thing I noticed for the North Hampton eps was how laidback and disturbingly mild Raph's temper was. He was patient for the entirety of it and I was saying, maybe it's because country life and fresh air is good for him. Now that he's cooped back up in the sewers, seems they're going to start letting that side show again.

Oh the worms were creepy and poor Raph! It was like he was being tortured.

Anywho, I know this is a long shot, but when I heard they were planning on doing something regarding mind control and Raph, I was thinking back to how Plan 10 maybe foreshadowed this. Raph's impatience caused his mind to get swapped with a Kraang. Now he was brainwashed temporarily. Also, I have this feeling that we're going to get a Dark Raph arc at some point or either one of them will be mind-controlled again, only this time, Shredder'll be successful and the others will have to break said brother free of his mind control. I just don't see this going away. Raph's fighting with Shredder, while practicing and stuff....I dunno. Maybe it's foreshadowing that the one who will definitely take Shredder out will be Raph and speaking of that, I found it interesting how both Leo and Donnie weren't fazed by Raph almost killing Shredder and was urging of him to do so (before realizing he was being mind-controlled). I dunno....I just have this feeling this plot will be revisited in the future. I couldn't see it getting dropped or never worked on again. Shredder is adamant to get Karai under his control again, why would he stop working towards that.

Other things I liked...Mikey fighting Tigerclaw. Mikey in general for this ep was good. Writers, keep Mikey like this...no more goofing off to make ultimate retromutagen. lol I liked the fight at the end with everyone going up against Shredder and Pigeon Pete was nice to see again. I like him and his goofiness.

Something I still don't like all that much....Shredder's strength. It's like he has no weaknesses (unless it's definitely his eye....oh man! Raph better take him out! Don't ask...just thinking back to previous incarnations where Raph has the tendency to lose an eye or injure his eye and Mikey, his arm... lol). Oh, I guess Karai kinda counts. I just feel that this version of Shredder is overpowered to an extent. Getting down to it, someone should've used Shredder's head as a soccerball while he was watching the fight. lol

So yeah...that's about all I can think of right off for this ep. I will say this though...it'd definitely make one of my favorite season 3 eps list.

[Meliwen]

I too wonder if Shredder training Raph will have any sort of significance later on or if it was foreshadowing something. Unless it was just meant to show how much control Shredder had over him at that point in time, but I hope for something more.

[mexichrist83]

Originally Posted by senpai

What happened now? This was before my time on the Drome. Tell me!

Seconded. I've been a member of this forum since 2012 but very on and off with participation until recently. I must have missed this.

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I hope to god nobody who works at Nick is reading this thread. I don't want them to see how whiny this fandom is for believing something that was never in the cards.

Originally Posted by Warhorse

HA! Says the guy that is personally responsible for running Ciro out of the forums!

Originally Posted by senpai

What happened now? This was before my time on the Drome. Tell me!

Ciro used to frequent the boards back in 2012 when the first season originally aired up until the weekend Baxter Stockman made his debut, and Cubed wouldn't shut up about how he preferred the 4Kids interpretation of Baxter over the new one.