Would the turtles still be as popular if they were females?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Powder

What's annoying is your use of constant use of caps lock, & that it's used in place of italics, though that too, in such excess, would be annoying.

What's really irksome is that you're still blind to the fact that in using his quirks as the baseline for any sort of non-binary persons personality, you're effectively treating them as stereotypes all the same, whether it's being gay or something else. "He's this way, & that's clearly indicative of an issue with gender/sexuality!"

If there's such a thing as giving a microcosm of a rats ass about your fan-fiction, that's what I give. Point is, you're treating real people's often painful circumstances as a fun bit of flare for the "weird" character.

Oh, I'm sorry, was I supposed to be upset by that? Honestly, I don't really give a flying fig if YOU cared or not, but I felt it was relevant to the discussion of turtles as female (since in that fic he sort of is). Donnie being (part) female as a way of explaining some of his traits in THAT version simply seemed like a fun twist to his character, and it added a lot of tension and drama to the story because no one else knew about it. He kept it secret (on Splinter's advice) to avoid awkwardness with his brothers, who he felt would treat him differently if they knew.

It was hardly a stereotype, in any case. His hermaphroditism caused strain between him and Mikey both before and after he found out, and also caused tension with the other two later when he was forced to hide his real reason for not telling them about the favor Mikey had asked him. (He refused, and was afraid Mikey would try to out him over it.) So there was a lot more going on than just some dumb "oh look, he's feminine" crap. Actually, he was neither. But since he was PART female, he had a hormonal imbalance that caused some of the traits seen in the series. How is this a stereotype? It was a medical condition from having two separate genders (as a chimera with both reproductive organs, but no ability to use either one). I just used those quirks as a jumping-off point for the whole thing. Or to put it another way, I looked for things about his character that could fit in with what I wanted to do, that could be considered "feminine" under the right circumstances.

And FYI, I use the caps because it's faster and easier than having to stop and use the italics or bold inserts for emphasis every time I want something to stand out. If it annoys YOU, well, if there's such a thing as giving a microcosm of a rats ass about what you think, that's what I give, too.

Originally Posted by Jester

So what you're saying is you made him "different" via stereotypes, but just didn't go for the super-obvious difference?

It wasn't even a stereotype, actually, it was something subtle that I used in the tale to show why he felt the way he did about certain things and why he wasn't as hormonal as the others; outing himself to Mikey during a tense situation made for a family bonding moment and also later brought more tension when he thought Mikey might hold it over him to get what he wanted. I even used the hermie idea to poke fun at some of the T-cest tropes, by having him pretend to come on to Raph during a sparring match as a way to beat him. (It freaked him out, obviously. Leo too. Mikey just thought it was hilarious, since he already knew and put two and two together to figure out what was going on.) When he then tried the same thing on him, Mikey just tapped out from laughing so hard. Which annoyed Raph, since they were teaming up and it caused them to lose.

But no, it was anything BUT a stereotype in how it was used. Making him more "feminine" PHYSICALLY, gave his character some new dimensions that sent him in a different direction than most fics do, like crushing on April or going full gay, or anything else that has been done a million times. If you mean making him "different" physically, then yes, in some ways, he WAS, due to having a stronger dose of female hormones. Same mentally, though I made little mention of how it actually affected him other than a distinct lack of any sort of libido. The long and short of it was that his hormonal imbalance from being a chimera caused the personality quirks he had in the OT. It had nothing to do with using a stereotype as such, but using an imbalance to explain his differences. If anything, it was based more on a medical condition than a simple stereotype.

Basically, he was asexual, not gay, not feminine, or even bi or trans. He just HAPPENED to have the parts of BOTH. But for what it's worth, I really just wanted him to be the one turtle who was outside the issues that the others were dealing with- namely, mating season. Unfortunately, the best explanation for WHY he wouldn't be affected by that was to make him gay, which I didn't want to do. And since he was BASED on the OT version, that was the obvious choice, but was discarded as too clichéd. So, how to deal with Donnie being so unaffected in the middle of mating season when the others are all acting like (pardon the pun) animals? I did some digging into various disorders, and that popped out as a means of making him TRULY unique among them, as the only one who would never be able to physically experience ANY kind of arousal or romantic partnership. Rather than a simple stereotype (as with being gay), I went with a much more complex and painful situation for him.

[Leo656]

I totally missed Powder's note about caps lock instead of italics. I am so guilty and so not sorry. Unnecessary Arbitrary Emphasis 4 Life, Dawg.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Word, Leo. LOL!

[Powder]

[Leo656]

"OOF! A stiff jab, and just like that, the kid's back in this thing...!"

[CyberCubed]

I think this thread really needs to be locked.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Powder

He wears pink, can't make eye contact, & has an aversion to sunlight, he must be a hermaphrodite!

I thought the aversion to sunlight made him a vampire?

[Jester]

I now want a sparkley vamp version of Nash gif.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I think this thread really needs to be locked.

You're Late.

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

I thought the aversion to sunlight made him a vampire?

Close. He's a Wizard.


When he's a gambler he wears pink, when he's a wizard he wears green...

Originally Posted by Jester

I now want a sparkley vamp version of Nash gif.

I have the Next Best Thing...

[Jester]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I have the Next Best Thing...
http://dailywrestlingnews.com/wp-con...e-gifs-001.gif

Yep...that's about the same thing.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I have the Next Best Thing...
http://dailywrestlingnews.com/wp-con...e-gifs-001.gif

Damn those pressure points.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I think this thread really needs to be locked.

Don't think I've heard this for a while. People must be slacking off on making lockable ones lately.

[Leo656]

I also humbly submit this one:

EMERALD CITY SLAM, BITCH!

(I wouldn't take it. Newp.)

[BubblyShell22]

Nice one, Leo.

As for what Duckie did, I wasn't offended by it when I read it. It actually made sense in the context of the story and she presented it well. Granted, not everyone will like it or think it's in good taste, but I was fine with it.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

This got so awesome, so quickly. DAMN.

So, basically, let's blame Duckie's fanfic as overcompensating for Nick cartoon Donnie having such an annoying mega-crush on April? Is that basically what this is boiling down to now?

Hmmm... now I'm thinking maybe Nick gave DONNIE the crush on April so that everyone won't see the purple turtle with the stick and go "Oh, he's a terrible fighter and wears purple? Must be gay!"

This thread went to "versus mode" so quickly. Now I may havta read Duckie's fanfic just to see what it's really about. Actually, Duckie, reading a bit more about what all was going on... would you mind posting a link? Not saying I'll definitely read it, but I might.

[jenna]

Just going to politely sidestep the last 2 pages of this thread.....

Originally Posted by Prowler

Well, if TMNT were primarily aimed at girls and written and created by women, I guess things wouldn't be like that.

Um... No. Because then it wouldn't be TMNT. Turtles is what it is and has a healthy mix of male and female viewers. What Indigo says (quoted below) is very true. Women are more likely to identify with male characters than men are to identify with female characters (the reasons for this are subject to ongoing debate). The question was would TMNT be as popular. My answer is: Not if men were completely alienated from the audience.

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Which is pretty sad really, because, as a woman, I doubt I'm alone in being able to relate to a male character in ways outside of their gender. It's a shame the reverse rarely seems to be true, or socially blocked from being able to be because of the way entertainment is made.

Yes, very true.

I'm a woman and often relate to male characters who always seem a bit more realistic. It seems that lately female characters are only presented as victims or as sociopaths. No wonder they are unrelatable.

[plastroncafe]

They "could" be as popular with a mostly female staff, but it'd need to be a Steven Universe/My Little Pony type of situation.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by jenna

It seems that lately female characters are only presented as victims.

Sadly, that's how it always has been. Back in the Middle Ages it was the fairytale. The dragon kidnaps the princess, and the young brave male knight must rescue her, kill the dragon and then they marry and he get the princess and the half kingdom. Then came the Grimm Brothers back in the early 19th century, writing down the fairytales spreading them for new generations. Then came Walt Disney bak in the 1930's something and made an animated film out of it, continuing the streotype again.

I hate the stereotype female heroes in comics often using magic, they sohuld also be able more to practice martial arts and kick back against bank robbers, streetgangs or extraterrestrials trying to attak Earth and kill all humans, and understand the physical laws of the Universe good. I liked Mona-Lisa, she studied some chemistry and physics at the university.

[PangolinFeets]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

They "could" be as popular with a mostly female staff, but it'd need to be a Steven Universe/My Little Pony type of situation.

Steven Universe gives me hope for cartoons.

[Duke Nukem]

Maybe Donatello wears purple because the last person to touch him before he contacted the mutagen was a black guy. That's why he likes extra hot sauce on his pizza.

[IndigoErth]

Or a little girl since that's like the high ranking secondary color of the socially approved 'girl uniform.' Or anyone else.


Considering color choices though, if you avoid colors that look like two shades of the same color, skip using green for obvious reasons, and yellow because it can have negative connotations, and black/white/gray don't fit the color scheme/tone being aimed for, the choices get kind of limited. As long as it doesn't look too blue, purple stands on it's own pretty well and is likewise a deep color tone; with lots of great meanings associated with it.