Official TMNT 2 Discussion

[TheJ-manTurtleMan]

Originally Posted by Bry

Okay. I said the same in another thread, but it bears repeating:

I "get" why the PD team is trying to throw Liebesman under the bus, because they're all covering their own asses and he's an easy scapegoat. But that's just them trying to frame their own narrative and dodge responsibility for a movie that disappointed a lot of people. Don't buy it -- that movie's problems stemmed from every single step of the creative process, starting long before he was hired. As bad a job as he did (and he did a terrible job), it's not all on Liebesman, not by a long shot. He was cherry-picked for the job by the people in charge for very specific reasons. And everyone else who dropped the ball last time is still involved in this one.

True. I don't doubt any of that. However I do feel that the actors comments about this new film seem more sincere this time around. And it was the interviewer that pick up on thier discomfort when talking about Liebesman, not just them out rightly saying it. But don't you think that they may have a clearer path of what movie they should write, film, and turn out, now that they know what not to do?

[Bry]

Originally Posted by TheJ-manTurtleMan

True. I don't doubt any of that. However I do feel that the actors comments about this new film seem more sincere this time around. And it was the interviewer that pick up on thier discomfort when talking about Liebesman, not just them out rightly saying it. But don't you think that they may have a clearer path of what movie they should write, film, and turn out, now that they know what not to do?

It's certainly possible, but all of the same actors were every bit as positive and enthusiastic when talking up the last movie, so I don't see how anyone can take this kind of thing at face value. Ultimately promoting the movie is part of their job, the same as it was on the last movie, so there's no solid reason to believe this will be any better based on their word alone.

And honestly... these kind of press events are very controlled. Every one of these write-ups has been very similar, and that's because they were planned that way. They're promotional tools, commercials, that's it. That's how the business works.

[Xav]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Amell is a guy trying to move up from TV acting into movie acting; he's already known as a guy who does comic book characters (specifically vigilantes) and TMNT 2 is a very small-scale CBM. It's not surprising they chose him.

Wait what comic book vigilantes has Amel played besides Arrow?

[Leo656]

If I'm not mistaken, Liebsman was the one who originally went to make a more serious movie before Bay got involved and forced them to turn it into an ultra-stupid comedy way after they'd already filmed most of it. Say what you want about how bad the final product was, or how big a fan he was or wasn't, or how well he did or didn't know the property... at least he was kind of on the right track in the very beginning, if only in that he seemed to want a slightly darker film that had more emphasis on ninjas doing ninja things, and less on goofy Bayhem bullsh*t. It's... "interesting" that they're basically saying, "Making even the slightest attempt to treat TMNT as anything serious is a huge misstep, and we will NOT be making that mistake again. We know what people want."

In other words, "Stupid Works. Stupid Sells. We're Going With Stupid. Again."

I'm not at ALL pleased that it seems like they're really doubling-down on everything bad. That elevator scene in the first one... is the f*cking DUMBEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN and I can't understand WHAT the F*CK is supposed to be so FUNNY. So calling it "everyone's favorite scene" and saying, basically, "We want the whole thing to be like that"... oh my God, this is so not what I want at all.

It's like once again, they're building it from the ground up to see if they can murder me remotely without leaving any fingerprints. Why is pissing ME off so damn important, movie?

[TheJ-manTurtleMan]

Originally Posted by Bry

It's certainly possible, but all of the same actors were every bit as positive and enthusiastic when talking up the last movie, so I don't see how anyone can take this kind of thing at face value. Ultimately promoting the movie is part of their job, the same as it was on the last movie, so there's no solid reason to believe this will be any better based on their word alone.

And honestly... these kind of press events are very controlled. Every one of these write-ups has been very similar, and that's because they were planned that way. They're promotional tools, commercials, that's it. That's how the business works.

Yeah, deep down I know that to be true. It's the unfortunate truth that optimistic fan boys like don't want to admit; money makes the world go round and can get people to say certain things. Oh well ignorance is bliss I guess. But even after knowing that, I'll still hold on to my hopeful optimism. I am really excited to see this movie!

[shredder orokusaki]

The trailer was awesome! And this time with Stockman Bebop and Rocksteady in my side the movie will be much better than the previous one.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by shredder orokusaki

The trailer was awesome! And this time with Stockman Bebop and Rocksteady in my side the movie will be much better than the previous one.

If you're gonna do this moronic roleplaying, at least stick to one version of the Shredder. You can't be all of them at once.

[Etsyturtle2]

Originally Posted by Powder

If you're gonna do this moronic roleplaying, at least stick to one version of the Shredder. You can't be all of them at once.

But what if he is?

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Hey, I didn't write it, I just thought it was amusing.

Betcha Sheamus wouldn't find it so funny...just sayin...

[Commenter 42]

Originally Posted by Bry

Okay. I said the same in another thread, but it bears repeating:

I "get" why the PD team is trying to throw Liebesman under the bus, because they're all covering their own asses and he's an easy scapegoat. But that's just them trying to frame their own narrative and dodge responsibility for a movie that disappointed a lot of people. Don't buy it -- that movie's problems stemmed from every single step of the creative process, starting long before he was hired. As bad a job as he did (and he did a terrible job), it's not all on Liebesman, not by a long shot. He was cherry-picked for the job by the people in charge for very specific reasons. And everyone else who dropped the ball last time is still involved in this one.

Naw, no bloody way...

Liebseman wasn't interested in the material at all. He didn't bring it, he just facilitated the making of it.

If you're teaching a 4th grade class you either have control over the students or you don't. If you become passive, it's a shitshow - and that's the reality of the first one.

Then Bay came in and tried to Bay it up, which compounded the problem. Like adding whipped cream and sparklers to a burnt steak.

I'm not sure I agree withe the "it's not moody and dark enough, needs more angst and anger" sentiment...I think we're getting enough with the over the top shitfest BVS frankly - It's not what the public expects from TMNT...YET.

Gonna take a whole lotta horses to turn the cart, and bring it back to it's roots.

But Liebseman is a terrible director, with nothing good to his name, so yeah, he can be sacrificed, cause f*ck that guy.

It's like I said before, if you're going to do FW, just do FW. The biggest sin of the first one was that it didn't know what it was, and it didn't tell any sort of story, least of which one that was even remotely related to TMNT.

[graphic_content]

Originally Posted by Commenter 42

But Liebseman is a terrible director, with nothing good to his name, so yeah, he can be sacrificed, cause f*ck that guy.

It's like I said before, if you're going to do FW, just do FW. The biggest sin of the first one was that it didn't know what it was, and it didn't tell any sort of story, least of which one that was even remotely related to TMNT.

This made me laugh.

And they seem to be going full FW OT this time around. Ive listened to alot of reactions and read a bunch of comments where people are saying that they are really just owning the silliness of it all, and apologetically leaning into it, to good effect. The cast was quoted saying that they shot multiple versions of the first film, never really knowing what they were going for, and while I hate to throw one guy under a bus, steering the damn vehicle is a director's job. I stand by the fact that the first one had good moments, BUT I'm prepared to wipe it from my memory, and consider this a fresh start.

[TurtleMikey]

Originally Posted by Leo656

If I'm not mistaken, Liebsman was the one who originally went to make a more serious movie before Bay got involved and forced them to turn it into an ultra-stupid comedy way after they'd already filmed most of it. Say what you want about how bad the final product was, or how big a fan he was or wasn't, or how well he did or didn't know the property... at least he was kind of on the right track in the very beginning, if only in that he seemed to want a slightly darker film that had more emphasis on ninjas doing ninja things, and less on goofy Bayhem bullsh*t. It's... "interesting" that they're basically saying, "Making even the slightest attempt to treat TMNT as anything serious is a huge misstep, and we will NOT be making that mistake again. We know what people want."

In other words, "Stupid Works. Stupid Sells. We're Going With Stupid. Again."

I'm not at ALL pleased that it seems like they're really doubling-down on everything bad. That elevator scene in the first one... is the f*cking DUMBEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN and I can't understand WHAT the F*CK is supposed to be so FUNNY. So calling it "everyone's favorite scene" and saying, basically, "We want the whole thing to be like that"... oh my God, this is so not what I want at all.

It's like once again, they're building it from the ground up to see if they can murder me remotely without leaving any fingerprints. Why is pissing ME off so damn important, movie?

It's simple. Because the most popular iteration among the casual audience (including those who grew up with it) is the 87 version. Which was lighthearted, comedic, and didn't take itself too seriously. And as such, that's what they are going to appeal to.

Hell, even with the admittedly superior 90s films, most people (casual viewers) think of "Secret of the Ooze" when referring to those films, and stuff like "Ninja Rap" and Tokka and Rahzar, as opposed to that first film and the third.

When most people think of turtles, they don't think of the more serious iterations. And if we're being honest, the goofier iterations have worked well. That is, as long as they are intentionally going for a goofier tone.


As much as I would love another serious adaptation, in the vein of that first film, I'm totally fine with them embracing the goofier side of the franchise, and making a more Fred Wolf styled film, which people expected back in 1990 didn't get.

I understand that alot of the hardcore turtle fans don't like that series, and prefer the comics and 1990 film, but I don't get why you guys have to feel personally attacked when they try to appeal to fans of those other versions.

[IndigoErth]

Why can't we do both... Dark and gritty when they're facing their and the world's foes, but juxtapose it with lovable goofballs when they're "off the clock" and with the select people who are lucky enough to know the real them when the weapons are put away. I'm hoping that may turn out to be the case here to some extent.

[Technogeek29]

Originally Posted by TurtleMikey

It's simple. Because the most popular iteration among the casual audience (including those who grew up with it) is the 87 version. Which was lighthearted, comedic, and didn't take itself too seriously. And as such, that's what they are going to appeal to.

Hell, even with the admittedly superior 90s films, most people (casual viewers) think of "Secret of the Ooze" when referring to those films, and stuff like "Ninja Rap" and Tokka and Rahzar, as opposed to that first film and the third.

When most people think of turtles, they don't think of the more serious iterations. And if we're being honest, the goofier iterations have worked well. That is, as long as they are intentionally going for a goofier tone.


As much as I would love another serious adaptation, in the vein of that first film, I'm totally fine with them embracing the goofier side of the franchise, and making a more Fred Wolf styled film, which people expected back in 1990 didn't get.

I understand that alot of the hardcore turtle fans don't like that series, and prefer the comics and 1990 film, but I don't get why you guys have to feel personally attacked when they try to appeal to fans of those other versions.

If you honestly think Fred Wolf hasn't been catered to then you've been living in a bubble.

[ranger_scout]

In the past two days the trailer has reached 7 million views on the official channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeaugHGd1Kw

That is a very quick amount of time to accomplish that, especially compared to 4 million views that Alice Through the Looking Glass, which opens a week prior, reached in its first month on Disney Movie's official channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiEG3Zr_Jxs

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by ranger_scout

In the past two days the trailer has reached 7 million views on the official channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeaugHGd1Kw

That is a very quick amount of time to accomplish that, especially compared to 4 million views that Alice Through the Looking Glass, which opens a week prior, reached in its first month on Disney Movie's official channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiEG3Zr_Jxs

It goes to show that TMNT is bigger then Alice, and that film is also a sequel.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by TurtleMikey

It's simple. Because the most popular iteration among the casual audience (including those who grew up with it) is the 87 version. Which was lighthearted, comedic, and didn't take itself too seriously. And as such, that's what they are going to appeal to.

Hell, even with the admittedly superior 90s films, most people (casual viewers) think of "Secret of the Ooze" when referring to those films, and stuff like "Ninja Rap" and Tokka and Rahzar, as opposed to that first film and the third.

When most people think of turtles, they don't think of the more serious iterations. And if we're being honest, the goofier iterations have worked well. That is, as long as they are intentionally going for a goofier tone.


As much as I would love another serious adaptation, in the vein of that first film, I'm totally fine with them embracing the goofier side of the franchise, and making a more Fred Wolf styled film, which people expected back in 1990 didn't get.

I understand that alot of the hardcore turtle fans don't like that series, and prefer the comics and 1990 film, but I don't get why you guys have to feel personally attacked when they try to appeal to fans of those other versions.

Because people who AREN'T overgrown little kids deserve to have nice things too. There's a whole ton of depth to the stories and characters in the TMNT universe that are NEVER going to be adequately explored so long as everyone tries to keep dragging the franchise back to 1987. It's not 1987. I'm not a little kid. I've sat through 8000 "goofy" versions of f*cking Ninja Turtles already, I want something with more sophistication and depth, not another cartoon. And I'm not the only one who feels that way.

But you're right. To most of the world, TMNT is nothing but "Simple Things For Simple Minds," and because of that insipid cartoon show it's never going to change. I don't like that and I don't want it to be that way. But, it is what it is. Nobody cares about 2K3. Nobody cares about Mirage, or the 1990 movie. You're right, TMNT doesn't "work" for the majority, unless it's excessively stupid and crammed full of pizza jokes and bad one-liners. It's always been trash in the eyes of the mainstream, thus, trash is what it should stay, because most people are simpletons.

You're right that that's the way it is. But I'll never be happy with it. People who want to see more depth and sophisticated stories in the TMNT universe shouldn't have to just make do with a comic book nobody reads. That isn't fair. You can do a LOT of great things with TMNT, tell a lot of really great stories, and they're never going to, because of that god DAMNED cartoon show that people won't let rot in the past where it belongs.

If they wanted to make a stupid, silly, FW-based TMNT movie, that time was 1991. We SHOULD be in the more "modern, sophisticated" era of TMNT, like what Burton or Nolan did with Batman, treating the franchise seriously and bringing respect to it, in SPITE of all the goofy nonsense that came before. Is it that hard to remember how when Burton was doing Batman, everyone told him "You can't play it straight, it's impossible, it's just goofy junk for kids", and he went ahead and made a movie that's near-universally beloved to this day? All because he REFUSED to be shackled to past mistakes, even if they were popular mistakes.

That's what we should be seeing now with TMNT. Evolution. Not clinging to ancient history that was NEVER very good to begin with. F*ck that goddamn cartoon show, and double-f*ck anyone who thinks THAT is the best version of TMNT that all others should be compared to and based off of. Those people should NOT be setting any kind of standards of taste, I'm sorry.

I used to love the FW TMNT. Used to. Now... I honestly hate it. I HATE it. I hate it for what it represents, that TMNT can never, EVER be more than a joke, something people roll their eyes at and snicker when they find out you're still into it past a certain age. I hate it because of how it keeps the TMNT franchise in a little tiny box in people's minds, when it can be every bit as sophisticated as Batman or Superman or anything else, and people would still like it, as long as it was handled well. I hate it because people think that's the "right" way to do TMNT, and I'm sorry, it's not.

Like I said elsewhere, I think I've outgrown this entire franchise.

[TurtleTitan97]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

It goes to show that TMNT is bigger then Alice, and that film is also a sequel.

That really isn't much of an accomplishment, y'know.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Because people who AREN'T overgrown little kids deserve to have nice things too. There's a whole ton of depth to the stories and characters in the TMNT universe that are NEVER going to be adequately explored so long as everyone tries to keep dragging the franchise back to 1987.

I used to love the FW TMNT. Used to. Now... I honestly hate it. I HATE it. I hate it for what it represents, that TMNT can never, EVER be more than a joke, something people roll their eyes at and snicker when they find out you're still into it past a certain age. I hate it because of how it keeps the TMNT franchise in a little tiny box in people's minds, when it can be every bit as sophisticated as Batman or Superman or anything else, and people would still like it, as long as it was handled well. I hate it because people think that's the "right" way to do TMNT, and I'm sorry, it's not.

Like I said elsewhere, I think I've outgrown this entire franchise.

I've grown to despise Fred Wolf TMNT for the exact same reason; begrudging tolerance for launching TMNT into the spotlight long ago faded into realization that the franchise would also forever be shackled to those damned idiotic cartoons.

But Leo, I'll say it again: READ THE IDW COMICS. IT'S THE ONLY WORTHWHILE PART OF THE TMNT FRANCHISE GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

[NinjaPug]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

It goes to show that TMNT is bigger then Alice, and that film is also a sequel.

I wouldn't go that far considering the first Alice made over $1 billion at the box office.