What DO you want, then?

[Shark_Blade]

I'm fine if they want to go the bloody, gory Mirage route. But for now, I'm very pleased with the OT route they are taking.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

I'm fine if they want to go the bloody, gory Mirage route. But for now, I'm very pleased with the OT route they are taking.

^^ point proven. Thanks Sharkie.

[Bry]

We've been through this a few times already, but what the hell. I posted out a fan-casting/plot pitch kinda thing here a while back. Gimme an excuse to repost it and I'll repost it.

And I wrote out a brief trilogy outline in this thread last year, which I mostly kinda stand by? Anyway:

At its core, Mirage. Play out the Yoshi/Saki backstory to give emotional weight to everything. Maybe make Yoshi and Splinter the same character to simplify that, and then let the basic Mirage plot play out with some aspects of 4Kids and IDW peppered in - Karai as the Foot's second-in-command with a conflicted sense of honour like in 4Kids, Baxter as a schemer working for TCRI, connecting him to the ooze, and April as an intern a la IDW, and Casey meets a runaway Raph like in the Mirage comics and the 1990 movie.

The second movie could have Baxter as the lead villain, trying to kill April after she discovers his true nature, which of course draws the Turtles into it. It'd also reveal the truth about TCRI and the Turtles' origins (whoo Utroms!).

The third/final movie would be City at War. The Turtles and Karai are forced into a truce to bring order to the city after the Shredder's death leaves a power vacuum in the NYC underworld. Sticking really close to the Mirage original. Tackle the whole "cycle of vengeance" theme in a really thoughtful and action-packed way.

That's how I'd do it.

Basically... don't mess with what works. The Mirage comics made a great outline for the 1990 movie, and they still work as a rock-solid story. Update some stuff, take in some elements from more contemporary versions like the 4Kids show, the Nick show, the IDW comics, but keep the focus where it should be - the themes and the characters are laid out very well in the original material, and that should be absorbed and considered first of all.

[Walkabout]

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

What I would like:

- no Bay attached to the project at all, or Nemec/Applebaum. They're not the right people for this property.
- ninja fighting and focus on the Turtles at least equal to the 1990 film
- no sexist treatment of April
- coherent, cohesive story and original plot which doesn't retread the exact same ground as previous films; we know the origin, we don't need another "set up" movie to explain who everybody is
- a strong, fun soundtrack with some memorable songs
- well shot with no use of the current aggravating trends like shaky jump cuts and lens flares
- emphasis on practical effects where possible, using CG to complement
- good production design (inc. Turtle design)
- casting of people with strong acting/stunt/VA chops
- more mature tone; not necessarily UltraGrittyDark with gore and f-bombs a-flyin', but less kiddified than say, SoTO.

This sounds pretty good to me.

Platinum Dunes just took TMNT and put it through the Transformers grinder machine...TMNT isn't hot cars, hot women and explosions.

[plastroncafe]

A good script written by a single screen writer
a director with a solid vision
a passing mark on the Bechdel, Sexy Lamp, and Mako Mori tests

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

A good script written by a single screen writer
a director with a solid vision
a passing mark on the Bechdel, Sexy Lamp, and Mako Mori tests

I googled the last two, but didn't come across concise examples of them. Care to elaborate?

[neatoman]

Well it's simple what I want, a story that makes sense and decently developed characters. That's the ticket to make sure any movie is at least passable.

Spoiler:

Oh and this just my own gripe, no reporter crap with April. I didn't think it made sense to have her be a reporter back in the FW cartoon, it amounted to nothing in the Archie series and I only accept it in the first movie because the budget could not allow for Mousers. I know a lot of people disagree with me but I don't think April should be a reporter, there's a reason why both Nickelodeon and IDW both ignore like 4Kids did before them.

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

I googled the last two, but didn't come across concise examples of them. Care to elaborate?

The sexy lamp test is a test of female presence in media. If a female character can be removed from the story and replaced by a sexy lamp—if, that is, the female character does nothing and says nothing that is relevant to the story, with the possible exception of existing as a motivating factor or quest object—then the story fails the test. If that is the case, in the words of Kelly Sue DeConnick (who originated the test), the story creator is "a ****ing hack".

EX: Pretty much Megan Fox's character in the Transformers movies. She was a sexy lamp. Stood around and looked pretty. That's it. Also was a "conquest item" for Shia.

The Mako Mori test is a media test which analyzes films along the following lines:

a) at least one female character;

b) who gets her own narrative arc;

c) that is not about supporting a man’s story.

EX: Basically also Megan Fox's character in the Transformers movies, the opposite of Mako Mori.

Funnily enough, she kinda sorta passes these two tests in the TMNT movie though, despite her character being written as SO GODDAMN DUMB AND AWFUL AT HER JOB.

Because the Ninja Turtles movie was basically her story, beginning to end. She's responsible for the Turtle's and Splinter's survival as a kid, her father is the one killed(sorta) by White Shredder, she's investigating them(poorly but still doing it), gets fired, she gets the final blow on the villain, saving the day.

Although...not too sure that it counts as a narrative arc, as she didn't really grow or change as a person. She lost her job though and didn't get it back, so maybe that counts.

Don't think she passed the Bechdel test though. If you count the Turtles as the characters she's talking about as "men" when she discusses them with Whoopi Goldberg and her roommate. If not, she passed that too.

Despite being terribly written and acted.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by TrickOrTreater

Funnily enough, she kinda sorta passes these two tests in the TMNT movie though, despite her character being written as SO GODDAMN DUMB AND AWFUL AT HER JOB.

Although...not too sure that it counts as a narrative arc, as she didn't really grow or change as a person. She lost her job though and didn't get it back, so maybe that counts.

Seems reasonable enough.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by TrickOrTreater

Although...not too sure that it counts as a narrative arc, as she didn't really grow or change as a person. She lost her job though and didn't get it back, so maybe that counts.

I watched the extra scene on the blu-ray and she made a reportage with Vernon about the destruction. The turtles even drive with their car around the scene.
So she did got her job back.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I watched the extra scene on the blu-ray and she made a reportage with Vernon about the destruction. The turtles even drive with their car around the scene.
So she did got her job back.

That's not in the cut, though.

She might be back into her job in Half-Shell, but the first movie ended as far as the finished cut is concerned; unemployed.

[IndigoErth]

Putting that one to the Bechdel test almost gives me a headache.

Requires at least two women characters: Uh... sorta? Two were in it for like three minutes. One to give the plot a small push forward, while the other could have been that lamp.

Talk to each other: In a very basic sense... Plot reasons. Room mate never really said much.

About something other than men: Er, yes and no? Heavily human-like humanoid characters that can interact equally as any other person; prob count as men. But suppose it passes because the discussion wasn't from that angle. However, only way a second or third film won't fail it is if the Turtles never have another female friend and/or she never knows April.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

What I would not go see is a full-blown Mirage tale, with the gore, blood, and grit of 300. It personally holds no interest for me, I've seen enough frank miller angst-ridden bloodfests to last me a lifetime.

lmao sorry but..... lmao. There is no more or less gore, blood and grit in the Mirage comics than any other comic nowadays. Comparing Mirage to 300 is a gross exxageration. It's just you guys are so used to cutesey wutesey turtles that rarely cause so much as a bruise to the bad guys that seeing them actually draw a drop of blood in the comic is suddenly considered a bloodfest.

[plastroncafe]

Wow. Seriously? Comparing 300 to Mirage Vol 1?
That's uh...that's special right there, is what that is.

[pennydreadful]

You know what this thread title makes me think of?

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Wow. Seriously? Comparing 300 to Mirage Vol 1?
That's uh...that's special right there, is what that is.

Half the people who draw a thick line between Mirage and their TMNT of choice, never even read the damn thing.

I mean *I'm* not in love with it, but it's fine. It's just not my kinda comic book. But at least I've read most of it. I notice a lot of people haven't.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Half the people who draw a thick line between Mirage and their TMNT of choice, never even read the damn thing.

I mean *I'm* not in love with it, but it's fine. It's just not my kinda comic book. But at least I've read most of it. I notice a lot of people haven't.

OH it's certainly not for everyone. Hell, it's my canon of choice and even I will willingly admit that it's far from perfect.

But...seriously...300?
Not on its darkest day could it ever come close to the pornography that is"We will fight in the shade."

Well, maybe this one:

[Leo656]

What it kind of is, is I grew up reading super-heroes and I like my comic books as completely over-the-top and dense with that type of stuff as possible, and for other types of stories I read other things. I think TMNT works just fine as a comic book, but the comic books aren't my favorite way to experience TMNT. If that makes any sense.

It feels like, in comics, they kind of limit the types of stories they can tell with TMNT, in a strong attempt to completely avoid being like a "traditional super-hero comic". There's times reading Mirage where you can almost feel the reigns being pulled hard when stories start to "creep" into that territory. Whereas in the cartoons and other media, they're more like "Eh, just do whatever", like there's fewer "rules" involved.

[plastroncafe]

I'm in it for the Slice of Life stuff, personally.
And that goes for pretty much most of my comic enjoyment. It's great and all that these characters can destroy a city with a thought, but...what do they do on a stray Monday night when it's cold and rainy?

Characters should be more than a list of stats, and stories should be more than body counts and property damage calculations.

My favorite Mirage stories, heck my favorite stories regardless of publisher, gave me characters to root for. Not just...pecs and pouches.

I want my turtles to be hideous freaks of nature, in the shadows because...they have absolutely no idea how to interact with people...unless it's hurting them. Because they've been trained to hurt them.

[Wildcat]

I've always wanted a continuation where the turtles are older and Shredder stayed defeated. Maybe have Karai be the new Shredder or some other threat rises.

I don't think this will happen though. Not for a really long time. The movies and cartoon are meant to appeal to everyone. Keeping the same villains and plotlines is what's most memorable to the public.

Even if Nick gave up the franchise or a new studio made separate movies they'd most likely start over from the beginning again...turtles meet April, rise from the sewer, mutagen origin etc...