Star Wars Episode 7

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by Krutch

I'm not arguing it doesn't make sense that she can. My issue with her is she has no flaws. She always has the skill set needed for every scenerio: She's an ace pilot, a competent fighter, a savvy tech, street smart, shows compassion to towards droids, gorgeous, and by the end of the movie, pretty damn force strong. She's too perfect that it releases the tension of any scene she's in. Even when she's tied up in restraints, she resists mind control, turns the table on the main villain, gets the idea that she can force-convince someones mind and walks out the door.

...And I'm not so sure that scavenging and understanding technology really correlate to each other. I can go dumpster diving at junkyards every day and never understand how a car works. I may learn what parts are more valuable, though.

Yeah, I can see that. I think that's an issue with a lot of fictional characters in stories like this. And yeah, I'm just spit balling ideas about why it's possible she would understand some of these things. In the end they could come up with some bullsh*t plot point to explain any of it away, so it doesn't really matter. I do agree that it was weird she had no character flaws, but it also didn't exactly bother me.

Actually, he was able to pull the info from Poe no problem. Also was able to stop and hold a blaster shot for minutes while also interrogating someone.

Sure, but those are two entirely different situations from Rey's interrogation for any number of reasons. I get what you're saying though.

Considering she thought Luke Skywalker and the Jedi were all a myth I'm going to guess she was never taught the ways of the force.

Yeah, I forgot that conversation even happened. I still need to see it a few more times to get my mind straight with all of it.

I agree. Again, my issue isn't that she can do this stuff, its that she can already do this. Especially against someone who has been trained exclusively on using a lightsaber. By Luke Skywalker himself, I might add.

...And understanding how to use a bo staff is not the same as using a sword.

I guess. What I was really getting at is that she isn't exactly getting into a fight for the first time, nor is she fighting someone who has apparently had an incredible amount of experience in fighting another force user. And again, he's injured, is clearly overly emotional and seems pretty out of it all together by that point. Maybe I just don't care as much about that outcome? If we find out he had an incredible amount of training and was actually super impressive as a padawan then that may retroactively make the outcome seem like more a stretch though.

Are we? What exactly is he dealing with? What are his motivations for wanting to be on the darkside instead of the light? I understand he's on the fence. I understand he's struggling. But we don't understand why he's struggling. That's pretty damn important to the scene. Does Kylo feel like Han abandoned him when he gave him over to Luke? Did Kylo have any say in the matter? Was he just a bad apple? Maybe Han actually did something absolutely monstrous that completely justifies his resentment? Point is, we don't know, so we can't sympathize either way. For all we know Han never got him the Life Day present he wanted. Who knows?

I get it. I guess I just keep coming at all this stuff from the long term perspective. What might not be as satisfying now may turn out to be far more satisfying in retrospect. That's on me though. I think you're right that in the context of this movie it's less earned.

Umm... yes? For dramatic purposes, wouldnt it make much more sense that after severing his link to humanity, he becomes a wrathful sith lord and despite being severely wounded, still almost kills Finn and Rey? And by proximity, wouldn't that give Rey something to strive for next movie? Making sure she doesn't lose the next time? But Rey conquers all, I guess. The Resistance even sends her of all people to go seek out Luke. Umm... alright.

This is one thing I don't really agree with at all. I mean, I get where you're coming from, but him being a snivelling little sh*t who kills his father in cold blood, then goes on to ultimately fail is way more interesting to me than him being your typical unstoppable villain. I understand what you're saying about Rey getting out with an unscathed victory immediately though.

No, my issues aren't that Han died or even that it didn't feel earned(which it didn't). The way the story has presented the character of Kylo Ren does not generate pathos for the scene. The only reason we really care about him at all is because he's a byproduct of characters we know and love. Theres no poetry in a character who's just a big question mark killing someone we know. Lets break down what we actually know for certain about Kylo Ren...

-He's Han and Leia's son.
-He's chosen to be on the dark side of the force for reasons unknown.
-He's conflicted with his decision to be on the dark side of the force for reasons unknown.
-He has a grudge against Han Solo for reasons unknown.
-Luke trained him and because of some unknown reason, it didn't work out.

And if you're saying its a character moment for Kylo, which I too believe it is, you can add...

-He kills his father to help him embrace his darkside. He felt he had to do this for reasons unknown.

So really, the only thing we have a clear picture of for sure, is that he's Han and Leia's son. Every single other thing is a mystery. I'm not saying this won't be fleshed out in future sequels, which I'm sure it will, but if I'm judging The Force Awakens storytelling, theres zero pathos in a character we know nothing about killing someone who we love for unclear reasons.

You see what I'm getting at here?

Yeah, I do and I agree completely with you. Again, I think this is where I'm coming at it from the long term perspective. If you look at all of this as a single movie it's far less satisfying. I tend to take the long view on this kind of stuff.

Again, I'm not trying to bash the movie. I liked it a lot, and plan on seeing it once or twice more before it leaves theatres. But it's far from perfect.

I didn't think you were and it didn't come off that way. I thought you had interesting points for sure. And yeah, it's not perfect. Nothing is perfect and nothing ever will be perfect. All your points are totally reasonable and I agree with the majority of them. Difference of view point perhaps.