Season 2: What was the Problem

[Groverman62]

Im always up for listening to different opinions.

The thing is I do not get what were people's problems with season 2. I like it and season 1 more or less equally. Why is it people seem dissapointed?

[snake]

-April plot clusterf*ck that hardly got brought up
-Forgetting plots (Mutagen? Kraang Shredder alliance?)
-More filler mutants (Which I personally am fine with)
-Looser continuity

[CyberCubed]

Nothing much. I'm willing to bet from this point on people are going to complain about every season after Season 1.

Watch when Season 4 airs people complaining about them spending too much time in space, since I'm willing to bet it'll be like the Northampton arc where they're in space for the first 7-8 episodes or so of next season.

[neatoman]

Possibly a forced setback in status quo. The Turtles defeated the Kraang in season 1 and April was reunited with her father, yet season 2 starts out with the Kraang returning and Kirby goes away again.

I guess the new team of writers didn't know what to do when everything was more or less resolved at the end of the first season, so they just desided to return to the basics of the first season so they could figure it out from there.

[Sushi Shea]

I think season 2 was stronger than season 3, at least. I guess my biggest problem with season 2 is that this is when it really started to show that the writers weren't all that keen on following through with their stakes. Like, the interesting plot points kinda ended with a fizzle rather than a bang or a satisfying tie-up from here.

Take when Kirby was mutated into a bat for example; it happens, we don't mention it for a few episodes, and then it just . . . ends when April is suddenly cool with it. Or the mutagen outbreak thing -- that was kinda put on the shelf half-way through, too. I don't get it, man; why do that if you aren't going to explore it or anything? It kind of weakens the whole caboodle . . .

[Wonton]

It's been awhile since I've watched season 2, so I'd have to go through it again in order to give a completely well-founded opinion on it, but I'll try nonetheless~

You see, while a couple of my favorite episodes in the entire series are there ("Of Rats and Men" and "Wormquake") and the animation definitely takes a big leap forward, I think my biggest problems with it are some odd characterization "glitches"/choices and ret-cons (especially concerning Karai, Donnie, Splinter, and Leo) as well as particularly grating plot-holes here and there. This is also where I started to wonder whether or not these writers actually know how to handle character development and high-stakes situations in story-telling; so much happened in this season that called for more consistency and stronger character reactions/interactions, but I don't think any of that happened the way it should have.

That's just my two cents, though, and a rough summary of them at that. It's not like season 1 didn't have notable problems, but things got even rockier for me around season 2.

[CyberCubed]

There were no plotholes. What are people referring to?

[Sumac]

Looser continuity, more fillers and more random mutants.

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Looser continuity, more fillers and more random mutants.

Agreed. There is also the unnecessary extentions of already completed plotlines.

[Groverman62]

What the fatshaming Purple Kraken. I thought that was a big issue with you

They were about 4-5 episodes that I consider filler and I dont see the looser contiunuity issue

[Ninturtle]

My problem is that the jokes weren't as funny in season 2. There's some really good humor in season 1 but less of it in season 2.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Looser continuity, more fillers and more random mutants.

More like character A/B hit upon a huge personal revelation bombshell and not a single reaction was shown in a way that was realistically effecting character A/B and thus gave the ****ing huge personal revelation bombshell zero ****s .

Looser continuity is more like small connections to different side stories like the Marvel Universe. The continuity in season 2 should have been a straight line in character development and story arc but it went off a cliff, into a hole and somehow end up in ****ing China.

But the continuity of later half season 3 is a huge improvement because they are not dropping huge personal revelation bombshells anymore that would've only gotten ignored and all of the characters walking around with a plastic stepford smile on their faces.

[Foombamaroom]

I thought that the episodes weren't really the problem, but where the episodes were placed. But season 2 is still my favorite, so I don't really see much wrong with the season as a whole.

[Metalwolf]

Originally Posted by Ninturtle

My problem is that the jokes weren't as funny in season 2. There's some really good humor in season 1 but less of it in season 2.

Originally Posted by Luckyday

More like character A/B hit upon a huge personal revelation bombshell and not a single reaction was shown in a way that was realistically effecting character A/B and thus gave the ****ing huge personal revelation bombshell zero ****s .

Looser continuity is more like small connections to different side stories like the Marvel Universe. The continuity in season 2 should have been a straight line in character development and story arc but it went off a cliff, into a hole and somehow end up in ****ing China.

But the continuity of later half season 3 is a huge improvement because they are not dropping huge personal revelation bombshells anymore that would've only gotten ignored and all of the characters walking around with a plastic stepford smile on their faces.

Both of these for me.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by Metalwolf

Both of these for me.

Yup but Season 2 had really good individual episodes, but the over arching storyline? What storyline? Honestly in those days, their philosophy was probably "Hey, let's throw it and see what sticks guys." which is how we get some awesome episodic stories, and with most of them being intro episodes to new characters. Few exception were Karai character arc, and April being mad at the turtles.

What had help the later half of season 3 's continuity, somewhere just after Return to New York arc, was that just loose enough to have stand alone episodes that still felt connected to the main plot; probably, because the storyline was uncovering it.

It just goes to show that TMNT works better with storylines that have soft revelations of the characters themselves slowly uncovering of the whatever macguffin plot device of the season. The bigger revelation, the more likely of it being drop, because it's all about uncovering the "it" rather then reacting towards "it". It's reason why "find all the mutagen" plot was dropped and the North Hampton arc was written for the way it was, because what's the point going on about something that you've already know?

[Sushi Shea]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

It just goes to show that TMNT works better with storylines that have soft revelations of the characters themselves slowly uncovering of the whatever macguffin plot device of the season. The bigger revelation, the more likely of it being drop, because it's all about uncovering the "it" rather then reacting towards "it". It's reason why "find all the mutagen" plot was dropped and the North Hampton arc was written for the way it was, because what's the point going on about something that you've already know?

Yeah, that seems to be the case. Excellent way of putting it! So, basically, we have a case of the writers not really knowing their style/structure, and therefore playing around with machines they don't want/can't operate.

[Aaronardo]

Originally Posted by snake

-Forgetting plots (Mutagen? Kraang Shredder alliance?)

Season 2 forgot some plots here and there, but nothing as huge as those. The Kraang/Shredder alliance and the mutagen stayed as common themes in Season 2 all the way up to the finale. Season 3 is the one that forgot these important threads iirc.

[jenna]

Season 1 had some soft, thoughtful moments and some quite philosophical questions. For example, episodes such as Never Say Xever or Enemy of my Enemy showed Leonardo working through some difficult moral questions. I loved that and thought Ciro had given us something really special, on par with 2k3 in that respect.

Season 2 saw the decline of this thoughtfulness in favour of action, and by Season 3, it was gone altogether. Even episodes such as Slash and Destroy or Vision Quest, with premises that promised something thought provoking seemed unable to go into their subjects in any real depth.

That's my opinion on what went wrong in season 2. The show lost its heart.

[CyberCubed]

The show didn't lose anything. The writers didn't forget anything.

[Papenbrook]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The show didn't lose anything. The writers didn't forget anything.

That's your opinion, not fact.

Anyway, the writing has gotten worse in the character department. Raph gets less episodes that focus on his development as a character. When was the last time his hidden depths were shown? Also, April rarely gets an episode with her as the sole focus. It was almost always in relation to Donnie.