Batman V. Superman: Dawn Of Justice

[Turo602]

So I was watching Man of Steel again the other day and I had a really cool idea for what they should have done with Jor El. Anyway, there's a part in the film where Superman destroys the world engine and people say he looks like Christopher Reeve. I don't know whether this was intentional through CGI or if it's just a coincidence that Cavill looked just like Reeve in that moment as I've yet to find any sort of confirmation on the subject other than people including it as an easter egg. With that said, I think it would have been cool if Cavill had also played the part of Jor El with a Reeve face CGI'd over his face.

[Leo656]

Eh. Nah.

Y'know at one point in the 70s, they briefly wanted to have the same guy play both Jor-El and Superman in the first movie, mostly for budget reasons. That was way early on, though, they didn't have a script or a single person cast yet, was just an idea they were tossing around. Your suggestion made me think of it.

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

Batman's an A$$hole. Always has been. He's a crazy person with issues, if you relate to that ... well good for you.

I'd pick Superman over Batman every time. Who needs a batmobile when you can fly? A cave when you can chill in Space? Bat-a-rangs when you have heat vision.

Batman isn't everyman. He's Donald Trump who knows Karate.

On this, we agree. I mean, I love Batman. Out of my all-time favorite super-heroes, he's not even number 2, more like number 1.5 or something. I love the character almost as much as Superman from a different direction.

But holy sh*t, people who say Batman's the character they relate to more, the guy they actually want to be... holy sh*t, those people are cracked! Batman's life is AWFUL and the guy is MISERABLE. I've noticed a ton of people who say that are already pretty miserable themselves, and I guess they figure at least their own world would be better if they could wear a mask and beat up muggers and drug dealers as a way to force some small measure of control over their depressing life circumstances... but holy sh*t, no sane person wants to be Bruce Wayne.

I love Batman; but he IS an overly-cynical, depressing asshole. "More people relate to him", supposedly, because... well, look at society. That doesn't make it a good thing. It's actually a pretty sad indictment of the human race, frankly.
-----

Meanwhile, "nobody" liked Returns. $400 million (which, pre-"Avengers", was fairly huge). #1 DVD and Blu-ray when it came out and one of the top-selling that whole year. From Wikipedia: Superman Returns was a box office success, receiving positive reviews from critics praising its story, visual effects and style. Even as a broad generalization type of statement... the math doesn't add up. It was a big picture and lots of people liked it.

Until The Internet told them not to and everyone started gradually submitting to The Spin. The f*cking internet ruins everything; it erases people's actual opinions and replaces them with some "consensus" made up of whatever the "clever" Meme of the Day or "Everything Wrong With..." video tells them is The Right Opinion. It's f*cking sick.

Don't worry Cylons, I knew you were generalizing. Even then, factually, it's a grievously false statement. Lots of people liked it; lots of people won't admit they like it now, which is completely different, and stupid.

[CyberCubed]

People like Batman because he takes tragedy into his own hands and trys to make the world a better place. Since he has no powers he is mortal and realistic and his Bruce Wayne persona is what every man wants to be, a millionaire with endless women.

That and Batman has cool gadgets, Batmobile, and punches criminals.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Meanwhile, "nobody" liked Returns. $400 million (which, pre-"Avengers", was fairly huge). #1 DVD and Blu-ray when it came out and one of the top-selling that whole year. From Wikipedia: Superman Returns was a box office success, receiving positive reviews from critics praising its story, visual effects and style. Even as a broad generalization type of statement... the math doesn't add up. It was a big picture and lots of people liked it.

Until The Internet told them not to and everyone started gradually submitting to The Spin. The f*cking internet ruins everything; it erases people's actual opinions and replaces them with some "consensus" made up of whatever the "clever" Meme of the Day or "Everything Wrong With..." video tells them is The Right Opinion. It's f*cking sick.

Don't worry Cylons, I knew you were generalizing. Even then, factually, it's a grievously false statement. Lots of people liked it; lots of people won't admit they like it now, which is completely different, and stupid.

You actually inspire curiosity within me, old chap... perhaps I shall pluck a copy of this blacklisted CBM out of the dollar DVD bin at Walmart and give it the ol' eyeball once-over. After all, I like a handful of movies you guys would probably crucify me for. (And no, Leon the Professional ain't one of them. Hell no!) Sorry, had to keep that thread alive. It still cracks me up, continually eliciting amused WTF's whenever I remember it.

Anyway... if X-Men Origins: Wolverine can have shining moments of badass Sabretooth, who's to say I won't like Superman Returns?

... Dammit, I didn't want to namedrop that movie. Now I'm gonna have to repent in sackcloth and ashes before you guys beat me to death with Halloween strap-on plastic Wolverine claws.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

People like Batman because he takes tragedy into his own hands and trys to make the world a better place. Since he has no powers he is mortal and realistic and his Bruce Wayne persona is what every man wants to be, a millionaire with endless women.

That and Batman has cool gadgets, Batmobile, and punches criminals.

To be read as: Bruce Wayne reacts to "tragedy" in the same manner a frightened, angry, spoiled child would and does. True, there's a huge heroic angle to who he is and what he does. But underneath all of it, he's an angry child acting out, and that's the prime motivation for everything he does and is.

I mean, even the comics point this out, constantly. Characters constantly remind Bruce that he has enough money to start his own country, and instead of trying to cure AIDS or feed the hungry or house the homeless - we've repeatedly seen, he actually IS rich enough to at least make a dent in even the most serious social justice problems... guy built himself a f*cking satellite - he spends all his money on "Those Wonderful Toys" and beating the crap out of people it's way too late to save. And since storylines dictate that all of those bad guys eventually escape to sell more comics and more merchandise, he's not even really "saving" anyone, or doing all that much good! He merely perpetuates an endless cycle of violence that he doesn't even really try to escape from or put an end to. How much positive impact he has on his world is constantly up for debate, and it could go on forever.

I forget who, but someone really put him in his place in a comic from like, ten years ago. I forget who, and the exact quote, but it was something like, "A LOT of people lose their parents, Bruce... they don't all try and cope by jumping off rooftops and beating up poor people."

But again, society sees itself reflected in this guy. Yay? I'm not sure that's a Yay.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

You actually inspire curiosity within me, old chap... perhaps I shall pluck a copy of this blacklisted CBM out of the dollar DVD bin at Walmart and give it the ol' eyeball once-over. After all, I like a handful of movies you guys would probably crucify me for. (And no, Leon the Professional ain't one of them. Hell no!) Sorry, had to keep that thread alive. It still cracks me up, continually eliciting amused WTF's whenever I remember it.

Anyway... if X-Men Origins: Wolverine can have shining moments of badass Sabretooth, who's to say I won't like Superman Returns?

A lot of the criticisms are valid, just overblown. It's really long, extremely talky for a super-hero flick, and the middle section drags under the weight of all the character stuff. To me, none of that RUINS the movie like some people swear it does. I'm still waiting for a live-action super-hero scene that's more on-point and just plain terrific than the plane-saving scene. It also has a sense of humor and fun about itself that, much as I can like and defend the movie, Man of Steel clearly did not have. Beyond that, the colors, cinematography and the music are just plain amazing. I can see why some people might think it's kind of a slog and too much of a Valentine to the first flick, but so much of it just sizzles and pops and does just so much right. It actually fixes a ton of mistakes the Reeve film made, and avoids a ton that Man of Steel made.

It's good. To me, it's great, but I swear anyone who says it's not at all even Good just has an agenda.

[CyberCubed]

Gotham would be a lot worse if Bruce didn't do what he does. Aren't there several stories where he actually tries to give up the cape and "retire" from being Batman just to see if crime would go down? And yet the same criminals continue to kill and steal so he has to don the costume again.

And this is on top of the fact that Batman has also saved the entire world several times, especially in all the Justice League team up stories. Hell Batman saves the entire UNIVERSE and time itself in some stories. Batman is literally the savior of the entire universe.

[Leo656]

Like, a couple times versus the couple hundred thousand times Superman did it? Wait, it was Batman that knocked Imperiex and Brainiac 13 back to the beginning of the universe and triggered the Big Bang? You mean it was Batman that destroyed Darkseid's ethereal form, stopped Mandrakk the Dark Monitor and used the Miracle Machine to rebuild the entire infinite Multiverse during Final Crisis? Cuz I could'a sworn that was all Superman that did that. This is fun. We could keep this going forever.

Dude, I love Batman. But the dude's broken; anybody who would really want to trade places with him would also have to inherit all his baggage, and the dude's perpetually unhappy. Why would anyone want that for himself, really? That's the point I was making. That's why it makes no sense when people say they can relate more or would want to be Batman. I can see it, but it's not necessarily something anyone should aspire to.

To your question, I can't recall any scenarios like the ones you put forth but I haven't read every single Batman story like I mostly have with Superman. I mean there was the time after he came back and beat up Bane that he almost gave it to Dick for a while, the "Prodigal" storyline, but that wasn't really supposed to be a permanent thing. I honestly forget what was going on with that, it's been forever since I read it.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

People like Batman because he and punches criminals.

That's the part that blows. It's elitist, folks who think that "criminals" exist.

People only rob banks and steal because they're "evil". They never commit crimes out of necessity or circumstance. They're faceless nameless "thugs" who should be taught a lesson by a guy with more money than brains.

Billionaires don't amass wealth by being swell folks. The world doesn't work that way.

People love Batman because he's vengeful and Batman gives them permission to live out revenge fantasy by proxy. It's the same reason everyone cheers when the Hulk trounces Loki in Avengers. The vindictive 5 year old in us gets it's wish.

Superman on the other hand, shows more restraint. Today though, that's not good enough for John Q Beercan. They're sick of "taking it" and want vengeance. This of course goes hand in hand with millennial entitlement, so no real surprise there. Kids today don't slug it out at a crappy job flipping burgers - they have a start up. They have a kickstarter/blog/vlog/blah blah. They 're making a living without leaving the house. They're all going to be baby billionaires - they're all on track to Bruce Wayne.

It's a different time.

EDIT: sorry Leo, didn't read you last two posts...covering the same ground. Appologies

[Slade]

I'm loving reading this. Now if only the rest of the world would wake the f*ck up and realize this stuff too.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Gotham would be a lot worse if Bruce didn't do what he does. Aren't there several stories where he actually tries to give up the cape and "retire" from being Batman just to see if crime would go down? And yet the same criminals continue to kill and steal so he has to don the costume again.

Yeah, but maybe, just maybe If he spent more time as Bruce Wayne, working to redistribute his personal wealth, and less time flying his bat plane, Gotham wouldn't need or want Batman.

Economics are at the heart of most of the worlds problems, while overzealous cops (Batman) who take it upon themselves to dish out justice, are a growing problem, not a solution.

I rest my case, Batman is an billionaire A$$hole, not a hero. He's clearly not the worlds greatest detective either, seeing as he's never figured any of this out.

[CyberCubed]

People who rob banks and kill people are criminals. Who cares if they are hungry or poor? Tell them to suck it up.

Batman deserves to smash their faces in, break their bones, and leave them unconcious for the police. I wish Batman were real to clean up all the gangster scum in New York and the criminal filth. The world needs a Batman.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

People who rob banks and kill people are criminals. Who cares if they are hungry or poor? Tell them to suck it up.

Batman deserves to smash their faces in, break their bones, and leave them unconcious for the police. I wish Batman were real to clean up all the gangster scum in New York and the criminal filth. The world needs a Batman.

lol. Do you live in a comicbook? Gangster scum and criminal filth?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

lol. Do you live in a comicbook? Gangster scum and criminal filth?

You watch your damned mouth, pal, or he'll sock you in the teeth with a kevlar gauntlet. He is justice, he is the night... he is CyberCubed.

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

You watch your damned mouth, pal, or he'll sock you in the teeth with a kevlar gauntlet. He is justice, he is the night... he is CyberCubed.

Sweet jesus. I got under cubed's skin. I think that get's me a prize.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

lol. Do you live in a comicbook? Gangster scum and criminal filth?

Lol, it certainly isn't our reality.

[CyberCubed]

The criminals in Batman's universe deserve to have their faces smashed into the pavement and beaten to a bloody pulp. Its Batman's no-kill policy that they keep getting out of jail and Arkham and then come out to do the same thing over and over again.

If Batman really was nuts, he would have killed Joker, Scarecrow, Penguin, Two-Face, etc. all after their first encounter so he could be done with them. He doesn't, so then they all keep getting out and causing more chaos over and over again.

It would be the same for real life. All those gang bangers and criminal scum that infest the underworld of our fine city should be dealt with. If you actually bother to look up crime statistics each year you would see how often this happens and its sickening. Criminal scum deserve no mercy.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The criminals in Batman's universe deserve to have their faces smashed into the pavement and beaten to a bloody pulp. Its Batman's no-kill policy that they keep getting out of jail and Arkham and then come out to do the same thing over and over again.

If Batman really was nuts, he would have killed Joker, Scarecrow, Penguin, Two-Face, etc. all after their first encounter so he could be done with them. He doesn't, so then they all keep getting out and causing more chaos over and over again.

It would be the same for real life. All those gang bangers and criminal scum that infest the underworld of our fine city should be dealt with. If you actually bother to look up crime statistics each year you would see how often this happens and its sickening. Criminal scum deserve no mercy.

If Batman were any kind of hero, he wouldn't have a rogues gallery anymore. So you want NYC to have some sort of vigilante who allows mass-murderers to live? Batman as he is just does not fit in the real world... the analogy breaks down very quickly.

[chrisdude]

Plus, if he were real, he would probably wear his knees out. And what fun is that?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by chrisdude

Plus, if he were real, he would probably wear his knees out. And what fun is that?

For real, chrisdude... the cartilage would be totally gone.

[CyberCubed]

I always wondered why Batman doesn't cover his chin. Like his whole armor can be bullet proof but one shot with a gun in the chin and he's done.