Batman V. Superman: Dawn Of Justice

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

I completely disagree. Snyder Isn't that smart.

That's like suggesting the sequel to 300 would have apologized for the existence of the 300. Maybe Sucker Punch 2 was planned to explain the events of SP 1.

No, bloody way. You buy that, I got swamp land you might be interested in.

And seriously, I don't need MOS explained to me. FFS, I understand exactly what Snyder wanted to say, but he didn't say it well, and what he did say, was idiotic.

My dad died slowly saving a dog.
My other dad is a living hologram who forgot to invite mom.
Don't think of others, just do you.
You can always punch your way out of a problem, especially laser problems.
Let's all terraform the planet, that way nobody will be super, including us!
My planet exploded, and all I got was this lousy Codex.
I'm inexplicably carrying all the genes of all the krypts, but there are 0 girl krypts left to get freaky with.
Now that I made a big mess, I'ma gonna go and hide out with my new GF, and act like nothing happened.
When the military follows me, I bust their sh*t up fast son!
I'm exactly like Jesus, because I'm nothing like Jesus.
I'm not very good at anything yet, but I'm learning! Oh WELL!
Was it helpful, me coming to Earth? Did things get better?
I have emotional issues. When I kill, I cry.


Superman should learn to Superman off screen. He isn't Spider-man. This isn't television. A film should have 3 acts, not be one giant first act with lazy flashbacks inserted throughout.

It was a terrible film folks. It doesn't get a pass because it needs a sequel to tell the rest of the story.

And if Zod is DD, that's ultra crap.

Oh, and Donner's Superman is genius? Lol

Most of Man of Steel was spent questioning whether or not the world will accept Superman which is a pretty huge plot point in Dawn of Justice. You'd have to be dumb to think that was accidental. Snyder clearly knew where he was taking Superman post Man of Steel.

I don't think you do. Ironic considering you told that guy earlier that he wasn't the brightest. A 5 year old could probably sum up the movie better than you.

There's more to Superman than your limited perspective of him. I for one am glad they're exploring him more deeply because honestly, it's about damn time.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

I completely disagree. Snyder Isn't that smart.

That's like suggesting the sequel to 300 would have apologized for the existence of the 300. Maybe Sucker Punch 2 was planned to explain the events of SP 1.

No, bloody way. You buy that, I got swamp land you might be interested in.

And seriously, I don't need MOS explained to me. FFS, I understand exactly what Snyder wanted to say, but he didn't say it well, and what he did say, was idiotic.

My dad died slowly saving a dog.
My other dad is a living hologram who forgot to invite mom.
Don't think of others, just do you.
You can always punch your way out of a problem, especially laser problems.
Let's all terraform the planet, that way nobody will be super, including us!
My planet exploded, and all I got was this lousy Codex.
I'm inexplicably carrying all the genes of all the krypts, but there are 0 girl krypts left to get freaky with.
Now that I made a big mess, I'ma gonna go and hide out with my new GF, and act like nothing happened.
When the military follows me, I bust their sh*t up fast son!
I'm exactly like Jesus, because I'm nothing like Jesus.
I'm not very good at anything yet, but I'm learning! Oh WELL!
Was it helpful, me coming to Earth? Did things get better?
I have emotional issues. When I kill, I cry.


Superman should learn to Superman off screen. He isn't Spider-man. This isn't television. A film should have 3 acts, not be one giant first act with lazy flashbacks inserted throughout.

It was a terrible film folks. It doesn't get a pass because it needs a sequel to tell the rest of the story.

And if Zod is DD, that's ultra crap.

Wow and you called me "not the brightest". You are lazy. And you're probably a douche bag...well if you're anything like the person you are here, you're definitely a douche bag.

Equating a new Superman movie to 300 and Sucker Punch...wow...Snyder wasn't making 300 with the plans to create a multi-movie universe. Same for Sucker Punch.

You are just making outlandish claims, then when you get called on them, claim they're hyperbolic. That's a good way to have people respect your opinions...

Jonathan Kent didn't die "slowly saving a dog" you missed the reasoning completely, most likely due to your inability to think.

Now, I haven't seen the original in a long time, but I'm pretty sure Lara El did not join Jor to explain to Kal what happened to Krypton. So why is it a bad thing she isn't in MoS, but it's not a bad thing in the Reeves movie?

I could go on and on, but you are boring, and you just don't get it, or you don't want to get it.

[Bry]

So much anger! Come on, you guys, let's take a step back and try to get along. After all, what would Superman do?



Uh... well, maybe not that version of Superman...

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Bry

Uh... well, maybe not that version of Superman...

well what about this Superman?



or.... Not, he's terrifying. what about batman, he never kills...



damn...

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

Jonathan Kent didn't die "slowly saving a dog" you missed the reasoning completely, most likely due to your inability to think.

Uh, jumping back in here to say:

Pa Kent TOTALLY died saving a fvcking dog. That was the reason he went out into the tornado. To save. A. Fvcking. Dog.

I hope PETA at least paid for some sort of memorial to the senile old guy.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

well what about this Superman?

https://iwanticewater.files.wordpres...-lesson-04.gif

Hey, that Krypton Crystal Slide looks fun as hell! And he didn't even charge Zod admission. He's generous!

Now, what I'd really like is to see this Superman on screen:

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Uh, jumping back in here to say:

Pa Kent TOTALLY died saving a fvcking dog. That was the reason he went out into the tornado. To save. A. Fvcking. Dog.

I hope PETA at least paid for some sort of memorial to the senile old guy.

See... Pa Kent should be the kind of guy who saves a dog. That's compassion and heroism, and he's one of the people Clark's supposed to learn that from. I don't want a Pa Kent who would just let that dog die if he could do something to save him.

But... him choosing to die and putting his family through emotional hell because he's afraid of Clark's powers being exposed? That's garbage.

How about instead, Clark saves his father and the people of Smallville, and then they all vow to keep his secret out of respect and kindness? Further influencing the hero he'd become, and where his values stemmed from? Giving the character and the story a core of hope and optimism?

...nah, I guess that's just not "real" enough for a Superman movie.

[Purse Grabbin Puke]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Uh, jumping back in here to say:

Pa Kent TOTALLY died saving a fvcking dog. That was the reason he went out into the tornado. To save. A. Fvcking. Dog.

I hope PETA at least paid for some sort of memorial to the senile old guy.

No he didn't. He ran towards the tornado to save PEOPLE. Then when Martha tells Clark the dog is still in the car Jonathan tells Clark to take the child. He SAVED the dog, and then made a decision to be sacrificed. He was teaching Clark. But hey, yeah a random heart attack, or ancient fruit, is way better story telling.

Originally Posted by Bry

See... Pa Kent should be the kind of guy who saves a dog. That's compassion and heroism, and he's one of the people Clark's supposed to learn that from. I don't want a Pa Kent who would just let that dog die if he could do something to save him.

But... him choosing to die and putting his family through emotional hell because he's afraid of Clark's powers being exposed? That's garbage.

How about instead, Clark saves his father and the people of Smallville, and then they all vow to keep his secret out of respect and kindness? Further influencing the hero he'd become, and where his values stemmed from? Giving the character and the story a core of hope and optimism?

...nah, I guess that's just not "real" enough for a Superman movie.

Or maybe he could have lived, and everyone would complain that he didn't die.

[Krutch]

Wow. Guys, considering this is a Ninja Turtles forum, a franchise where the fandom couldn't be more divided over who they are, I'm surprised we've resorted to name calling and cheap shots in a Superman thread. Relax.

It's clear there's not going to be victorious side in the debate of who he is since we all have very firm ideas over what he stands for. Personally, I'd say Dean Cain's Superman was probably the closest live action interpretation to what I believe Superman is. But I'm well aware thats not going to be everyones cup of tea. So, I'm not going to shove that down peoples throats. Agree to disagree

What we can argue is facts.

I've still yet to hear this pre-release Man of Steel Snyder interview where he spoils the movie and addresses sequel plans but I refuse to believe it until I've heard it. And for those saying it's along the lines of "The sequel will deal with what happened in the first one" ...well, duh. That's what sequels do. If he's being that vague he may have well said "And trust me, this story will definitely continue in the sequel." Obviously.

The debate comes from whether or not Batman was intended to be in the sequel, to which I don't think there's enough proof to believe that was the case. Do you think they would have passed up on an easter egg for teasing Batman in Man Of Steel? From the same writer who wrote the Joker Card scene at the end of Batman Begins? No way. They thought they had a winner, it screened, they brainstormed how they were going to spin it, and thus we got BvS.

I don't see why people are reading so much into this. I mean if you're happy that Batman is in the sequel, great, but why defend with such vigour that this must have been the plan all along? Because Marvel is doing it so well, this must be DC's masterstroke? Let it go

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

But hey, yeah a random heart attack, or ancient fruit, is way better story telling.

If you're looking for an action scene, then yeah, the tornado thing was the way to go. I mean, it was laughably set up, but for adrenaline purposes, a tornado trumps heart attack in an action flick.

But for dramatic purposes, a heart attack is actually a very important lesson Clark learns in humility. That with all his powers theres some people he can't save.

I prefer the latter, but to each their own.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Bry

Hey, that Krypton Crystal Slide looks fun as hell! And he didn't even charge Zod admission. He's generous!

Now, what I'd really like is to see this Superman on screen:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...2220-sroof.jpg



See... Pa Kent should be the kind of guy who saves a dog. That's compassion and heroism, and he's one of the people Clark's supposed to learn that from. I don't want a Pa Kent who would just let that dog die if he could do something to save him.

But... him choosing to die and putting his family through emotional hell because he's afraid of Clark's powers being exposed? That's garbage.

How about instead, Clark saves his father and the people of Smallville, and then they all vow to keep his secret out of respect and kindness? Further influencing the hero he'd become, and where his values stemmed from? Giving the character and the story a core of hope and optimism?

...nah, I guess that's just not "real" enough for a Superman movie.

LOL!

Exactly. I love it. I'm forced to argue why a Superman movie should have Superman act like Superman, and being called a douche in the process. I also love Candy harping on a point that I've already conceded. Yes man, both movies have examples of them potentially killing. It's just not as focused and intentional as MOS. And it's not the biggest sin as far as I'm concerned.

Everybody's just a bag of fun.

Was Donners Superman Genius? Yes, it was, considering there wasn't a single, big budget superhero movie prior to that, and it set the stage for everything afterwards. Considering there wasn't a single studio who wanted to finance it, and that he had some of the worst producers possible to contend with. Considering he had to deal with Brando. Considering it broke ground in practical and optical effects. Considering they did plan both films to be shot at once.

Yeah it is F*cking genius. Wow, kids today!

And what? What deeper? How are they exploring the character? Everything in that POS was surface. Yes, you're right a 5 year old could explain it.

If you're trying to insult me, I'm flattered, but really, y'all need to try harder.

At least Puke went with Lazy and douchebag. That's something. It was stupid, because his follow up was nonsense, but he get's an E for effort.

[Candy Kappa]

I personally think that scene would have been better if Pa realized Clark can do some good with his powers and lets him save people, and we'd have a Superman with both parents alive.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

I also love Candy harping on a point that I've already conceded. Yes man, both movies have examples of them potentially killing. It's just not as focused and intentional as MOS. And it's not the biggest sin as far as I'm concerned.

one post mentioning it and a post showing a gif off it is "harping"? M'kay?

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Purse Grabbin Puke

No he didn't. He ran towards the tornado to save PEOPLE. Then when Martha tells Clark the dog is still in the car Jonathan tells Clark to take the child. He SAVED the dog, and then made a decision to be sacrificed. He was teaching Clark. But hey, yeah a random heart attack, or ancient fruit, is way better story telling.



Or maybe he could have lived, and everyone would complain that he didn't die.

HOLY F*CK!

This cements it. YES you dolt! YES A HEART ATTACK IS BETTER STORY TELLING! YES! YES! YES!

Kent should have taught his son to solve problems. THAT is what a father should do. How to think, the difference between right and wrong. PROBLEM SOLVING.

The Heart attack was a FINAL lesson. "All of these powers, and I couldn't even save him"

Superman was powerless in the face of something as simple as a heart attack. he can't fix that. His powers have limits in the face of life and death.

I love animals, I would totally like to see the dog survive - which is why, sending Pa Kent in, a slow old man, to get the dog is a choice. A STUPID CHOICE. An UNNECESSARY CHOICE. Clark could have done it, and no one would have been the wiser. Stupid movie is Stupid.

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

one post mentioning it and a post showing a gif off it is "harping"? M'kay?

Fine. Fair enough.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

I personally think that scene would have been better if Pa realized Clark can do some good with his powers and lets him save people, and we'd have a Superman with both parents alive.

But then the movie would have to acknowledge the importance of both parents, and not just the fathers, which this movie had no real interest in exploring.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Was Donners Superman Genius? Yes, it was...

That's not what I asked. I don't care about what it was because today it's trash. But thumbs up there, dinosaur. You probably couldn't comprehend that without your reading glasses on.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

And what? What deeper? How are they exploring the character? Everything in that POS was surface. Yes, you're right a 5 year old could explain it.

I won't bother because it would just be a waste of time trying to explain why the sky is blue to a blind fool.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

If you're trying to insult me, I'm flattered, but really, y'all need to try harder.

At least Puke went with Lazy and douchebag. That's something. It was stupid, because his follow up was nonsense, but he get's an E for effort.

I'm not trying to insult you. I'm simply speaking truths.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Turo602

That's not what I asked. I don't care about what it was because today it's trash. But thumbs up there, dinosaur. You probably couldn't comprehend that without your reading glasses on.

Again with the awkward insults. Lol. Keep 'em coming child. This is entertaining. You get a gold star.

Originally Posted by Turo602

I won't bother because it would just be a waste of time trying to explain why the sky is blue to a blind fool.

WTF?

Originally Posted by Turo602

I'm not trying to insult you. I'm simply speaking truths.

You might be speaking, but you're not saying anything.

[Turo602]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Again with the awkward insults. Lol. Keep 'em coming child. This is entertaining. You get a gold star.

And you're just fantastic at the insults. I'm so deeply hurt by your stupidity.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

WTF?

My point exactly. There's no use in explaining anything to someone so damn ignorant and foolish. I've seen my fair share of stupid, but you take the cake, dude. Wow.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

You might be speaking, but you're not saying anything.

Maybe because you're covering your ears and saying "la la la" like the manchild you are.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Krutch

I'm surprised we've resorted to name calling and cheap shots in a Superman thread. Relax.

Yeah man. Talk about having zero self-awareness. C'mon.

Originally Posted by Krutch

Personally, I'd say Dean Cain's Superman was probably the closest live action interpretation to what I believe Superman is.

You too, huh? I'm not the only one who noticed how strongly that show took from the Byrne run! His Clark was so great as the George Reeves "Take No Sh*t" kind of reporter. Even when the show went in the toilet after Season 2, him and Teri are just SO much fun to watch regardless of whatever dreck was going on around them, it makes it all watchable. When people say they can't identify with or understand the more "human" side of Superman, I know they've never watched Season 1 and 2 of that show. Can't blame them for avoiding the rest, it was bad.

I'll chip in that Gerard Christopher from Season 3 and 4 of Adventures of Superboy deserves a nod. Season 2 was still awful and thus he was awful by association, but he was the LEAST awful thing about it, at least, and then for the second half the show was actually really good and he got really, really good in the role. I count it. I mean the guy was older in 1990 than Reeve was when he did the first movie; I don't care what the show was called, I say he was playing Superman. He also got hired for the Lois & Clark gig before the producers found out he did Superboy; for some reason they didn't want him, despite absolutely loving him 5 minutes before that. Stuff like that makes no sense and it always bothered me.

[plastroncafe]

I've always been curious how well Lois and Clark has held up, because I LOVED that show as a kid. It got me during a preview when Clark leaned down and told a kid that his mom made his costume.

[Leo656]

Pilot absolutely holds up. Almost all of Season 1 and about 2/3s of Season 2 are still pretty good. Season 3 was kind of all over the place and Season 4 was pretty much the sh*ts. The finale was one of the WORST last episodes any show ever had and definitely the worst in the entire series.

I can't blame anyone for just watching Season 1 and ignoring the rest if they wanted. The tweaks they kept having to make to the costume for the first 5 episodes are a little distracting - "Watch Superman's cape and neckline drastically change 2 or 3 times in the same scene!" - but once that's all out of the way the rest is some pretty good storytelling. The episodes where he's exposed to Kryptonite and discovers his heritage are some of the best in the entire series.

[Bry]

Thing is, there's a whole wide spectrum between Superman as a flawless do-gooder and Superman as a brooding, neck-snapping vigilante. The key to Superman, for me, is bringing across his humanity and his relentless optimism. He's as human as anyone - he's capable of the same anger, despair, and violence as anyone. He's capable of the same mistakes. But he chooses to try for a better option. He chooses kindness and hope, and to be the best possible version of himself. Which means finding a way to avoid the brutal, easy option. That struggle is the best way to humanize him. He could solve almost any option through sheer force and strength, but he always tries to find the harder, better way.

Can he ever give in? Yeah, but the writing has really gotta earn that moment. It needs to be airtight. And to me, MoS fell very short of that.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Was Donners Superman Genius? Yes, it was, considering there wasn't a single, big budget superhero movie prior to that, and it set the stage for everything afterwards. Considering there wasn't a single studio who wanted to finance it, and that he had some of the worst producers possible to contend with. Considering he had to deal with Brando. Considering it broke ground in practical and optical effects. Considering they did plan both films to be shot at once.

Totally with you on this one. Is it dated in some ways? Sure! Does it have flaws? You bet. But it's a 37 year old movie that holds up remarkably well, and plenty of modern superhero movies are still cribbing from its playbook.

The "it's trash now" modern snobbery is hilarious, too. Does anyone think Man of Steel will have aged anywhere near as well by 2050?

Originally Posted by Leo656

I'll chip in that Gerard Christopher from Season 3 and 4 of Adventures of Superboy deserves a nod. Season 2 was still awful and thus he was awful by association, but he was the LEAST awful thing about it, at least, and then for the second half the show was actually really good and he got really, really good in the role. I count it. I mean the guy was older in 1990 than Reeve was when he did the first movie; I don't care what the show was called, I say he was playing Superman. He also got hired for the Lois & Clark gig before the producers found out he did Superboy; for some reason they didn't want him, despite absolutely loving him 5 minutes before that. Stuff like that makes no sense and it always bothered me.

That kind of thing is always frustrating. If someone's right for the role, they're right for the role. Ryan Reynolds returning as Deadpool seems like a freakish anomaly, as it's a reboot, and not completely scrapping the previous cast almost never happens in those cases.

Originally Posted by Krutch

If you're looking for an action scene, then yeah, the tornado thing was the way to go. I mean, it was laughably set up, but for adrenaline purposes, a tornado trumps heart attack in an action flick.

But for dramatic purposes, a heart attack is actually a very important lesson Clark learns in humility. That with all his powers theres some people he can't save.

I prefer the latter, but to each their own.

Absolutely nailed it. That little scene has so much more impact because it hits you hard with Superman's limitations - it was out of everyone's control and there's nothing he or anyone could do about it. Superman can save people from all kinds of disasters, but he can't stop someone's own body from failing.