Season 3: Main Issues

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

I like season 3. More fun for me than season 2.

Yup or at least half of it arguable better then season 1. Season 2 just had good stand alone episodes but for the life of me, I just can't remember what happen storyline wise.
Something..something..April...or something.

Season 1 was smaller, personal and essentially building up the establishing main traits of key characters but it was far less complex then the later half of season 3.

First half of season 3 is basically season 2 with a different setting and Leo's broken leg for continuity reasons.

[Tarris Vaal]

I think the main problem they started to suffer in season 3 was two fold, specifically;

Plot fatigue

and a lack of space


Some plot elements carried from season 1+2 were definitely starting to get long in the tooth and needed to either be concluded or change dramatically. Capritello triangle being probably the prime candidate here - although Karai's arc certainly was starting to suffer plot fatigue by the end of the season. The apparent lack of significant developments on these plot threads started to make any mention of them feel a bit tiresome.

The lack of space was perhaps the worse problem. Season 3 had plenty of good ideas, but not enough time to develop them, or a lack of will to dramatically change the make up of the show. For all the faults of the hype around Dark Raph, that development - brief as it was - 'could' have been a major upheaval and very interesting to follow.

Its the missed opportunities like that which held the season back most I think.

That said, I think Season 3 had a lot going for it. Although it was not without problems, the vast majority of episodes were generally very good quality, and the animation and fight choreography has improved significantly.

Say what you will about season 3, but I've rarely seen better presented fight sequences in comparable shows and certainly not to the same consistent standard

[LeotheLateBloomer]

The beginning of season three was where I had the most problems with. Leo had just been injured and the writers just felt like doing episodes based off horror stories. As opposed to fleshing out the characters, like Leo trying to get better and back on his feet, Mikey taking a newfound liking to drawing, or the turtles spending more episodes practicing for their fight against the Kraang and Shredder, we just get a couple episodes of Ciro and Bradon's love for old movies and insistent references. It just goes back to (which Matt brought up earlier) the identity problem I had with this series during season 1. This is when they didn't have a balance of what this show is trying to be.

The other problem I have is the Karai story arc. I know they want this to be a tragic story but I feel that they want to keep her as a mutant just to prevent her from having any screen-time or maybe they don't want her to take the focus away from the turtles. Even though she coughed up something that was mind-controlling her, what's next for her?

[Luckyday]

Maybe it just me but Karai feels important to the show as Zuko was to Avatar: The Last Airbender. Both characters start out as an antagonist and switch sides but didn't do so right away. Both had a little of an arc before joining them of where they started questioning themselves and wonder if everything that they were taught was wrong.

Now the real reason why I brought this up because when Zuko join the Gaang (Aang and the others) in the last season of the series, he served mostly as an ally to most of the characters by going on individual missions with each one of the group. There was a episode with just Zuko and Aang, A two parter with Sokka (which is my favorite) and even Katara despite the fact she was only one that still didn't trust him.

With that in mind, it's possible the reason why they been postponing her joining the turtles because they really want to save the arc of Karai joining the turtles for very last season of the series. Probably serving the same role like Zuko which is to serve as ally, who knows Shredder inside and out, and to stop Shredder once and for all. From the look of things, Raph is probably going to be the Katara of the group.

[old_hob88]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

Maybe it just me but Karai feels important to the show as Zuko was to Avatar: The Last Airbender. Both characters start out as an antagonist and switch sides but didn't do so right away. Both had a little of an arc before joining them of where they started questioning themselves and wonder if everything that they were taught was wrong.

Now the real reason why I brought this up because when Zuko join the Gaang (Aang and the others) in the last season of the series, he served mostly as an ally to most of the characters by going on individual missions with each one of the group. There was a episode with just Zuko and Aang, A two parter with Sokka (which is my favorite) and even Katara despite the fact she was only one that still didn't trust him.

With that in mind, it's possible the reason why they been postponing her joining the turtles because they really want to save the arc of Karai to joining the turtles for very last season of the series. Probably serving the same role like Zuko which is to serve as ally, who knows Shredder inside and out, and to stop Shredder once and for all. From the look of things, Raph is probably is going to be the Katara of the group.

This is a really good idea in the end run, but it's going to end up with stagnation for her as a character until the final season. I just feel something needs to happen with her arc before the final season, since there's going to be at least 5.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by old_hob88

This is a really good idea in the end run, but it's going to end up with stagnation for her as a character until the final season. I just feel something needs to happen with her arc before the final season, since there's going to be at least 5.

Sigh. If were up to me, I would just let her join them already to save it from seasonal rot. There is a lot of character conflict and inner conflict potential that you can do with her character. Do writers really think that everything going to be fine and free of tension? She's a snake and her dad is a rat. What do you think?!

[miru]

The Northampton arc was made of filler: they could have cut it down to about 4 episodes and saved us the load of filler. I liked how eventually even the characters had enough of the weird filler. It was stay there and die afraid, or charge in and die with honor. I feel some of them were mainly to make ersatz versions of characters Viacom didn't own (Creep=Bloodsucker, Dream Beavers=Terror Bears, Speed Demon=Von Clutch or the Mutato-Heads)

In "Battle for New York", I felt the Irmabot scene was wholly unnecessary and felt like dropping an anvil on the fans. The removed filler slots would have been great for showcasing Hun and Don Visiozo more. Otherwise, this season was fine.

[old_hob88]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

Sigh. If were up to me, I would just let her join them already to save it from seasonal rot. There is a lot of character conflict and inner conflict potential that you can do with her character. Do writers really think that everything going to be fine and free of tension? She's a snake and her dad is a rat. What do you think?!

^this

And all joking aside, there's the whole she's Hamato Yoshi's long estranged daughter. Even without her being a mutant, I think there's good tension and character development to be built from that if she were to join them.

[CyberCubed]

Do people forget a large chunk of Season 2 was filler as well? Like the only important events is Karai's story which was dragged out and still has no conclusion, April's Dad mutating and being turned back to normal, the intro of Tiger Claw, and just stopping the Kraang a bunch of times.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I don't like to use the term "filler" unless it's an anime. What may be a filler to some might have an important plot point occur such as "Mikey Gets Shell-Acne" where Dogpound becomes Rahzar. Season two also had strange episodes but we're discussing season three in this thread.

[Groverman62]

Well of course the Northhampton arc, was too goofy and went on too long.

That being said I also think that the nods too the 80s show got out of hand here. Bebop and Rocksteady Muckman Mondo Gecko and the Punk Frogs didnt really need all that

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Groverman62

Bebop and Rocksteady Muckman Mondo Gecko and the Punk Frogs didnt really need all that

LOL, what? How is bringing back old characters nods to the 80's show? Bebop/Rocksteady are incredibly popular characters, Mondo is in both the Archie comics and IDW, and Muckman and the Punk Frogs are just established mutants.

That's like saying bringing in Renet, Savanti, Fugitoid and the Triceratons are unnecessary nods to Mirage. Which is also wrong is anyone said it because bringing back all old characters is ideal.

[TurFlytle]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

LOL, what? How is bringing back old characters nods to the 80's show? Bebop/Rocksteady are incredibly popular characters, Mondo is in both the Archie comics and IDW, and Muckman and the Punk Frogs are just established mutants.

That's like saying bringing in Renet, Savanti, Fugitoid and the Triceratons are unnecessary nods to Mirage. Which is also wrong is anyone said it because bringing back all old characters is ideal.

Wow, I actually agree with Cubed for once. At least the show chose infamous characters instead of ignored characters like Mr. Ogg (trans-dimensional Peewee Herman. Sir Malachi is a better Mr. Ogg than Mr. Ogg) and the bat thug who had no lines.

[ToTheNines]

Season 3 really hurt itself by completely missing the mark with Northampton, we never saw the characters dealing with anything, it just skipped ahead 3 months with Leo waking up.

Some episodes were really enjoyable, but no one really gave a **** about Splinter, and the whole idea that The Kraang had subjugated the city of New York was so stupid. Like, I know the EPF tried and failed to stop them, but what about the rest of the world? What about the million people who live on Long Island?

The season certainly had some stand out episodes, but when it was bad... man. I really loved Robbie Rist voicing Mondo, but that episode basically neutered the entire Foot Clan save Shredder and was a video game in the third act.

Season 3 certainly ended strong though, even though Mikey and Casey ruined the mood in the final scene.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Do people forget a large chunk of Season 2 was filler as well? Like the only important events is Karai's story which was dragged out and still has no conclusion, April's Dad mutating and being turned back to normal, the intro of Tiger Claw, and just stopping the Kraang a bunch of times.

Cube, I kinda disagree with season 2 being filler. Sure, the Squirrelnoids, Ho Chan, and even Pizza Face were uncalled for usage, the rest of the season contributes as continuity. You have the mutations, notably Slash and Kirby, Casey getting introduced and starting the oh so lovely triangle, build on of Karai and TC debuting, etc. etc.

Season 1 and 2 ultimately contributed a lot to the show, season 3 kinda falters on not doing so until everything picks up after Northampton and even when the time travel happens. By then, the continuity is finally showcased. Essentially, this season has the most filler for good reason. With the exception of Creep and even the Vision Quest, Northampton was hit with too much references in filler. The Noxious Avenger also felt useless except for Muckman finally returning in the finale.

I could ultimately see if season 3 was redone, giving each of the main characters some limelight in the respective Northampton episodes. (Raph really needed another episode, the Beavers were perfect there) Some of the things were pretty rushed as well, case in point with Clash of the Mutanimals and even other suspenseful episodes with the mind controlled Karai for instance. If anything, it's either little to no buildup causing nothing good to occur, or even more buildup to a major arc that doesn't wrap up.

[CyberCubed]

A lot of Season 2 was filler though as well. And there were tons of generic, "We found a new secret Kraang base now we have to stop them and their new mutants" episodes largely repeated with slight variations.

[ToTheNines]

Yeah, season two did have more plot-relevant episodes than it did filler, but very little actually happened in them. Not to say there weren't some awesome ones, but the overall scope of season 2 wasn't very large.

The Karai/Foot plot did move enough, and it was cool to have Shredder gone for a while, but The Kraang plot in season two was ridiculously slow.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Season 3 really hurt itself by completely missing the mark with Northampton, we never saw the characters dealing with anything, it just skipped ahead 3 months with Leo waking up.

Some episodes were really enjoyable, but no one really gave a **** about Splinter, and the whole idea that The Kraang had subjugated the city of New York was so stupid. Like, I know the EPF tried and failed to stop them, but what about the rest of the world? What about the million people who live on Long Island?

The season certainly had some stand out episodes, but when it was bad... man. I really loved Robbie Rist voicing Mondo, but that episode basically neutered the entire Foot Clan save Shredder and was a video game in the third act.

Season 3 certainly ended strong though, even though Mikey and Casey ruined the mood in the final scene.

Agreed. I really liked season 3 on a whole but the above sums up my major gripes with it. Though, I have to mention I wasn't a fan of Karai's mutation arc being dragged out. She's gonna be a snake into season 4? C'mon, man...

[CyberCubed]

The problem is the writers don't want Karai living with the Turtles in the lair, but they also don't want her off on her own. So she's either with Shredder or "lost in the wilds" till they find her again.

Its stupid, why not just have her as a rogue ninja who doesn't work for Shredder but also helps the Turtles? She can visit Splinter every so often.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The problem is the writers don't want Karai living with the Turtles in the lair, but they also don't want her off on her own. So she's either with Shredder or "lost in the wilds" till they find her again.

Its stupid, why not just have her as a rogue ninja who doesn't work for Shredder but also helps the Turtles? She can visit Splinter every so often.

^ That's pretty much what everyone thinks on what they should do with her.

But still with Karai being who she is, she wouldn't have easy time getting to know her real father who is pretty much the complete opposite of the guy that raised her.

Maybe that sort of conflict between two characters would be pretty interesting for one or two episodes but I can imagine that it would be aggravating after a while if the same conflict keeps repeating itself.

But then again her being a mutant snake and him being a rat....is it really that hard to write Karai?!