Could Viacom tell Playmates no?

[neatoman]

So I've seen a lot of complaints about Playmatesmeddling with the Nickelodeon cartoon, as well as a general dissatisfaction with the actual toys they produce. And it does seem kind of strange to me that Playmates still seems to have this iron hand over the franchise, I get why Fred Wolf and 4Kids had to listen to playmates as they probably didn't have much choice, but what about Viacom?

Could Viacom tell Playmates "No, we're gonna find some other toy campany to make TMNT toys"?

[IndigoErth]

No idea, but it could be worth their time to at least threaten to shop around if they don't back off or straighten up.

[Autbot_Benz]

I would love it if Viacom did that. I would love a more Adult Collector friendly company to get the turtles line

[Zak The Neutrino]

I would assume there is opt outs to the contracts. For instance Disney fired Mattel when they couldn't produce Frozen dolls fast enough for one of the holiday seasons.

Also Disney threatened to pull all licenses from Hasbro when there was talks about them being acquired by Dreamworks.

[jenna]

I don't know, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if the series was not held ransom by the criteria set by a toy company. Perhaps then they could spend more time on developing story rather than introducing mutant character after mutant character after mutant character.

[CyberCubed]

What kind of logic is going on in this thread? Viacom owns TMNT 100%. They don't answer to *anything* Playmates does. Playmates makes toys based on the cartoon and that's it.

The only time Playmates had a say in the production of the cartoon was the Fred Wolf series, and even then the writers of the show ignored almost all the Playmates mutants and didn't even give them episodes. The cartoons never gave a damn about Playmates.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

What kind of logic is going on in this thread? Viacom owns TMNT 100%. They don't answer to *anything* Playmates does. Playmates makes toys based on the cartoon and that's it.

The only time Playmates had a say in the production of the cartoon was the Fred Wolf series, and even then the writers of the show ignored almost all the Playmates mutants and didn't even give them episodes. The cartoons never gave a damn about Playmates.

If they didn't have a deal with Playmates they wouldn't even make the cartoon. They're at Playmates' mercy.

[sdp]

Any post here is really just rampant speculation since we don't know any specifics of the contracts in place so even the Disney example isn't a good way to measure it. If I recall correctly Playmates had a say in the direction of the 2k3 show.

So why doesn't Viacom tell Playmates to shove it? Well what exactly are they doing that's bad, I don't keep up with the news so I have no idea. I know their toys suck but that's not important for the company, what they care about is sales. As long as Playmates has sales they won't care about what they do, in fact if they have good sales they'll let the meddle around in the show. We don't know if they're helping to fund the show, if they are then they definitely have a say. If Playmates isn't making figures or the figures aren't selling well then yeah Viacom might look for another company, but even then they might have to wait for the license to expire.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

If they didn't have a deal with Playmates they wouldn't even make the cartoon. They're at Playmates' mercy.

This is a fact. A fact that sucks. We're lucky it's as good as it is given how strong of an influence they have.

[Zak The Neutrino]

Originally Posted by <TmNtRoX-1997>

Any post here is really just rampant speculation since we don't know any specifics of the contracts in place so even the Disney example isn't a good way to measure it. If I recall correctly Playmates had a say in the direction of the 2k3 show.

So why doesn't Viacom tell Playmates to shove it? Well what exactly are they doing that's bad, I don't keep up with the news so I have no idea. I know their toys suck but that's not important for the company, what they care about is sales. As long as Playmates has sales they won't care about what they do, in fact if they have good sales they'll let the meddle around in the show. We don't know if they're helping to fund the show, if they are then they definitely have a say. If Playmates isn't making figures or the figures aren't selling well then yeah Viacom might look for another company, but even then they might have to wait for the license to expire.

You are correct. There is probably without a doubt some type of opt out but we have no clue what the conditions of that opt out are. It would all just be speculation.

Technically they are doing nothing wrong. Some of us older fans just don't like the articulation and paint apps. Unless it's hurting sales of the line why would Playmates or Viacom care?

Considering the size of the toy sections for the TMNT line at stores I would say these concerns are not affecting sales that much.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Zak The Neutrino

Technically they are doing nothing wrong. Some of us older fans just don't like the articulation and paint apps. Unless it's hurting sales of the line why would Playmates or Viacom care?

Considering the size of the toy sections for the TMNT line at stores I would say these concerns are not affecting sales that much.

Not painting key design elements is very much doing something wrong, dude. Articulation is a different thing altogether, though you could argue their lack of it is a serious flaw as well. Clearly sales are hurting, & that is why the sculpts & paint alike have suffered, to cut costs. It's not just "some of us older fans" taking issue, it's a LOT of us older fans AND kids. Don't forget, we older fans are the schmucks buying the toys for kids, after all. Not me specifically, but many of my peers.

To get back to the whole "doing nothing wrong" thing, they're hesitant to produce female characters, they have TERRIBLE public relations, they cancel & push back items frequently, their products availability is super inconsistent across the states, they prevent other companies from doing similarly scaled products (of a higher quality, no less) & they have no idea how to appeal to the adult collector market. That's a LOT wrong, for a major company.

[sdp]

Originally Posted by Powder

Not painting key design elements is very much doing something wrong, dude. Articulation is a different thing altogether, though you could argue their lack of it is a serious flaw as well. Clearly sales are hurting, & that is why the sculpts & paint alike have suffered, to cut costs. It's not just "some of us older fans" taking issue, it's a LOT of us older fans AND kids. Don't forget, we older fans are the schmucks buying the toys for kids, after all. Not me specifically, but many of my peers.

To get back to the whole "doing nothing wrong" thing, they're hesitant to produce female characters, they have TERRIBLE public relations, they cancel & push back items frequently, their products availability is super inconsistent across the states, they prevent other companies from doing similarly scaled products (of a higher quality, no less) & they have no idea how to appeal to the adult collector market. That's a LOT wrong, for a major company.

All of that is still clearly rampant speculation though unless we see how sales actually are. You'd be surprised how much some things sell even if they don't seem like they do. Your second paragraph is full of your personal likes and not necessarily good business decisions. I have seen sales figures for female characters in toys for boys and they're terrible. Pushing back or canceling items may be done for better sales or short term profits, sure those things can bite them in the longterm if they're not careful. Preventing other companies from doing things is a logical step if you are able to do it. They don't know how to appeal to the adult collector and they don't seem too interested in it, that may be a flaw, but in reality the adult toy collector market is much smaller than you may think; at least compared to mass market for kids.

Don't get me wrong I hate playmates and the crap their releasing but they are acting like a normal company would. I hope their doing bad and another company gets a shot at it but we don't know the details of the contract, maybe the toys doing badly doesn't mean we get a new company but instead the show is just cancelled.

[Powder]

None of that is "rampant speculation", do you even know what that means? There are hundreds of users on this site that can attest to issues with finding certain characters or lines in general with regards to availability, & as far as bad sales/cost cutting goes, Playmates reps have been pretty open about this stuff at Toy Fair, Comic Con, even in emails. The delays are often times detrimental to the cause because those characters fall out of their popularity period, like the Dark Beavers, for example. They're not gonna sell nearly as well as they would have before as they'll be forgotten in favor of the next MOTW by the time they're in stores.

If Playmates were making collector figures, yes, it would make sense that they would want to lessen their competition, but they're not. They're preventing us from getting figures that they themselves aren't in the running to create. Nothing to do with "logical steps". & no sh*t the adult collector market is smaller, what's your point? Considering our toys can cost double, triple, or more, it evens out. Or at least it would, in the event they made decent figures. The Revoltech Turtles & First Gokin Krang sold like hot cakes. The proof is in the pudding.

They're a bad company on every front, that's just a fact. They do not make good decisions creatively or business-wise.

[sdp]

I'm mostly playing devils advocate I do think Playmates is poorly run and have no idea how they're still operating but my point about we not knowing exactly what is going on at Playmates stands until we see actual figures. You're not really correct on the adult market stuff either, even with the kids market shrinking over the past few years and the adult market growing and the product being more expensive there's still a big difference. Good sales for adult collector figures aren't necessarily good sales in the mass market figures.

So yeah, we don't know the exact deals that have been made behind close doors so we're just guessing at best whether Playmates could lose the license. To find some common ground, let's complain a little about Playmates instead I'd love to rant about Playmates. But is there even any good company left? Hasbro/Bandai/Mattel don't seem like they would be much better with this. I mean NECA or the like aren't going to be releasing kids toys.

[Powder]

As far as I'm concerned, reps speaking openly about lower than expected sales figures is pretty clear cut. & what exactly am I not correct about? Nobody ever said the adult collector's market was the same size of the children's one, just that it exists, is sizable in its own right, & should be treated with some level of respect...

As far as good companies go, I dunno, I don't collect many toys outside of TMNT, & the ones I do are Japanese & aimed towards adults. Nendoroid, Figma, etc. Given Good Smile got the license for those statues I can only hopeTMNT Nendoroids are the next step.

What's frustrating is that Playmates did so well with the original & 4kids lines, & that Nick's started off so strong. We know what they're capable of at their best, & that they've stopped doing their best is beyond frustrating. The price point is still nice, the sculpts are decent, but it's an otherwise load of squandered potential these days. I'd love to see a return to form & fall in love with their output all over again...

[ProactiveMan]

I'd be very surprised if Nick/Viacom didn't have sign-off on the figures, so they can 'tell Playmates no', but they haven't so far so I doubt they will. Viacom is not exactly the home of quality anyway. Anyone who bought Ren & Stimpy on DVD can tell you that.

[Zak The Neutrino]

Originally Posted by Powder

As far as I'm concerned, reps speaking openly about lower than expected sales figures is pretty clear cut. & what exactly am I not correct about? Nobody ever said the adult collector's market was the same size of the children's one, just that it exists, is sizable in its own right, & should be treated with some level of respect...

As far as good companies go, I dunno, I don't collect many toys outside of TMNT, & the ones I do are Japanese & aimed towards adults. Nendoroid, Figma, etc. Given Good Smile got the license for those statues I can only hopeTMNT Nendoroids are the next step.

What's frustrating is that Playmates did so well with the original & 4kids lines, & that Nick's started off so strong. We know what they're capable of at their best, & that they've stopped doing their best is beyond frustrating. The price point is still nice, the sculpts are decent, but it's an otherwise load of squandered potential these days. I'd love to see a return to form & fall in love with their output all over again...

See I'm completely on the other side of the spectrum than you are as far as opinions go. I see Playmates doing more right than wrong.

I do collect other toy lines. My biggest collection is GI Joe. If you collect that and see all the BS Hasbro does with that line you would realize that from my perspective Playmates is a breath of fresh air.

If you only collect TMNT I can understand why you would be frustrated and have that opinion though.

Really the only toy lines that are getting adult collector respect in my opinion is Transformers and Marvel. The rest of the toy lines are super frustrating and have a longer list of complaints than TMNT.

[turtlefanforever]

Viacom seems to be going through some money troubles lately though. Probably shouldn't say no to a cash cow like playmates.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Playmates does. Playmates makes toys based on the cartoon and that's it.
.

Sometimes, it seems to be the opposite way...

[snake]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Sometimes, it seems to be the opposite way...

What the f*ck would you know?

First of all, Ciro and his guys love making pointless references and pretty much suck the OTs dick so they're probably the ones adding all the references.