Would you like to see Raphael as the wise guy again in a future incarnation?

[Prowler]

As we all know, Raphael has usually been the angry one and the lone wolf of the family. But in the Fred Wolf series, he was a pretty different character. He was the funny guy of the group. But ever since, Michelangelo has been filling the role of the funny guy. And he was quite cringeworthy in the 2k3 series.

I really like FW Raphael. And I admit it that when I heard Paulsen was gonna do voice acting for the Nick toon, I kinda hoped he'd voice Raphael again in an attempt to re-create the wise guy Raphael.

I speak for myself, but I really don't care about the rivalry between Raphael and Leonardo. Nor do I care much about Raphael's anger. Maybe it's because I'm not a teenager anymore, I dunno.

I personally prefer Raphael as the wise guy and Michelangelo as the chill and mellow dude. Hyper Michelangelo is quite annoying.

[ABrown]

If handled properly, I could absolutely get behind Raphael as the wise guy once again.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

OH HELL NO. No way.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

OH HELL NO. No way.

Man, why such an emotional reaction? Not a fan of his jokes in the FW series?

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Ah, c'mon, man! I always loved his fourth-wall breaking. (And now I really want to see him and Deadpool meet up and have a sort of "Bing and Bob" type thing...) There's no reason why Raph can't be BOTH, actually. The cynical, sarcastic side was shown a bit in the movies, along WITH the angry side. In fact, I kind of think the two go hand-in-hand for his character, showing how he sees the world and his emotional reaction to life. Sure, make him sarcastic and jaded- with occasional outbursts of pure rage, or dark broody sulking. It CAN be done- the first movie blended the two pretty well, IMHO. And then we got the more snarky side in SotO and TMNTIII.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Ah, c'mon, man! I always loved his fourth-wall breaking. (And now I really want to see him and Deadpool meet up and have a sort of "Bing and Bob" type thing...) There's no reason why Raph can't be BOTH, actually. The cynical, sarcastic side was shown a bit in the movies, along WITH the angry side. In fact, I kind of think the two go hand-in-hand for his character, showing how he sees the world and his emotional reaction to life. Sure, make him sarcastic and jaded- with occasional outbursts of pure rage, or dark broody sulking. It CAN be done- the first movie blended the two pretty well, IMHO. And then we got the more snarky side in SotO and TMNTIII.

I personally liked how he was written in the season 9 episode "Split-Second". Rob Paulsen can sound angry too when he needs to.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I remember a few scenes from earlier episodes where he did the same thing, or where he cam off as very threatening, though I don't recall that particular episode. The line "or else I'm gonna' have to get- sarcastic" when he was trying to scare someone into cooperating comes to mind. I don't recall what episode it was, but it just sounded so "angry Raph", that I absolutely LOVED it!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Prowler

Man, why such an emotional reaction? Not a fan of his jokes in the FW series?

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Ah, c'mon, man! I always loved his fourth-wall breaking. (And now I really want to see him and Deadpool meet up and have a sort of "Bing and Bob" type thing...) There's no reason why Raph can't be BOTH, actually. The cynical, sarcastic side was shown a bit in the movies, along WITH the angry side. In fact, I kind of think the two go hand-in-hand for his character, showing how he sees the world and his emotional reaction to life. Sure, make him sarcastic and jaded- with occasional outbursts of pure rage, or dark broody sulking. It CAN be done- the first movie blended the two pretty well, IMHO. And then we got the more snarky side in SotO and TMNTIII.

Originally Posted by Prowler

I personally liked how he was written in the season 9 episode "Split-Second". Rob Paulsen can sound angry too when he needs to.

I don't trust many writers/producers to give Raph sarcastic/witty character traits without making him too much like Mikey. Will Mikey just become the dumb one?

Honestly, I feel like Raphael has ALWAYS been sarcastic and witty while being the "angry one." He's always making snide observations, whether about Mikey, his opponent, or what. But a return to the Fred Wolf "characterizations..." No way. Fred Wolf certainly made TMNT a viable brand, but at the cost of pretty much ALL meaningful characterization for all four Turtles. I want to get away from one-note characterizations (leader, smart, angry, funny) as much as possible.

Yes, it was a kneejerk reaction on my part. But I'm tired of people (read: Michael Bay) going back to Fred Wolf and doing just as half-assed and as lazy a job as they did back then.

[CyberCubed]

I feel like Nick's Raphael is already kind of like this. A nice mix between original cartoon Raph and every other Raph.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Don't you think that's a bit too harsh of an assessment, though? There were plenty of episodes of the OT where they explored the turtles' personalities beyond "the leader, smart, rude, funny one" tropes. Mikey got several good eps for himself, showcasing other parts of his character- notably The Gang's all Here (I don't care what anyone else says, it was a GOOD episode, story-wise for Mikey!), Poor Little Rich Turtle, Mondo Gecko, What's Michelangelo Good For, Michelangelo's Birthday, and that's just at the top of my head. Raph also got some good ones- Raphael Meet's His Match (and not just because of Mona Lisa!), Raphael- Turtle of a Thousand Faces, Raphael Drives Em Wild, and others.

Even Donnie got a few, like Donatello's Badd Day, Donatello's Degree, Night of the Dark Turtle (which showed just how dangerous the "smart guy" can be!), and Donatello's Duplicate, all expanded past his "smart" traits. And of course there were eps like Take Me to Your Leader, Leonardo Lightens Up, The Three Musketurtles, and Leonardo Vs. Tempestra, or even Beware the Lotus Blossom or Farewell, Lotus Blossom. We even see something of his fears in Snakes Alive!

And a few episodes did it for all four, like Green With Envy, Turtles On Trial, The Missing Map, and The Legend of Koji. So there's far more to them than those singular traits, even in the OT, it's just that it rarely gets brought up in discussions because all anyone remembers is "Leonardo leads, Donatello does machines; Raphael is cool but crude, Michelangelo is a party dude".

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Don't you think that's a bit too harsh of an assessment, though? There were plenty of episodes of the OT where they explored the turtles' personalities beyond "the leader, smart, rude, funny one" tropes. Mikey got several good eps for himself, showcasing other parts of his character- notably The Gang's all Here (I don't care what anyone else says, it was a GOOD episode, story-wise for Mikey!), Poor Little Rich Turtle, Mondo Gecko, What's Michelangelo Good For, Michelangelo's Birthday, and that's just at the top of my head. Raph also got some good ones- Raphael Meet's His Match (and not just because of Mona Lisa!), Raphael- Turtle of a Thousand Faces, Raphael Drives Em Wild, and others.

Even Donnie got a few, like Donatello's Badd Day, Donatello's Degree, Night of the Dark Turtle (which showed just how dangerous the "smart guy" can be!), and Donatello's Duplicate, all expanded past his "smart" traits. And of course there were eps like Take Me to Your Leader, Leonardo Lightens Up, The Three Musketurtles, and Leonardo Vs. Tempestra, or even Beware the Lotus Blossom or Farewell, Lotus Blossom. We even see something of his fears in Snakes Alive!

And a few episodes did it for all four, like Green With Envy, Turtles On Trial, The Missing Map, and The Legend of Koji. So there's far more to them than those singular traits, even in the OT, it's just that it rarely gets brought up in discussions because all anyone remembers is "Leonardo leads, Donatello does machines; Raphael is cool but crude, Michelangelo is a party dude".

The reason I loved FW Donatello so much was because he wasn't only a sci-fi genius nerdy guy, but also sort of like the second in command to Leonardo. And he could also get angry occasionally.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Agreed. One of the reasons that Donnie and Mikey became my two favorites on that show (and in subsequent versions) is that they've always felt more well-rounded than the other two, character-wise. In particular, they seemed to get the most development outside of their normal traits in the OT, by giving them both plenty of side-story episodes. Leonardo did to a slightly lesser degree, and for some reason, Raph had the fewest, but since he was always the big "stand-out" character, who had the most one-liners, perhaps they didn't think he needed it as much.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Agreed. One of the reasons that Donnie and Mikey became my two favorites on that show (and in subsequent versions) is that they've always felt more well-rounded than the other two, character-wise. In particular, they seemed to get the most development outside of their normal traits in the OT, by giving them both plenty of side-story episodes. Leonardo did to a slightly lesser degree, and for some reason, Raph had the fewest, but since he was always the big "stand-out" character, who had the most one-liners, perhaps they didn't think he needed it as much.

Leonardo was pretty flat and boring in the FW series. I mean he was fine in the first season and even in the 2nd season, but after that, bah.

I liked how Raphael was calm as hell and sometimes would even show fear. Also how he didn't give much of a damn and was lazy. "Oh do we have to?"

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I don't consider Leo boring or bland, actually. He had a fear of snakes, became obsessive over a video game, was crushing on Irma along with Raph and Mikey, and had doubts about his leadership- much like in every other version. He even waxed nostalgic over medieval Japan, and fell "in love" with Lotus! He had a lot of development over the years, but most of it was rather subtle. I also enjoyed how he could go from stern leader one minute, to clowning around with the rest of them the next. He really did feel like a teen in that version, but also a responsible individual.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

I don't consider Leo boring or bland, actually. He had a fear of snakes, became obsessive over a video game, was crushing on Irma along with Raph and Mikey, and had doubts about his leadership- much like in every other version. He even waxed nostalgic over medieval Japan, and fell "in love" with Lotus! He had a lot of development over the years, but most of it was rather subtle. I also enjoyed how he could go from stern leader one minute, to clowning around with the rest of them the next. He really did feel like a teen in that version, but also a responsible individual.

He did sound quite whining, though. And the show being a comedy, he just seemed boring with rarely telling jokes.

I don't think any of the turtles acted much like teenagers in that version save maybe for Michelangelo. And a a fairly old teen(18-19).

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

I also enjoyed how he could go from stern leader one minute, to clowning around with the rest of them the next. He really did feel like a teen in that version, but also a responsible individual.

*nod* The kind of teen who's not beyond goofing off, but has the good sense to know when enough's enough or it's just not the time for it.



Agree on "why not both" where Raph is concerned. Nick does seem to have somewhat done that and I do kinda like that they've made him a bit of a snarky little bugger. He can rub me the wrong way at times, depending on version, but I do personally enjoy the headbutting nature between he and Leo, in Nick and otherwise. That's like some of the heart of siblinghood right there, but even if they're mad their pushing makes each other the better for it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by Prowler

He did sound quite whining, though. And the show being a comedy, he just seemed boring with rarely telling jokes.

I don't think any of the turtles acted much like teenagers in that version save maybe for Michelangelo. And a a fairly old teen(18-19).

The "whiney" bit could just be Cam's voice, which admittedly sounds that way a bit at higher ranges. As for rarely telling jokes- of course he didn't- he was the straight man! (Except in Leonardo Lightens Up, where he became obnoxiously goofy and immature. But he had his moments even in the more serious episodes. One of my favorites was in the one with the Crooked Ninja Turtle gang. He showed he could be both serious and playful in that one!)

I think they all acted more like teens in the OT than most give them credit for. Older teens, perhaps- or maybe just teens who had more on their minds than just schoolwork, dating, and being popular.... Dealing with ninja psychopaths and evil alien warlords will do that to you, or so I hear, LOL!!

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

*nod* The kind of teen who's not beyond goofing off, but has the good sense to know when enough's enough or it's just not the time for it.

Agree on "why not both" where Raph is concerned. Nick does seem to have somewhat done that and I do kinda like that they've made him a bit of a snarky little bugger. He can rub me the wrong way at times, depending on version, but I do personally enjoy the headbutting nature between he and Leo, in Nick and otherwise. That's like some of the heart of siblinghood right there, but even if they're mad their pushing makes each other the better for it.

Yeah, I kind of like how Nick has tried to balance the two, and his snarky side definitely makes me think of the OT version a bit. I like that they've been able to give him a nice mix.

[ssjup81]

I like Nick Raph. He's a bit of a snarky, sarcastic type...then again my bias is showing. This is my fav incarnation of Raph. lol I feel the Nick version found a nice balance for his personality, which I absolutely love.

[MikeandRaph87]

You need to add a poll to this thread!

Eob Paulsen is Raphael for me which makes the 2012 Don difficult to hear. That being said why not be a hothead and scarcastic?

[Bombshell]

Split Second was a good episode for Raphael.

I agree that cynicism and sarcasm are just part of the whole anger condition. There are different types of sarcasm (Mike is good at the more lighthearted type) and Raph's dry (and sometimes condescending) variety fits the bill for his character's attitude.

I think Fred Wolf's brand was a bit too lighthearted for his true character but they did give him an attitude adjustment for the younger targeted audiences. He was particularly good at throwing school yard insults, which none of the others took part in. Well, they did just not as often.

Do I want to see another incredibly lighthearted Raphael? No, not particularly. I think he's always been sarcastic though, sometimes the anger is written so visibly its hard to focus on anything else.