Has Anyone Started to Regret that Karai is Miwa?

[Luckyday]

After going through three seasons, has anyone started to regret that Karai is Miwa?

Don't get me wrong. It's a really cool idea but boy does it ever suffer in execution when it's done in a long running series format like this one and not to mention run by people who are never sure themselves on when to end the series, because most likely, they're on a very short leash from the head executives of nickelodeon.

Maybe it was way too early for Splinter to recognized Miwa? At this point, they are really going have to start rewriting some outlines and start seriously thinking on "What will happen next after character X get character Y" rather making a bunch of road blocks before the roadblocks themselves start to look completely stupid in nature and save it from DarknessInducedAudienceApathyor else it's going to end up being the next big thing that fans collectively hate as a group like the infamous love triangle between April, Donnie, and Casey.

[CyberCubed]

No, it was the best new idea from the series.

[Powder]

Not at all. I just wish the mutation thing had been fleeting rather than drawn out.

[victory_angel]

There is still drama and conflict to be brought about with this concept.

Such now Splinter's gone, how she would be once the Turtles are able to encounter her again. It's a little too easy to assume she is free since she coughed up that one worm.

Particularly since we see more worms getting injected into her brain, so it is plausible that she would be wanting to get vengeance on the Turtles and Co. But also wanting vengeance on the Shredder for controlling her and killing Splinter before she had the chance to.

And when Karai is finally free, she will need to learn to accept the Turtles as her family and adjust to the fact both her Mother and Father are gone and she never truly had the chance to know who they were.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

There is still drama and conflict to be brought about with this concept.

Such now Splinter's gone, how she would be once the Turtles are able to encounter her again. It's a little too easy to assume she is free since she coughed up that one worm.

Particularly since we see more worms getting injected into her brain, so it is plausible that she would be wanting to get vengeance on the Turtles and Co. But also wanting vengeance on the Shredder for controlling her and killing Splinter before she had the chance to.

And when Karai is finally free, she will need to learn to accept the Turtles as her family and adjust to the fact both her Mother and Father are gone and she never truly had the chance to know who they were.

Honestly, I really do like that your direction with her but I can't see the show doing something like that unless her "adjusting and learning to accept the turtles" is more like her hunting them down like animals, in which case a rehash of the couple of Karai episodes that we have already seen like "The Deadly Venom" and "The Fourfold Trap".

How much faith do you have in the writers at this point do just that on what you have describe and not just leave at "they reunited as a family and live happily ever after"?

How likely is that they go in the opposite direction on what you have said?

[victory_angel]

Originally Posted by Luckyday

Honestly, I really do like that your direction with her but I can't see the show doing something like that unless her "adjusting and learning to accept the turtles" is more like her hunting them down like animals, in which case a rehash of the couple of Karai episodes that we have already seen like "The Deadly Venom" and "The Fourfold Trap".

How much faith do you have in the writers at this point do just that on what you have describe and not just leave at "they reunited as a family and live happily ever after"?

How likely is that they go in the opposite direction on what you have said?

I don't think they would come to that conclusion. Karai has said herself that her life has been nothing but a quest for vengeance. And even if they do get her back to who she had been before she was brainwashed, it's not going to be happily ever after from there. She is going to want to be away from her brothers so she can sort things out for herself, but she will appear as an ally and maybe assist April with her Kunoichi training. But she knows the Turtles would find a place for her when she feels she's ready, and that is how her character arc will end.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by victory_angel

I don't think they would come to that conclusion. Karai has said herself that her life has been nothing but a quest for vengeance. And even if they do get her back to who she had been before she was brainwashed, it's not going to be happily ever after from there. She is going to want to be away from her brothers so she can sort things out for herself, but she will appear as an ally and maybe assist April with her Kunoichi training. But she knows the Turtles would find a place for her when she feels she's ready, and that is how her character arc will end.

I can agree that there probably won't be much of an happy ending but I still think that there won't be much a character arc that we will see in the future either. Maybe a letter, phone call or maybe cameo appearance but that's much of a equivalent of throwing a bone at us.

[Avatar Yuffie]

Yeah, the writers put themselves into a corner with that. When she became a mutant, I was shaking my head that they need to resort themselves with that plot twist.

[Candy Kappa]

Personally, I'd prefer Karai and Miwa to be two separate characters. But done is done.

[ssjup81]

Nope, not really. Got us some interesting backstory which is a bit tragic for all the parties involved.

[drgon78]

No that was one of the better ideas. Though I wish her mutation hasn't lasted so long.

[ToTheNines]

I've always regretted it. I like Karai better as head of the Foot, barely related to Saki if at all.

I think the concept of Yoshi's daughter being taken is great and even more dramatic than just Shen being murdered, I just wish the Nick show made her an original character or used Pimiko. Thus saving Karai for a more Mirage-esque role.

[GoldMutant]

Allow me to quote something I wrote from the criticism thread a while back:

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

A major problem I have with the show is an episode being self-contained or something that has potential that ultimately becomes lost. In this case, it's the Karai-Splinter-Shredder triangle conflict that's angered me. Other stories that are coming to mind are the lack of follow up with Mutagen Man and the failure to capitalize on the feuds Raphael has had. However, with how the mind-control story is going down, I want to address this storyline.

Originally, it had potential with the set up having Zorro written all over it. The story would have an emotional impact on Splinter and Leonardo, but it's never followed up in a good way. Most of Karai's stories have become pretentious and one dimensional, with very little reward. By that, whenever something is built up in the episode, it usually leads to disappointment in the end. Not only is Karai a plot driver, her story just has nothing going for it.

When she mutated in the climax of Vengeance is Mine, it seemed something would be going down. However, it is not built on at all due to the Northampton arc and the primary focus on the Kraang. She has taken a major backseat and rarely gets any development as a character. All it's doing is waiting until the inevitable where she is still with Shredder.

As nothing more than a plot than an actual character at times, it's problematic for fans of the character and those who saw this story with potential. She's going to suffer more just to beat a dead horse. It's extremely frustrating and downright disappointing for a character that has promise.

This sums up my thoughts on Karai in the show based on season 3 back when Deadly Venom was about to air, and my thoughts are identical from before. Even though free in The Fourfold Trap, she's becoming a lost cause, just as bad if not worse than Timothy as Mutagen Man. By that, I mean her plot has potential, but is never capitalized on due to all other plot points such as Kraang, Shredder, and now the Triceratons. Though her plot is finally getting progression, it just feels off to me personally as she almost feels like a plot driven character, not an actual one following her mutation.

I don't regret her being Splinter's daughter as it is a welcome addition to the franchise being redone throughout the years. However, I am annoyed of her predicament, which is disappointing due to her being one of the best written characters of the show by far. Once the series ends, it's up for debate, but for now I'm just annoyed of her situation not getting clear conclusions.

[IndigoErth]

No, but with a long line of space-themed episodes coming, I wish it would have wrapped up by now with them getting her back and perhaps sending her home to Japan to live with extended family for the rest of her youth and try to get a normal life and future ahead of her.

I suppose with the fate of the Earth unknown it's not supposed to matter anymore for the time being, but that sorta sucks.

[Garfield]

Regret!? It wasn't my decision.

But I don't care for it, not because its bad or wrong or anything like that. Just tired of Karai having to be related to Shredder. I just would rather see Karai in another avenues.

[Luckyday]

I just think that maybe they could kept in a dark until maybe another season but then I remember how in Naruto how everybody in the fandom knew that the Fourth Hokage was Nartuo's dad very early or more like midway through in part 1 and that when they revealed like 300 chapters later, the response from the fandom was largely negative because it was too obvious and would've better if it was a complete red herring of no "Nope his relationship with the Fourth Hokage isn't as straight forward of him being his dad".

The only reason I think it should have been kept in the dark because her role as character in the show is mostly the same, which to antagonized the turtles. The only thing that have truly change is the context of her actions and while the only thing that I can still somewhat appreciate it because it makes me care about her more then her being just simply Shredder's "rebellious daughter that secretly wants his sadistic approval" but I don't how long that feeling will last until she becomes one of the many the things in this show that I have stop caring about all together like Donnie's relationship with April or even Mutagen Man.

Her being Miwa almost makes her look like a modern tragic hero in my opinion because instead battle against the fates or gods like other classics tragic heroes in Shakespeare's plays or greek tragedies like Oedipus Rex, she battling against what she been raise on her entire life.

In hands of a better writer, it makes for a character that is both intriguing and relatable but with this ****ing show, it really proves that an awesome original idea can fall hard in execution.

[Foombamaroom]

I honestly think her mutation was too early, given the way they continue to handle it.

[BabyTurtles]

I rather Karai and Miwa be separate.

Karai was awesome when she didn't let her identity sway her.

I liked Karai being the conniving and rebellious daughter of Shredder to be honest...or better yet let her be a ninja for hire and not be connected to both Splinter or Shredder.

[Luckyday]

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

I rather Karai and Miwa be separate.

Karai was awesome when she didn't let her identity sway her.

I liked Karai being the conniving and rebellious daughter of Shredder to be honest...or better yet let her be a ninja for hire and not be connected to both Splinter or Shredder.

In another version of TMNT...no but in a Sunday morning cartoon show? Yes.

This show can't handle complex characters and writing.

[Meliwen]

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

This sums up my thoughts on Karai in the show based on season 3 back when Deadly Venom was about to air, and my thoughts are identical from before. Even though free in The Fourfold Trap, she's becoming a lost cause, just as bad if not worse than Timothy as Mutagen Man. By that, I mean her plot has potential, but is never capitalized on due to all other plot points such as Kraang, Shredder, and now the Triceratons. Though her plot is finally getting progression, it just feels off to me personally as she almost feels like a plot driven character, not an actual one following her mutation.

I don't regret her being Splinter's daughter as it is a welcome addition to the franchise being redone throughout the years. However, I am annoyed of her predicament, which is disappointing due to her being one of the best written characters of the show by far. Once the series ends, it's up for debate, but for now I'm just annoyed of her situation not getting clear conclusions.

I agree completely. I like her being Miwa, but my biggest problem with it recently is how everything about her serves as character growth for everyone except Karai herself. It's too drawn out, doesn't satisfactorily do anything much for her own character and it's kind of repetitive.

First she was an enemy to the turtles, then she lost her mind to her mutation and was unable to act of her own accord, and then she's captured by Shredder and is once again an enemy to the turtles and cannot act of her own free will. It feels like it's retreading old ground and none of it feels like it adds anything of value to her own character; all she's been good for the entire season is to give the others something to fight over.

I'd have liked either to have the mutation either happen later, or to have it ended sooner.