Cats or dogs?

[Lethal Lullaby]

Originally Posted by Electric

god, id swear that the Chihuahua is the most aggressive and vicious breed of anything. People want to talk about an inherently nasty breed, there you go!

joking, naturally, i have met one absolutely sweet chihuahua named Kiko, all he wanted was love

XD my older cousin had a chihuahua named Honey. She seemed to dislike my brother and younger cousin. Idk why. But she was nice to basically us girls of the house.

Boyfriend has a chihuahua/daschund(?) mix named Rascal, that used to nip and jump at me when I first went over to his house. But now he and I have really gotten along with each other. ^-^

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Unfortunately, I've known too many pits that were spoiled in a bad way, and they were some of the dumbest dogs I've ever known besides. It's not a stereotype when it's speaking from personal experience. It's simple observation. Known plenty of dogs of MANY breeds, and they were always the least well-behaved, other than a few irritating Chihuahuas and one Boxer who was a chewer. Maybe it was the owners, but when nearly every one I've met is like that, I kind of have to wonder if there's not something inherently wrong with the breed mentally. Breeding does introduce defects in both dogs and cats, because many breeders want certain traits at the expense of health or other issues. (Persians are known for asthma, hairballs, and allergies, Chihuahuas are highly strung and nervous, etc....) Large dogs are also prone to hip displacia(sp?), which we learned the hard way with our Dalmatian; we also learned he was the target of a neighborhood sociopathic brat and his BB gun for YEARS without our knowledge. When finally put to sleep for the hip displacia, he had been X-rayed with 77 BB's in his body. Might have contributed, but other big dogs I've known since then have had it too.

[Electric]

sorry youve had mainly bad experiences, but please, believe me when i say its not the whole breed. They can be sooooo sweet and wonderful, just like any other dog or cat. Each animal is an individual, they can all be sweet, with the exception of a few bad eggs. Though again, spoiling a dog doesnt usually have anything to do with it, mainly history and training.

As far as hip displacia, extremely common in big dogs. had to put down my perfectly healthy 16 year old shepherd a few years ago because she could just simply not walk, and we had been carrying her everywhere (food, water, outside to go to the bathroom) for over 6 months.

current shepherd has started showing signs, but were not certain as her back is pretty messed up from what were assuming was that evil b*tch and her baseball bat.

Thats terrible about the BBs, did you address the issue when you found out?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Wasn't much we could do. No proof, though he'd also busted a sliding glass door and when the parents were contacted, nothing was ever done. And that was several years earlier. He was just a punk in general, with parents who didn't give a frack.

Don't get me wrong, the pits I've met were still "sweet", they just didn't listen or obey anyone, even the owners. They were hyper and destructive, and jumped on people constantly. And this was "playing"- I'd hate to see what they'd be like if they were provoked. Sadly, they were just treated like big babies, allowed to run amok, and they WERE overprotective, as well.

[Electric]

Thats terrible, im sorry. Cant stand that.

And if theyre left to do what they please, those people should not own the dogs. Nothing personal to them, but if you want to own a large dog it NEEDS discipline. Because if not trained, they can be dangerous if its in their personality.

[pennydreadful]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Um, penny, that's not the bull breed we're talking about. It's this one:

http://spa.fotolog.com/photo/10/26/8...69928415_f.jpg

While they are similar, the pit I'm referring to is larger, and it's head is wider and shaped differently.

That looks like an American Bull Terrier, though I'm no expert. Over here, most folks universally refer to bull terriers (regardless of whether they're Staffordshire, English, American or a cross) as "staffies".

But yeah - I tend to refer to bull terrier breeds collectively for that reason; though we recognize that there are sub breeds, we get so many crosses and they're such a common dog here that it's rare for the full "proper" breed name to be used. I personally don't like referring to them as pit bulls at all, but that's just a personal quirk of mine.

Also, as far as cats acting narky towards people goes - they can pick up on if someone doesn't like them and tend to react accordingly. They're completely different from dogs behaviorally and if they have a stressful home environment where their needs aren't being met, they're going to be more prone to acting out towards visitors. If you've ever watched the tv series "My Cat From Hell", you'll see that in every instance, the "problem cat" actually just has a clueless owner who isn't giving it what it needs (like safe space of its own, non-aggressive treatment from owner's cat-hating partner, a clean litterbox, a scratching post, adequate stimulation/playtime, somewhere it can go to get away from kids, not spaying/neutering etc).

IMO, that show should be required watching for everybody.

We have to remember - animals can't tell us how they're feeling with human words: they tell us with animal words. We have to learn to listen and understand what they're trying to tell us.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

So true. Very few people ever become fluent enough in "Catese" to understand them properly. Thank goodness I had one that was such an excellent translator! Mischief was also very fluent in human English, for a cat. He understood more words than any animal I've ever met, and could even "speak" a few. Ice cream was the most obvious, but he could get his point across regarding a few others as well.

The one I linked above is based on more mastiff blood, I believe, and is the more common type here. Not sure what the type you showed has in its ancestry, but both also have bulldog, so- just different breeds all branching off the same original stock, AFAIK.

One thing I've noticed, is that dogs are more likely to exhibit aggressive behavior, while cats will usually show more timid behavior when mistreated or not raised properly.

[Electric]

gonna have to disagree to some extent there. ive seen mistreated cats in shelter who willdo whatever they can to attack you. with dogs, again, its individual. go to any local shelter, plenty of abused dogs there will be quaking in a corner, tail between their legs just by you looking at them. Sure if you get close they may snap at you, but theyre still scared, not aggressive. Much easier for a quick nimble cat to run away when its scared the a bulky dog. fight or flight, both still timid

[Zak The Neutrino]

I can see some of the arguments in here about dogs both ways. I've had a few friends that have had dogs that are known as dumb breeds or aggressive breeds that I haven't been impressed with. They did their due diligence training them and they have still gone off and bit people or children. One was a dalmatian and the other was a pit bull. I have another friend with a pit bull and she almost attacked me one time when I was trying to get my coat from their bedroom to leave. I personally think that is a bit extreme.

My dog is territorial but she is very smart. She is a mix of german shepherd and golden retriever. She doesn't like adults on our property without them being with one of us. She however never growls or barks at the neighborhood children. My family and my kids friends can walk right in and she greets them like a friend. However I know for a fact if you broke into my house your butt would get tore up. I came in one night late after coming back from a convention right after we got her and she was ready to attack me until I turned on the light and she saw it was me.

Btw talking about breeds I personally think our cat acts like a dog. He is a Maine Coon. He is big and follows you all around the house just like a dog.

This is the devil cat I was talking about. New in the saga. We got home last night after being at my brothers house for a fire. I got home sat on the couch with my feet dangled over. He just came up bit my foot and then walked away. I just don't get it. I never did anything bad to him.

[Electric]

I swear, animals are so diverse just like us. theres good, theres bad, theres quirky, theres calm, energetic, lazy, mean, sweet, mentally unstable, superior intellect and everything in between

[Zak The Neutrino]

Originally Posted by Electric

I swear, animals are so diverse just like us. theres good, theres bad, theres quirky, theres calm, energetic, lazy, mean, sweet, mentally unstable, superior intellect and everything in between

Most definitely. I'm convinced our cat is bi polar.

It really turns me off to get anymore animals after these two. You just never know what you are going to get. Although for the most part our dog is really awesome. The only issue I have with her is we can't get her to stop taking food from people. We got her as a rescue and I'm wondering if she does it because she at one time never knew when her next meal was coming. We've tried and tried to break her of the habit. It's got better but not gone.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I guess I've just never met a "good" pit. A few bad-egg kitties, too, but they usually just go off to sulk and ignore ya. A few anti-social cats, but again, they usually just go sulk/hide. Most of ours have been feral rescues or found-on-doorstep abandoned kitties, and they've all turned out sweet and well-mannered. (Though Bandit had an issue with spraying, but it was because he wasn't fixed at the time.) Never even had any scratching issues.

Mischief was an interesting case, though- he could read people like a book, and if he didn't like you, you had to go. Not because we were catering to the cat, or that he was aggressive or mean, but he would rarely EVER growl or swat at people, and the few times he ever DID it was at folks who were bad news to have around. He KNEW. We quickly learned to pay attention to how he reacted to people. If he came up and wanted to be petted right away, they were okay. If he growled or hissed at someone, there was something rotten and they would not be welcome again- and it always proved right. Had some of my uncle's meth-head friends come in once, he acted like they were the devil himself- and they turned out to be thieves as well as druggies. Go figure.

[Mayhem]

Originally Posted by pennydreadful

That looks like an American Bull Terrier, though I'm no expert. Over here, most folks universally refer to bull terriers (regardless of whether they're Staffordshire, English, American or a cross) as "staffies".

Unsurprisingly, given this is the UK and our links with Aussieland, then the same applies here. Pitbull is the name given to the dog type that MsMD linked to. Staffy is what we'd call the dog that Penny posted videos of. Ain't he a cutie!

Either way, yes they have a reputation, but I'll completely agree that a lot of the issues are entirely down to the owners, and the types of owners (knuckledraggers) that buy the dogs as a penis substitute. Mind you, there are quite a lot of female owners in the north as well, so it can't always be that.

My brother's fiancee loves Staffies, she's a vet nurse, and has done much to convince both my brother and myself that they are woefully misunderstood. Thankfully we have both met wonderful Staffies over the years, that are incredibly friendly and playful. I wouldn't necessarily have one as a pet even now, but I no longer have the "fear" about them when you know there are responsible owners treating them properly out there.

Originally Posted by Lethal Lullaby

If anything we should be afraid of the chihuahua. Evil lil' critters. (I kid. I love the lil' guys. X3)

You HAVE seen my user photo, right?

[ProactiveMan]

I'm allergic to both, but that is not to say that I don't like them, just that I don't care to be around them... and they smell.

[pennydreadful]

Y'all need to watch the Dear Kitten videos - they're a handy guide to understanding cat behavior.

[Lethal Lullaby]

Originally Posted by Mayhem

You HAVE seen my user photo, right?

Lol yes. Yes I seen it. Lolz >u<

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Um, penny, that's not the bull breed we're talking about. It's this one:

http://spa.fotolog.com/photo/10/26/8...69928415_f.jpg

While they are similar, the pit I'm referring to is larger, and it's head is wider and shaped differently.

There are several related breeds classified as a pit bull dog:

American Pit Bull Terrier
American Staffordshire Terrier [aka Amstaff]
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
American Bulldog
Bull Terrier

Many of these breeds WERE indeed bred for fighting but guess what, that practice was banned in England in 1835, these dogs have not been used for these purposes for GENERATIONS. You will not find a pit bull dog bred for that purpose unless you went looking for one by means of, idk, some illegal underground dog fighting ring or some ****.

[Candy Kappa]

Turtles.



I like both cats and dogs very much, but I think cats comes on top.

I really like Bengal Cats and Norse Fairy Cat, but I'm fairly open to any cat, even the naked ones that are so ugly they are kinda cute.

As for dogs, Pugs are hella cute and they make me both sad and happy seeing them. But I'd never buy a pug and support the atrocities the breeders do, maybe when Retro Pugs gets more mainstream. Shibas are pretty cool to, we're currently looking into maybe getting one. But they do require a lot of training and a strong leadership to keep them obedient, as they are very intelligent and have dominant hunt instincts.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Netkeeper

Many of these breeds WERE indeed bred for fighting but guess what, that practice was banned in England in 1835, these dogs have not been used for these purposes for GENERATIONS. You will not find a pit bull dog bred for that purpose unless you went looking for one by means of, idk, some illegal underground dog fighting ring or some ****.

Yeah, but the point was that they were created for that purpose to begin with. It's genetically wired into them now, and there ARE still quite a few that are still used for that purpose. In fact, illegal dog fighting is a very lucrative underground business in many places, particularly among gangs and organized crime- which is, of course, not surprising, but there are plenty of otherwise "respectable" people who engage in it, too. We just don't hear much about it outside of the occasional bust like Michael Vick and other high-profile offenders. But fore every Vick that gets busted, there are at least a dozen others who go uncaught- and business is booming....

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Yeah, but the point was that they were created for that purpose to begin with. It's genetically wired into them now, and there ARE still quite a few that are still used for that purpose. In fact, illegal dog fighting is a very lucrative underground business in many places, particularly among gangs and organized crime- which is, of course, not surprising, but there are plenty of otherwise "respectable" people who engage in it, too. We just don't hear much about it outside of the occasional bust like Michael Vick and other high-profile offenders. But fore every Vick that gets busted, there are at least a dozen others who go uncaught- and business is booming....

Business may be booming, and I won't dispute you there since I don't really know anything about the numbers, but the fact still stands that you're not going to find a pit bull dog [or any other breed for that matter] bred for that purpose unless you go looking.

It really doesn't matter if fighting is "in their genes", fighting other dogs is not an instinctive behaviour like my beagle's prey drive, where she instictively goes after a rabbit despite never being trained to. The fighting dogs are bred for their musculature, not their ability to fight -- you have to TRAIN the dog to fight with it. This is why the owners are the problem, not the dogs themselves. Breeders can only affect the appearance, health, and physical attributes of the dog they are breeding, not hard-wired instinct.